[sts9fan]

I just moved into a new house and want to give my system some good juice.  I only need one outlet so it should not be too bad.  I do have a few questions though.
1) When people say "dedicated line" do they mean to the street or just a dedicated breaker?
2) What are my optitions for filtering that line?  Isolation transformer?  What size is normally used for one system?  Do people mount these in the basement?

Thanks
Kris

[woodsyi]

It's a dedicated breaker.  I don't know if you can condition a whole line -- I am guessing it would take some big ass transformers.   OTOH, you can easily protect the line for voltage surge.  I use a Zero Surge sub-panel to protect my 2 dedicated 20 amp lines.

[Wayner]

In answer to question 1, the dedicated line would go to a dedicated 15 amp circuit breaker.

In answer to question 2, IMHO, a filter is not required.

Wayner

[Big Red Machine]

Lessons learned I can share:

While arc fault breakers are becoming code for bedrooms, etc., they do not fare well when large mondo amps are involved and will nusance trip on you. 

20 amp circuit is recommended in case some day you decide to have some super huge amps.

One outlet is not enough.  I put 3 on one wall where I planned to put my equipment and then later turned my room for better acoustics and now to reach the amp or monoblock amps I need extra long power cables to reach the dedicated line along one wall.

[Wayner]

Just remember that you can't change the breaker unless you change the wire gauge.

Apparently you didn't build the house, just bought a new one. Too bad you wern't involved during the build, when it was easy to pull wire. Or, have I assumed to much and the area you are talking about is unfinished?

Wayner

[sts9fan]

I was unclear.  This is a "new to me" house.  I want to isolate the one outlet were my gear is gonna go.  Right now it is connected to the dining room.  No dedicated room here!  This is my first place so give me time.
There is a empty spot for a new breaker so it should not be too bad.  Is it ok to put two outlets on the one line?  I am currently using a APC power conditioner so outlets are really not a problem especially because my tv is no longer going to be attached to it. 
Question: I remember reading about dimmer switches F'n with power.  Well this place is full of em.  Whats the deal with that? 

Kris   

[JoshK]

I will chime in here to suggest some options that others didn't mention. 

First, we all agree that what we mean by dedicated line is a run of electrical copper from the outlet to its own breaker in your breaker box, not a dedicated 120amp line from the pole.  You can get cute and get fancy cryo treated molex from Venhaus or other but I think it really pales in comparison to isolating the line for your system. 

Equitech sells Q in a box transformers that are meant to provide balanced power and isolation for a whole line.  I have one of their 15amp Q in a box.  I got it back when it was a special for $400.  They are more now but still available I think (email them, as their website doesn't reflect all options iirc).  This is an ugly breaker box looking jobby that sits next to your breaker box.  Have your electrician install it for you!

I have a picture of it in my gallery somewhere.  It makes the transformers in 20amp power conditioners look like a toy.  It says 15amps and it means, as I understand it, that it is meant to isolate and provide balanced power for a whole 15 amp line used up to its limits continually.  I think they are being much more conservative than most any PC manufacturer, so don't be turned off by wanting a 20amp job and they only provide 15amp.  Those are numbers audiophile manuf like to fudge.  In reality the 15amp is more than likely to suit your needs.

Dan Banquer once cautioned that not all components like balanced power.  I have never run across any such components but one should still be aware.  One has to be careful about fusing both hot and neutral lines as they are both "hot" with balanced power (one neg, one pos, but both potential). 

[kyrill]

hi

Many ppl many advices
this thread has dedicated lines as a topic. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=52491.msg470023#msg470023
I myself see no sonic advantages in a dedicated line. I see advantage in a dedicated ground line

BTW you will always have RFI does not matter where you live. You dont hear it as  radiostations crossing yr musical signal, that is with a heavy sender in the neighborhood; you hear it when you dont  hear it anymore, suddenly a harsh veil that you never knew was there is lifted. Providing yr setup has adequate transparency.

[Wayner]

Dimmers affect what is after them. Hopefully there are no outlets on dimmers as that would screw up some equipment. If you have the means to run a line from where you want to have the outlet(s) back to the breaker box, you can put several duplex receptacles on the same feeder line. If you go over the amperage rating of the breaker, it will trip. Not because you had lots of things plugged into the outlets, but because you exceeded the rating value. I always recommend having an electrician do this and also have the work inspected by the local and/or state electrical inspector.

Wayner

[JoshK]

This is a Equitech Q in a box next to a Plitron 500 va toroid.  Note, the Plitron is a big beefy toroid.

[Wayner]

With a dedicated line, you don't have to worry about other loads on the breaker.

Wayner

[JoshK]

I myself see no sonic advantages in a dedicated line. I see advantage in a dedicated ground line

Dedicated ground lines is a massive violation of code in the states.  You can only have ONE ground.   I have no idea about Europe.  Its dangerous beyond just being a violation.  It also can wreak havoc by adding more ground loops if it wasn't done well.

[Christopher Witmer]

Dedicated ground lines is a massive violation of code in the states.  You can only have ONE ground.   I have no idea about Europe.  Its dangerous beyond just being a violation.  It also can wreak havoc by adding more ground loops if it wasn't done well.

Just so we are on the same page, are "dedicated ground" "isolated ground" and "technical ground" all different ways of saying the same thing? If not, I'd be grateful for a quick rundown of the differences. (A link would be fine . . . I did a quick Google search but was not able to easily discern the answer to my question above so I decided I had better ask.)

Many thanks,

-- Chris

[mfsoa]

Maybe think about having a single 220V line run to the room, then get a big-ole isolation transformer?

[JoshK]

I understood Kyrill's suggestion to mean a seperated ground not attached to the breaker box.  That is a no-no.

"isolated ground" and "technical ground", I think of, as I've seen them referred to as ground isolated through an isolation or balancing transformer.  Technical ground is usually meant to mean the center in a balanced power configuration. 

P.S.  I am no authority on this subject.  Just sharing what little I have learned.  As always, one should do their own homework and consult with their licensed electrician.  Do not take the advice of someone on the forum as gospel. 

[Christopher Witmer]

As always, one should do their own homework and consult with their licensed electrician.  Do not take the advice of someone on the forum as gospel. 

I am shocked -- SHOCKED I tell you -- to learn that online electrical wiring advice might not be the gospel truth. 

THX,

-- Chris

[jcpix]

I think online might be close to the LAST place I'd go for electrical wiring advice.    

[richidoo]

Your F4 amp and Aikido can do with one 15A circuit, straight from the electrical panel to the outlet with no other outlets sharing the circuit. It helps to isolate other noise from the house, but is not total isolation. If the wiring you want to use to the dining room is already part of shared circuits, then maybe you can run a new length of romex. Since it is dining room, maybe it is normal on the first floor with basement or crawl space underneath, then it is simple to run a new wire. If the outlets are shared now, install a new 20A breaker romex to code and new quality outlet (FIM and Oyeide are good).

A single breaker to a single outlet is extremely easy for DIY. Get a book on wiring from home center and you will laugh how easy it is. The hardest part is pulling and running wire through the house without ruining the walls. You will pay an electrician dearly for that woodworking time that you can do yourself. If you don't wanna do the electrical hookup, you can hire the electrician for one hour to add the breaker and connect to the new outlet. Read how to run the wire to code so he doesn't have to fix it.

Since you already know that you can get by with one outlet, then your grounding plan is easy. Plug everything into the one outlet and you won't have any AC related ground loop hum. If you connect cable, sat or FM anmtenna to the system then hum can get in that way, but is more easily cured on the signal line's ground. If you need more outlets for sources, etc, try to hang them off of a quality strip plugged into that one dedicated outlet, rather than into another outlet that is on a separate circuit. If you do this, you will probably get a loop hum because the safety grounds from each of the separate AC circuits have to go all the way back to the elec panel before they connect again. They will each have different resistances because of different length wires and different devices, wire nuts, etc. With different resistances current will flow through the signal grounds that are usually also connected to safety and causing a hum. Keeping all the grounding in the same outlet allows all components to share the same grounding wire back to the panel, making grounding distances short and resistances low, especially if you use high quality PCs with connectors that grip really firmly and good outlets. If you think you will want more outlets, consider using a "old work" double gang box and put two outlets in it on the same circuit. They will be grounded together with one continuous uncut ground wire on the green screw, no wire nuts, then the ground will be great for 4 outlets, no hum.

More than one house earthing rod will create multiple paths to earth for lightning. Because those two paths have different resistances, the millions of volts across that difference causes thousands of amps to flow through 15A wiring and appliances inside the house. If multiple earth rods are bonded together as in a lightning protection scheme, then it is safe, but they are all tied together and to the house electrical earth so you're still not "isolated" ground. But you don't need it anyway. Just keep all the AC grounding for the hifi together on one circuit back to the panel, or in a more complicated hifi, install a dedicated panel closeby with short runs to the hifi, using very good ground connections of similar length to dedicated outlets. Maybe even aftermarket upgrade in-wall power cable like JPS or Belden, etc. You can put all the hifi circuits on same phase supposedly helps too.

Another tip, pickup a outlet checker. You plug it in and it gives LED codes to tell you if it is grounded, correct polarity, etc. Electricians work fast and make mistakes. The break covers their ass, but your hifi will want the outlet to be right.

Try plugging your system into an existing outlet in your dining room first. You will probably find it to be just fine as is. Just put it all on one outlet so you have no ground problems. Use a strip for more outlets, but put the amp direct into the wall for minimum resistance. Maybe you could just upgrade the outlet and that would be good enough. But a dedicated line makes an audible improvement over a shared, switched, dimmered, etc circuit.
Good luck!!!
Rich

[sts9fan]

Who was looking for gospel? Although the internet is the FIRST place I come for advice.  Then to the pros or my father who is EE , uncle is an electrician.
Thanks for all the good ideas.
kris

[kyrill]

hi Josh

I have a ground copper rod of 10 feet in my garden while "earth water"  is always there between 30cm and 1 mtr deep in the soil.( That ground is so "ground" i can I lit a 1 watt little light between that line  and the hot of the AC, dunno the English term)
That copper rod is connected to a thick copper wire  3feet long connected to my power bar. and a split wire to my heater pipers filled with water, which are 30 feet further connected to another earth rod of 3 mtrs deep  in the soil near the breaker box.  All my audio equipment is many tens of metres closer to my garden ground than any other appliance which ground is connected to that pipe near the breaker boxe .
So i dont have a real dedicated ground, but a semi dedicated?  No hum by the way

I understand now, never thought of it, that lightning strike will not only destroy anything along its path but has now 2 paths to do its ugly thing. Fortunelately only happened once in my life
 why the difference between the 2 ground will add a 3rd type of havoc i do not understand yet