My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc

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SET Man

Hey!

   First, great thread :thumb: I've been checking this on and off.

   I recently picked up a pair of K73-16 22uf 63V to be used as output cap in my DAC replacing ELNA CE-BP caps.

   So, far they sound very good by themselves after about 50hr or so on them. And definitely better than the ELNAs their replaced.

   But for the light of me I can't figure out which way to connect them. Unlike my favorite cap, the Jensen PIO Copper of which are clearly marked with a line on one side. I skimmed through all the pages here and can't seem to find anything about this for these Russian caps. Dose anyone know? :scratch:

    As for caps. All signal caps in my tubed pre and SET amps are Jensen PIO copper version. Except those in my phono stage. I have MIT PPMX(?) of which are lower end of MTX's line in there. I did tried to replace a pair with Jesen PIO copper but somehow I like those cheaper MIT better in there. Maybe it was too much fo a good thing. :lol:

    Anyway, the 22uf K73-16 sound surprisingly good despited the large  value. Since I have the .22uf Jensen left over from phono upgrade. I tried them as by pass cap on those K73-16 and the combo sound even better. So far I like them together.... but more listening will be needed to say for sure.

    Well,  if nobody have info on the K73 direction than I guess I will have to de-solder them and switch direction and see if I can hear any difference.

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

   

xecluded

The K73-16 are non-polar aren't they.  I don't think it matter which way you connect them.  I've been using them double up in power filtering supply position and they work out just great.

oncle_tom

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Opinions about StealthCaps?

Thanks,
Peter

Jon L

Opinions about StealthCaps?

Thanks,
Peter

No idea yet, but I do have some of the new VH Audio CuTF's  :eyebrows:

chrismercurio

JonL,

Thank you for your hard work in your postings on the various capacitors. I look forward to your findings on the CuTf.

Thanks!

tarquineous

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Buddy,

There is a way to electrically identify the inner foil lead from the outer foil lead, of an unmarked capacitor.

Richard Marsh, of Marsh Sound Design can tell you exactly how to do this.

He told me a couple of years ago how, but I never used the method. I listen both ways on a test rig, and mark the caps for best sound.

Basically, what you do for the test is wrap a foil around the body of the cap, and test from foil to each lead. That's all I know, so please contact him, if you want.

shep

I have enjoyed this thread very much and may have something to contribute!
http://www.audioupgrades.co.uk/audioupgrades_cap.shtml. While not strickly speaking "new caps", they are new to me and are presently residing in my CDP. I can't say anything useful about how they sound because they are running in and no doubt will take quite some time to settle down. Also my player has undergone a major up-grade, of which the caps are just a part, so it would not be very smart to stick my neck out on this subject! (and risk having it cut off at the knees). So this is just info. and nothing more.
Hmm I see this link doesn't work. I don't know why. Sorry but it's there, somewhere, somehow :duh:

poseidonsvoice

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  • Science is not a democracy - Earl Geddes
    • 2 channel/7 channel setup
I have enjoyed this thread very much and may have something to contribute!
http://www.audioupgrades.co.uk/audioupgrades_cap.shtml. While not strickly speaking "new caps", they are new to me and are presently residing in my CDP. I can't say anything useful about how they sound because they are running in and no doubt will take quite some time to settle down. Also my player has undergone a major up-grade, of which the caps are just a part, so it would not be very smart to stick my neck out on this subject! (and risk having it cut off at the knees). So this is just info. and nothing more.
Hmm I see this link doesn't work. I don't know why. Sorry but it's there, somewhere, somehow :duh:

Here is the proper link.

Best,
Anand.

shep

thanks! My head wasn't quite attached there. I will venture an observation, based on personal experience with several caps placed in several locations (here he goes into deep waters...) If I try and seperate out the audible changes going on at present in this player and assuming these particular caps are having a major influence, so far the treble is more extended and the mids very muscular, if a bit too angular for my liking, the bass so far is a bit recessed and "glued" in place instead of coming forth. If this makes any sense...they have only about 25 hours so I expect major changes to come.
While on the subject, I replaced Clarity caps in my X'overs with Jenzen superior S, some time ago and the change was very positive. Non-believers abstain!

tarquineous

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Unfortunately, J. Gordon Holt is right, in general. Also unfortunately, he didn't have the best sounding system, nor did he offer a practical scientific method for determining the sonic contribution of electrical parts and accessories.

The difference between good sounding equipment and excellent equipment, is constant refining and experimentation. This also applies to the complete audio system.

Another area where the industry went incredulous is the promotion of "perfect sound forever" from CDs.

Now look where we are!

Speakerquest

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I am a fan of Multicap RT-X as couplingcaps in tube circuits. Mundorf SiO is another contender for my favourite cap, with a smoother treble than the RT-X but still high resolving and open with a nice soundstage.

I know that many people regard the regular Mundorf Supreme as a reference quality cap (less pronounced treble than the Silver Gold), and  Intertechnik Audyn-cap Plus is said to be very similar.

Does anyone have experience of the more costly Intertechnik/Audyn caps ?
There are: Audyn-cap Reference, Audyn-cap True Silver, Audyn-cap Gold and Silver, and Audyn-cap True copper, all of which are "non-inductively wound" like the Audyn-cap plus and Mundorf Supreme.

I am thinking about trying Audyn True copper for my next project.

tarquineous

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 :thumb:

I suggest you try two or three types of the Audyn caps. My early testing of the copper exoticap by Rel dismissed my consideration for copper foil coupling caps. The Jensen copper foil in oil were better but not by much. Both were too bright and not full enough.

However, and ironically, I ended up using an oil cap bypassed with a copper foil teflon cap made by Modwright. V-cap now makes a copper foil version of their teflon caps, but I have not tried them.

The other two copper foil caps did not work like the Modwright. They both added to the sound rather than clear up the sound like the Modwright bypass.

Prior to this, I did not care for bypassing, because none of the ten or so bypass caps worked to my satisfaction.

So the bottom line is experiment, read other's tests, and keep experimenting until you are satisfied.

I'm interested to hear how the Audyns work out !

Construct

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If anyone doubts caps... they should start at the bottom.  Stock electrolytic 10% caps in a crossover and move up to just about anything. Dayton metallized film, sonicap  etc..  They all invariably sound a LOT better than electrolytics in a crossover. Not to mention, better caps do prevent image drift.

plw

Hi,  want to share my cap experience with the forum...

A couple of months ago I picked up some old Paradigm 7's from the mid 80's (Seas H253 tweeter, 8" woofer).  Because they were over 20 years old, I replaced the original cap in the crossovers (6dB/Oct) with a direct replacement generic electrolytic of the same value 4.7mfd (cost about .50).  I noticed little change in the sound other than maybe a little warmer, but wasn't sure if it was my imagination. 

Just last night removed the first replacement caps, and  installed some Clarity Cap PX 4.7mfd I got at Madisound. I really didn't expect much because I had already replaced the caps once with little change, but what a difference!!! ... the speakers sounded bright, cold, and sibilance's were terrible!  Very detailed, but not at all pleasant to listen to. 

After some reading on the subject, today I ran the speakers at mid volume for about 6 hours. Afterwards they sure seemed to have warmed up while still keeping the clarity where it is needed!  Still not perfect, but better.  Will let them run overnight and see how things are tomorrow. 

I know there is much discussion on this subject, but I am convinced that changing caps makes quite a difference, and break-in time is real.  Maybe I live in ignorant bliss, but this morning prior to break-in I was planning on putting a series resistor in the circuit to tame the tweeters with the new caps, but this evening after running the speakers all day, I am pleased with the sound, and no resistors are in the plans! 

tarquineous

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That seems to be the case. Replace the electrolytics with polypropylene, then there are flavors with different types.

One wire that I have found which tames and is somewhat fuller sounding is the Purist silver alloy. I mainly use it on tweeters. And its not horribly expensive like some speaker cables.

Copper binding posts instead of brass also reduces glare. These are small improvements that take labor time, but they add up.

Good choice with going with Madisound. They have a good selection and experience. Another is GR Research.

Be careful not to go too crazy with the project. You could have those speakers tore apart for weeks.

EthanH

Hi,  want to share my cap experience with the forum...

A couple of months ago I picked up some old Paradigm 7's from the mid 80's (Seas H253 tweeter, 8" woofer).  Because they were over 20 years old, I replaced the original cap in the crossovers (6dB/Oct) with a direct replacement generic electrolytic of the same value 4.7mfd (cost about .50).  I noticed little change in the sound other than maybe a little warmer, but wasn't sure if it was my imagination. 

Just last night removed the first replacement caps, and  installed some Clarity Cap PX 4.7mfd I got at Madisound. I really didn't expect much because I had already replaced the caps once with little change, but what a difference!!! ... the speakers sounded bright, cold, and sibilance's were terrible!  Very detailed, but not at all pleasant to listen to. 

After some reading on the subject, today I ran the speakers at mid volume for about 6 hours. Afterwards they sure seemed to have warmed up while still keeping the clarity where it is needed!  Still not perfect, but better.  Will let them run overnight and see how things are tomorrow. 

I know there is much discussion on this subject, but I am convinced that changing caps makes quite a difference, and break-in time is real.  Maybe I live in ignorant bliss, but this morning prior to break-in I was planning on putting a series resistor in the circuit to tame the tweeters with the new caps, but this evening after running the speakers all day, I am pleased with the sound, and no resistors are in the plans!

I'm no expert, but I believe that in some speakers that use electrolytics the resistance of the caps is factored into the crossover's overall design.  By replacing electrolytics with poly caps you may be altering the crossover rather than merely upgrading the quality of components, hence the bright and edgy result from the Clarity Caps. 

tarquineous

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That's a possibility. In that case you would have to measure the speaker and compensate with a higher value resistor, usually before the capacitor.

Best to check with a speaker crossover designer or the manufacturer.

plw

Thank you much for the advice all.  I am having a little fun experimenting with these older Paradigm speakers.  I was just surprised the Clarity Caps would make such a difference.  It seems to me they have calmed down quit a bit after playing them for 20 hrs, but I haven't listened to them too closely yet. 

I e-mailed Paradigm about these speakers since they are quite old, but the company had little information.  Interestingly, the serial numbers are hand-written on the back of the cabinet.


Tyson

Passive crossovers kinda suck, its better to go active (ie, you should make the same choices I made, in order to validate my choice).

tarquineous

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Active crossovers are better, but at a hell of an expense.

You need at a minimum, another stereo amp, a set of speaker cables, another set of interconnects, an electronic crossover, one more powercord, room to accommodate, and work inside the speaker to bybass the passive crossover.

You can see here $3K if you buy used equipment and inexpensive cables. If a person has a special amp that they like and more expensive cables, the cost could easily approach $6K.

Then you could go the route of WLM and buy a really good CD player-preamp-crossover which is only $10k, but is very highly rated. Then you would still need one more stereo amp and some cables.

This is a far cry from upgrading some parts on a pair of existing crossovers.

From my experience, the greatest gain for speakers is to send one of the crossovers to a company that makes crossovers, and in the mean time, add a brace to the speaker cabinet and some damping material to the inside walls. Then when the company returns your crossover, with two completely upgraded ones, install the new ones. The cost would be about 3 to $500.00.