My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 628038 times.

kyrill

Hi Steve

the new Auricap is expensive..............
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/CapacitorsFilm.html

carusoracer

Excellent thread and great writeup.
Good reading!

kyrill

nice to combine with http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm
to get triangulation in acquiring data

Jon L

nice to combine with http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm
to get triangulation in acquiring data

Triangulate?  More like quinteplate.  Just when you thought VCap Teflon can do no wrong, you can read something like this for contrarian views:
http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/caprolling/caps.html
 
Another cap comparison I mostly agree with is also here:

http://www.ecp.cc/cap-notes.html

There are others, but really, there is nothing like first-hand experience when it comes to caps  :green:

Double Ugly

nice to combine with http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm
to get triangulation in acquiring data

Triangulate?  More like quinteplate.  Just when you thought VCap Teflon can do no wrong, you can read something like this for contrarian views:
http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/caprolling/caps.html

Can't help but wonder what they'd (Supratek Cabernets) sound like with Sonicaps. 

I've always preferred Sonicap capacitors to those from Auricap, regardless of application, and the advent of the Platinum a few years ago made it a no-brainer where my equipment and dollars are concerned.

doak

Great info Jon - a real service to the "community".  :D

From what I've read the verdict on the Mundorf SIO  appears unanimous.
I'm looking forward to hearing these in my next speaker xover.

Doak

dorokusai

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 173
  • Polk Audio Customer Service
    • Polk Audio
I would have went insane after testing all that stuff. I'm happy to see you alive and thanks for the effort.

Mark

Bill Baker

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 4869
  • Musica Bella Audio - Custom Design and Manufacturi
    • Musica Bella Audio
Very nice Jon. I have been compiling similar information over the past few years but mostly for personal notes.

 As most already know, I use a lot of the Mundorf, V-Cap, SoniCap and AuriCap capacitors but have yet to experiment with the new Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil but it is going into one of our new preamp prototypes. With new products in the R&D stage, I will have to admit that what does a great job in one component may not be the best in another. You cannot simply pick a "favorite" capacitor and use it everywhere.

Double Ugly

You cannot simply pick a "favorite" capacitor and use it everywhere.

No, but as per my post above, you can pick one you don't care for anywhere.

Bill Baker

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 4869
  • Musica Bella Audio - Custom Design and Manufacturi
    • Musica Bella Audio
Quote
No, but as per my post above, you can pick one you don't care for anywhere.


 I kinda agree but when it comes to the AuriCap, I have always liked this capacitor in the past........... now introduce the SoniCap Gen II that Jeff introduced a couple years back which provides much (if not all) of the AuriCap signature but at a much lesser cost. Hmmm. No brainer? :scratch:

 Now if he only introduced the Gen II in larger 200V crossover values :drool:

 When post like this show up, I start receiving emails. I mostly receive inquiries about the SoniCap Platinum and V-Cap Teflon. My simple answer is they are both great capacitors but have different sonic signatures and I cannot tell 'you' which capacitor might be best for your application.

 Post like this are great as they provide personal insight on various comparisons in various applications as long as the reader keeps in mind that they are just that, personal opinions.

 Again, nice job Jon.

Steve

"Just when you thought VCap Teflon can do no wrong, you can read something like this for contrarian views:"

Hi Jon,

     I think you are seeing first hand, ok maybe second hand, that alot depends on the circuit design, the system used, although I have never heard anything but good with the V cap. Subtle differences in design and system used, can tilt the playing field.

Cheers Jon, and thanks for your time and efforts.
Steve
« Last Edit: 5 May 2008, 07:14 pm by Steve »

Jon L

Well, I really wanted to further compare Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil, so..

---------------------------------------------------------------

Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil





I finally did some proper comparisons between these 2 capacitors, and while they do share the musical Mundorf house sound, their differences are significant enough that one should not automatically think a system synergistic with one will be synergistic with the other.

There are some who have concluded silver/gold is "not as good" as silver/oil, but I would not agree with that conclusion.  However, they have sufficiently differing presentations and gestalt that yes, one "may" definitely prefer silver/oil in a given setup/preferences. 

One word I would use to describe the main difference is "liquidity."  While both are remarkably smooth, silver/oil has more liquidity, not enough to obscure detail but just enough to "massage" recordings that are not perfect. As a result, I am able to enjoy more percentage of my recordings through silver/oil, which liquifies a few percent of the upper-midrange/low-treble spittiness and hardness inherent in many recordings.  Because silver/oil makes this range less noticeable, the high treble/air becomes relatively more noticeable, but upon closer analysis, the silver/gold has just as much upper end extension and air. 

So once again, I still think silver/oil is the cap that most likely will have me keep listening to my (non-perfect) music collection instead of tweaking, but if your system is already leaning towards liquidity, silver/gold may be a better choice.

Jon L

Due to the generosity of AC member GBB, I now have some Russin K72 teflon caps and FT-3 teflon caps burning in.  Will report after extremely long break-in, I'm sure. 

Now if only I could get a hold of a pair of K40 oil caps  :wink:

BTW.  These Russian caps are WAY bigger and heavier in person than in eBay pics  :?

Joey B

Jon , I have several questions . Has Jupiter upgraded their line . Of the 4 capacitor shootouts that I'm aware of , 2 pan the Jupiters pretty hard , and yours and ECP's really like them . Also did you use the 1uf 600v copper lead or the silver lead (or something else altogether )?

I've read Jupiter was going to Upgrade their product with higher heat ratings and soforth but have not seen anything advertised .

Thanks
Joey B.

piedpiper

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 17
As above, thanks for the delicately written and researched review.

As much as I'm interested in caps for the tube coupling application that was your context, I also have need for very small voltage coupling in SS, say 16VDC, as well as the very different context of speakers, both of which I'm sure would reveal different results. Also curious about experiences with DynamiCaps and Duelunds.

On a totally different note, I would love to be directed to any threads about headphone comparisons used as a neutral reference for recording. I'm getting increasingly mistrustful of my Sennheiser HD 650s and Etymotic Research ER 4Ss as they seem to error on either side of the line.

Thanks again.

Jon L

On a totally different note, I would love to be directed to any threads about headphone comparisons used as a neutral reference for recording. I'm getting increasingly mistrustful of my Sennheiser HD 650s and Etymotic Research ER 4Ss as they seem to error on either side of the line.

Thanks again.

I would go do some searches here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/

For recording, you're right HD650 and Ety ER4S cannot be expected to result in neutral recordings.  For reasonable money, I would tend to go with something like older HD600 with HD650 headphone cable for less bass bloat.  For IEM's, something like Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro's have better balance.  AKG's in general are better for monitoring as well, K701 being decent for this purpose. 

Money no object, I would go with one of the top electrostat headphone systems. 

djbnh

As above, thanks for the delicately written and researched review.

As much as I'm interested in caps for the tube coupling application that was your context, I also have need for very small voltage coupling in SS, say 16VDC, as well as the very different context of speakers, both of which I'm sure would reveal different results. Also curious about experiences with DynamiCaps and Duelunds.

On a totally different note, I would love to be directed to any threads about headphone comparisons used as a neutral reference for recording. I'm getting increasingly mistrustful of my Sennheiser HD 650s and Etymotic Research ER 4Ss as they seem to error on either side of the line.

Thanks again.
I much prefer the Senn HD650s with Stefan AudioArt Equinox headphone cable. Not inexpensive but worth it IMO.

Furthermore, I recommend re-burning in your gear using the IsoTek System Enhancer CD ($32.99) - freakin' disc works like a charm, might be a significant help in getting the Senns more to your liking, speeding up the burn-in time of all those caps, etc.  The 6moons review details what it might be able to do for you; I swear by the Isotek disc.

Ray Bronk

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1599
Well, I really wanted to further compare Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil, so..

---------------------------------------------------------------

Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil





I finally did some proper comparisons between these 2 capacitors, and while they do share the musical Mundorf house sound, their differences are significant enough that one should not automatically think a system synergistic with one will be synergistic with the other.

There are some who have concluded silver/gold is "not as good" as silver/oil, but I would not agree with that conclusion.  However, they have sufficiently differing presentations and gestalt that yes, one "may" definitely prefer silver/oil in a given setup/preferences. 

One word I would use to describe the main difference is "liquidity."  While both are remarkably smooth, silver/oil has more liquidity, not enough to obscure detail but just enough to "massage" recordings that are not perfect. As a result, I am able to enjoy more percentage of my recordings through silver/oil, which liquifies a few percent of the upper-midrange/low-treble spittiness and hardness inherent in many recordings.  Because silver/oil makes this range less noticeable, the high treble/air becomes relatively more noticeable, but upon closer analysis, the silver/gold has just as much upper end extension and air. 

So once again, I still think silver/oil is the cap that most likely will have me keep listening to my (non-perfect) music collection instead of tweaking, but if your system is already leaning towards liquidity, silver/gold may be a better choice.
 

Hi john,

I am probably going to get my hands on a Transcendentsound preamp which is extremely neutral with 12AU7 tubes. So how much are these mundorfs you are talking about 1Uf with 400V or so. Probably the oil ones.

Thanks.

Ray Bronk

Jon L

I am probably going to get my hands on a Transcendentsound preamp which is extremely neutral with 12AU7 tubes. So how much are these mundorfs you are talking about 1Uf with 400V or so. Probably the oil ones.

Thanks.

Ray Bronk

The silver/oils at 1 uF are $54.57/each unfortunately.  However, Parts Connexion is having a sale right now with 15% off everything, so if you're going to buy expensive caps of any kind, now would be the time!
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/CapacitorsFilm.html

Bill Baker

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 4869
  • Musica Bella Audio - Custom Design and Manufacturi
    • Musica Bella Audio
Quote
The silver/oils at 1 uF are $54.57/each unfortunately.


 Jeff over at Sonic Craft sells the 1uF Silver/Oil for $47 ea. He is also having a clearance on the SIlver/Gold if you want to spend a little more ($73 ea.)

http://www.soniccraft.com/mundorf_capacitors.htm