Wyred 4 Sound and Emerald Physics!

modwright · « **on:** 4 Apr 2008, 09:57 pm »

Hi guys, as many of you know, we used the Wyred 4 Sound multi-channel Class D 'Ice' amp along with Emerald Physics CS2 speakers at 2008 CES at the Venetian. It was admittedly an act of faith, as they came highly recommended by Wyred 4 Sound's only dealer - Underwood Hifi - www.underwoodhifi.com (770.667.5633). Walter is a dealer for Emerald Physics, Wyred 4 Sound and ModWright, among other mfrs. Walter also told me that I really had to hear the CS2's to believe them. Well, in a nutshell, I was NOT disappointed with the decision and we made GREAT music and turned MANY heads with the CS2's as well as our ModWright Modified Transporter and LS 36.5 'DM' (two-box) balanced preamp.

The Wyred 4 Sound amp is a STEAL at $2495 for a four-channel amp (2 x 250W & 2 x 125W) amps. This allows for bi amping, which the CS2's require of course and this is done in conjunction with a Behringer digital crossover for the CS2's also. Don't think that this amp is ONLY useful for the CS2's however, as ANY amp that is capable of bi amping WILL benefit from doing so. I know that Wyred 4 Sound can also build custom amps with differing number and amps with various power ratings. This also makes it a great amp for HT use.

Well, it has been a very busy time since the show and I am ashamed to admit that I have not had a chance to even hook up the CS2's since (yes I bought the show pair!) as I didn't have the requisite four channels of amplification. So, I recently bought from Walter, a Wyred 4 Sound amp in order to use the CS2's. Now so far, I have only used the amp as a stereo amp, driving my treasured and unique Greybeard KB/3/3's, personal monitors of the late Tim Wright of Greybeard. These are my babies....250lb. each, clothed in Greek marble from a quarry that is now closed. The GB's are 90dB efficient and represent a solid 4ohm load.

I have thus so far, only used the Wyred 4 Sound amp to power the speakers via its 250W amps, which are providing close to 500W into the 4 ohm load. All I can say is WOW! This is a very well-designed amp, with a BLACK background, excellent control of the speakers, and both bottom end grunt and HF extension that is neither fatiguing or anemic. In short, credit where credit is due. The Wyred 4 Sound amp is fantastic and with our tube preamp(s), the combination is phenomenal.

I am expecting to finally setup the CS2's in my Reference listening room over the weekend. The System will consist of the following:

Emerald Physics CS2 speakers.
Behringer crossover.
Wyred 4 Sound 4CH amp.
MWI LS 36.5 'DM' with PS 36.5 external dual-mono all tube power supply.
Redpoint Custom MWI Blue TT w/Triplanar Arm and Shelter 901 cart.
MWI SWP 9.0SE phono stage.
ModWright Truth modified Transporter.
Running Springs Jaco line conditioner.
LessLoss power cords.
Ridgestreet Audio 'Poiema' analog IC's
Ridgestree Audio 'Alethias' speaker cables.[/size]

I will post my listening results after I have things dialed in over the weekend.

Thanks,

Dan Wright
President, ModWright Instruments Inc.

rydenfan · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Apr 2008, 10:25 pm »

Nice to see the guy giving me so much joy, will finally be getting some himself

I look forward to your impressions. Now either Ted or I really need to get you some Tesla cables to hear

modwright · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Apr 2008, 07:23 pm »

Yes, I am spinning those funny big black discs on my Redpoint this morning, listening to Dylan 'Blood on the Tracks' while I eat breakfast

.

I am still looking for the hardware to setup the speakers.

I would love to try the new cables.

I understand that others are enjoying the LessLoss power cables now as much as I do and that is very cool. I have decided that we will not be selling/representing any cables as MWI. This allows me to simply recommend what is good without regard for politics.

In this regard, I like the Audience Au24 speaker cables very much, Acoustic Zen products are all excellent and I really like the LessLoss power cords especially right now. I am also enjoying Ridge Street Audio's top interconnect and speaker cable offerings and these are some of the best I have heard...period.

Thanks,

Dan

consttraveler · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Jun 2008, 12:52 pm »

Hello Dan:

Do you have any impressions you would like to share regarding the Emerald Physic CS-2's, now that you have had them set-up for a couple of months?

Best regards,

Dave

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Jun 2008, 01:06 pm »

i noted that evs is working on tweaking the beringher. Might be an interesting project for modwright and or underwood.....particularly if it has applications to other systems beyond the C2

modwright · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Jun 2008, 09:29 am »

Hi guys, have actually spent the past few nights thoroughly enjoying the CS2's and letting them break in fully. I had a delay in getting to knw them after CES thanks to some rough handling to/from the show, but the damaged unit was promptly replaced by Clayton at Emerald Physics.

I am using the stock behringer right now, but I have taken a peak inside and do have plans for improving it. First of all the switched mode PS should really be replaced with a good regulated PS. Secondly, the op-amps used are poor quality and should be improved. Beyond that, there are a few shielding tweaks that can be done and I will want to look deeper into better ways of coupling to/from the Behringer, possibly in lieu of op-amps. I have a feeling that there are some unnecessary gain stages being used that could be eliminated and transformer coupling is also a possibility.

As it is now, with everything stock, and using the 4CH Wyred 4 Sound amps, even with minimal time on the speakers, they are simply incredible. I really don't like to use the term 'good for the price', but honestly folks, you would have to spend A LOT more money to do better than these speakers for at or about $3K. Paired with the $2500 Wyred 4 Sound amp that I am using makes for an incredibly affordable and amazing system. These WILL be used in my R&D lab/office at the very least, as my reference 'monitors' for design work. I am not sure if they best my $16.5K Greybeard KB3/3's that were the custom Reference pair of the late Greybeard designer Tim Wright (no relation), but it is certainly enough for me to have to do more listening to really be sure.

The CS2's are a different kind of speaker. They are a completely 'outside of the box' design and concept and their sound is equally unique. There is an intimacy, level of detail and information retrieval and power from the CS2's that is quite amazing. I don't have a lot of experience with Electrostats or panels, but the sound I get from the CS2's seems to be in the same range, in terms of detail retrieval and presentation.

I will post more as they break in more fully, but lets just say that I have been enjoying some much needed 'DOWN' time lately, listening to music and it has been enjoyed through the CS2's!

Dan Wright
President, ModWright Instruments Inc.
www.modwright.com

consttraveler · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jun 2008, 09:03 pm »

Dan:

Thank you for the reply and I look forward to hearing more, later.

I am anxiously waiting for a shipping date for my pair.

As you get closer to tweaking the Behringer let us/me know how that goes.

Dave

kehut · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jun 2008, 09:41 pm »

Quote from: consttraveler on 7 Jun 2008, 09:03 pm

Dan:

Thank you for the reply and I look forward to hearing more, later.

I am anxiously waiting for a shipping date for my pair.

As you get closer to tweaking the Behringer let us/me know how that goes.

Dave

Hi Dave,

So you recently ordered a pair of CS-2's?..Excellent and congrats....Ken

mikel51 · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Jun 2008, 06:45 pm »

I've read a little bit about these speakers. Although it would bypass all the tube circuitry of Dan's mod, how would it sound to run the digital output from the transporter straight into the digital input of the Behringer ?

Does anybody have any insight into how well these speakers would perform in a relatively large room (20' X 30' with ceiling that slopes from 20' to 8')?

zybar · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Jun 2008, 08:54 pm »

Quote from: mikel51 on 8 Jun 2008, 06:45 pm

I've read a little bit about these speakers. Although it would bypass all the tube circuitry of Dan's mod, how would it sound to run the digital output from the transporter straight into the digital input of the Behringer ?

Does anybody have any insight into how well these speakers would perform in a relatively large room (20' X 30' with ceiling that slopes from 20' to 8')?

My room isn't quite as large as 20x30, but it is 30x17 and opens up into the kitchen and a two story foyer.

I have absolutely no issues with its level of performance.

Why bypass Dan's mods? Run Transporter's xlr analog outputs into the DCX. I think you will prefer that over using the digital output on the Transporter.

George

consttraveler · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Jun 2008, 01:03 pm »

I got some good news this morning! My brand new CS-2's are on the road and should be here early next week.

Karma = I'll be in El Paso next week for business!

Dave

modwright · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Jun 2008, 07:42 am »

The more time that I spend with them and the more that the compression drivers break in, the more that I am enamoured with them. They excel in detail, resolution and live presentation.

I am expecting a 1.6W/8W EL84 amp in the next week or so, that I am going to install as the tweeter amp, with Wyred 4 Sound Class D for the bass drivers. This may require interesting EQ'ing, to match levels, but I am quite interested to hear how this works out and will share my results.

Thanks,

Dan W.

Jerrym303 · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Jun 2008, 08:24 pm »

Hi Dan,

Do you know what the gain is on the new tube amp?

We talked a little about this, but I am using a Rawson F3 clone with about 13 db of gain. When going through the Behringer DCX2496 at zero gain on inputs and zero gain on the high frequencies and running directly off the MW Transporter with the 6h30 Dr tubes, I seem be about 16 db or so short to get good volume on recordings recorded at lower levels.

I either need a preamp with more gain than you have built into the LS 36.5 (12 db) or I need to be confident that future mods to the DCX2496 will allow me to cleanly use 6-8 db of gain from the DCX2496, which is not possible in stock mode, IMO. Or I guess I need t change amps, but I love the sound of the F3.

Thanks. Enjoying the Transporter greatly.

zybar · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Jun 2008, 08:37 pm »

Quote from: Jerrym303 on 14 Jun 2008, 08:24 pm

Hi Dan,

Do you know what the gain is on the new tube amp?

We talked a little about this, but I am using a Rawson F3 clone with about 13 db of gain. When going through the Behringer DCX2496 at zero gain on inputs and zero gain on the high frequencies and running directly off the MW Transporter with the 6h30 Dr tubes, I seem be about 16 db or so short to get good volume on recordings recorded at lower levels.

I either need a preamp with more gain than you have built into the LS 36.5 (12 db) or I need to be confident that future mods to the DCX2496 will allow me to cleanly use 6-8 db of gain from the DCX2496, which is not possible in stock mode, IMO. Or I guess I need t change amps, but I love the sound of the F3.

Thanks. Enjoying the Transporter greatly.

Go with the mods to the DCX as it will do a lot more than just give you the extra gain and flexibility (assuming your mods consist of adding the Diden kit)...it will improve your sound across the board.

The Modwright Transporter into a modified DCX sounds excellent!

George

modwright · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Jun 2008, 12:09 am »

I believe the tube amp that I will be using has a pretty good amount of gain, but I will verify. I will share my results when I get it. I was curious how much gain the analog stage of the Behringer provided. The DSP and DACs do alter the gain to a certain degree but I expect that the op-amps are adding further gain. I haven't measured it yet. Based on the amount of gain, there are options for the analog stage of the Behringer other than op-amps. Transformers are one option of course, tubes are another.

Thanks,

Dan

Jerrym303 · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Jun 2008, 03:42 am »

Hi George,

I definitely plan on mods to the DCX. I am just waiting to see what Dan comes up with or for some consensus to emerge regarding an upgrade package.

The dcx docs talk about a max gain of 22 db. I am convinced that at everything set to zero db, there is some signal voltage gone missing in there.

modwright · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Jun 2008, 04:50 am »

I am considering digging deeper into a mod for the Behringer. I am wanting to know the amount and level of interest in such a mod. I am just being truthful when I say that my time is limited these days as we have A LOT going on. The transporter mod has been a great success thanks to many of you and the 36.5 has been well reviewed and is well backordered as a result.

The amplifier is coming along nicely and slated for release in late Sept.

If there is sufficient interest in a mod for the Behringer, for use with the CS2's, then I will certainly pursue it. It is my intent to improve it for use in its current config - i.e. not to add a volume control, although I know that this has already been done by others and I am not discounting or dismissing this approach in any way. It is not my intent to make the Behringer into a preamp as well as xover, but rather to make it the BEST xover that it can be. I want to pursue re-designing the power supply as well as the currently op-amp-based output circuit. I have ideas of how to approach this and they may or may not involve tubes. My main goal is to offer a cost-effective mod for this unit that will SIGNIFICANTLY improve its performance. Please don't confuse cost effective with inexpensive

, as it will be at least $500 for a basic mod and more for a more advanced mod. It won't be rediculously expensive however, either, as we are talking about a part of a $3K range speaker that is already fantastic.

I am honestly just polling you guys for interest. If there is sufficient interest, then I will pursue it.

Thanks,

Dan Wright
President, ModWright Instruments Inc.

londonbarn · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 Jun 2008, 03:59 pm »

Do we want it????........Your DAN WRIGHT we want it!!!!!!!!! aa

jackman · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 Jun 2008, 04:19 pm »

Hi Dan,

I'm interested in your DCX mod. Although I don't have the Emerald Phy speakers, my BESL Series 5 MTM's use the DCX and I would like to take it to the next level with your mods. Please keep us posted.

Thanks,

Jack

OrJazzM · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Jun 2008, 04:47 pm »

A mod for the dcx would be nice but volume control would make it a must have, at least for me.