[BrassEar]

I saw DCX screen before where you can introduce delays. In theory one just measure the distance between woofer and tweeter coils, and calculate in ms. the time difference.  My understanding DCX has two types: Long and short delays. I don't know more details.

The DCX has the capability to do set this automatically if a measurement microphone is connected to it's "C" input. I haven't tried it but the DSP can do it.

If you are setting delay times manually you can set them by distance or time.

Many thanks to both gainphile2 and mgalusha for these insights! I will post photos and results when I am close to finishing this project.

[BrassEar]

You've heard both speakers? Could you please describe where each excels ? I can only dream of building an Orion, $2 grand drivers only and still needs 8 amplification ... so I was looking to build CS2 clone.

I have heard both the Orions and the CS2s but NOT in the same room or with the same equipment. I would never say anything bad about the Orions, they are truly amazing but they do lack the efficiency and dynamics of the CS2. On the other hand, I find the CS2 to be bright and hard. Whether this is due to the titanium compression driver, the PE conical horn, or too low a crossover point, I don't know. Since a CS2 clone with better drivers, horns, and higher crossover is much easier and cheaper to build than an Orion clone, this is the direction that I am going.

[zybar]

You've heard both speakers? Could you please describe where each excels ? I can only dream of building an Orion, $2 grand drivers only and still needs 8 amplification ... so I was looking to build CS2 clone.

I have heard both the Orions and the CS2s but NOT in the same room or with the same equipment. I would never say anything bad about the Orions, they are truly amazing but they do lack the efficiency and dynamics of the CS2. On the other hand, I find the CS2 to be bright and hard. Whether this is due to the titanium compression driver, the PE conical horn, or too low a crossover point, I don't know. Since a CS2 clone with better drivers, horns, and higher crossover is much easier and cheaper to build than an Orion clone, this is the direction that I am going.

A modified DCX goes along way towards eliminating the brightness and hardness which you speak of. 

George

[BrassEar]

A modified DCX goes along way towards eliminating the brightness and hardness which you speak of. 

George

Thanks George, I intend to try that.

BTW, my comments probably sound way too critical on the CS2. To be clear - I LOVE the CS2. I actually find them to be a breakthrough product, especially at their price point. To come within striking distance of $10-20K speakers is amazing.

I am personally out to prove or disprove my theory regarding these speakers which is..... take the stock CS2 design and use a better waveguide and compression driver and you could have a speaker that will challenge almost any speaker at any price.

[gainphile2]

I have heard both the Orions and the CS2s but NOT in the same room or with the same equipment. I would never say anything bad about the Orions, they are truly amazing but they do lack the efficiency and dynamics of the CS2. On the other hand, I find the CS2 to be bright and hard. Whether this is due to the titanium compression driver, the PE conical horn, or too low a crossover point, I don't know. Since a CS2 clone with better drivers, horns, and higher crossover is much easier and cheaper to build than an Orion clone, this is the direction that I am going.

Thanks for that insight. I am in the same position as you as an Orion is way out of reach financially. I'm happier than ever now to proceed with my cloning project. Will soon try to locate the selenium and horn.

The DCX cost $500 here in australia, so I may try getting by with analogue filters. At the moment I have played around with a pair of my eminence 15 and have some good idea how to tame it.

[ttan98]

Thanks for that insight. I am in the same position as you as an Orion is way out of reach financially. I'm happier than ever now to proceed with my cloning project. Will soon try to locate the selenium and horn.

The DCX cost $500 here in australia, so I may try getting by with analogue filters. At the moment I have played around with a pair of my eminence 15 and have some good idea how to tame it.

Gainphile,

I have 10" Dayton spherical Horn(similar to CS2) and Selenium titanium DE220Ti compression driver, a pair of each, if you are interested contact me.

[BrassEar]

Will soon try to locate the selenium and horn.

FWIW, I would NOT use the same selenium driver and PE conical horn unless you are perfectly happy with the sound of the stock CS2. Clayton recently revealed here that he is using the DDS waveguide and BMS driver on his flagship CS1.

I am now experimenting with the DDS waveguide and the B&C DE250 but I have heard the Beyma drivers are the ones to beat (just ask Duke of AudioKenesis).

[Magnetar]

Will soon try to locate the selenium and horn.

FWIW, I would NOT use the same selenium driver and PE conical horn unless you are perfectly happy with the sound of the stock CS2. Clayton recently revealed here that he is using the DDS waveguide and BMS driver on his flagship CS1.

I am now experimenting with the DDS waveguide and the B&C DE250 but I have heard the Beyma drivers are the ones to beat (just ask Duke of AudioKenesis).

The Beyma CP380 is pretty darn good, none of the metallic sound found in most compression drivers.

The Parts Express horns aren't very good - it would be hard to judge compression driver quality using them.

Still, the best 1" driver I have found is the no-longer-in business Emilar 175 series. I have used TAD, Altec, Beyma, BMS, JBL, B&C, Radian 1" drivers and others.

Some OB with Emilar and 21" bass:

[AK]

Magnetar, do you have impedance curve from that 21in pyle woofer?

[Magnetar]

Magnetar, do you have impedance curve from that 21in pyle woofer?

I will be measuring them again in the next few days. maybe a by the end of next weekend. I'm using a pair in the new bass line array panels - hopefully will have time to get working soon.

[gainphile2]

Will soon try to locate the selenium and horn.

FWIW, I would NOT use the same selenium driver and PE conical horn unless you are perfectly happy with the sound of the stock CS2. Clayton recently revealed here that he is using the DDS waveguide and BMS driver on his flagship CS1.

I am now experimenting with the DDS waveguide and the B&C DE250 but I have heard the Beyma drivers are the ones to beat (just ask Duke of AudioKenesis).

Thanks again. Any link where I can get pricing for the DDS waveguide ?

[mgalusha]

DDS Website: http://www.ddshorns.com/catalog.php?page=ENG190Pro

US Speaker carries them: http://www.usspeaker.com/dds%20cfd-eng-1-90pro-1.htm

[BrassEar]

DDS Website: http://www.ddshorns.com/catalog.php?page=ENG190Pro

US Speaker carries them: http://www.usspeaker.com/dds%20cfd-eng-1-90pro-1.htm

Good links. FYI, I don't think DDS sells directly. They use US Speaker and Assistance Audio for sales channels. US Speaker charges more but they actually will sell and deliver you product. I gave up on Assistance audio after several phone calls and emails, they apparently don't want my business or my money.

[BrassEar]

I hope I am not beating a dead thread to death but I finally got my CS2 clones up and running.

FYI:

4 Alpha 15As
2 DDS waveguides
2 B&C DE250
2 foam plugs
1 DXC2496

The good news is that even without any EQ the sound is pretty amazing.  The DE250 in the DDS 10-inch waveguide with Geddes foam plug makes for the best highs I have ever heard. Currently crossing over at 1.2K, LR48. Next step is to use TrueRTA with the Behringer mic to apply proper EQ and time alignment.

Only downside thus far is that I am not getting the bass that I heard from the CS2. I assume that EQ will fix this.

[jkelly]

Can you provide some detail on making/buying the foam plugs?
Would you have a pic?

Did you cut out a big diamond to stuff in the horn?

thanks,

Jeff

[BrassEar]

Can you provide some detail on making/buying the foam plugs?
Would you have a pic?

The foam is VERY specific. I did a fair amount of research and bought it here. I had to use 3M adhesive spray to glue the layers together and then trim to fit the waveguide.

On this page, scroll down to REGICELL Foam, Recommended for Speakers and Filters. You must use 30 PPI foam.

http://www.foamandupholstery.com/out_door_foam.htm

I will try to post some pix soon.

[gainphile2]

Good progress there BrassEars .. hope you can post pictures.

I have obtaned 10" PE waveguides, so the next step is to get the Seleniums. Unfortunately Aussie dollar has crashed and I have to wait a while now for better economic situation 

The plan is to cross at around 1.5k using analogue xo.

[jkelly]

I have two of the Seleniums available if it makes any sense to ship from NJ.

Jeff

[gainphile2]

I have two of the Seleniums available if it makes any sense to ship from NJ.

Jeff

How much are you asking? I'll try to see what's the shipping estimate with USPS.

[BrassEar]

Here are some photos of the project. The physical build and cosmetic stuff is about 99% complete. Now the real hard part starts with RTA and EQ tweaking on the Behringer. 

http://members.cox.net/brassear/emerald-physics-clones/