Need a new redbook CD player

*Scotty* · « **Reply #80 on:** 2 Apr 2008, 10:28 pm »

I had a conversation about the build quality issues I had seen about 3years ago with Alex Peychev and he told me that virtually every manufacturer had de-contented their players and were no longer using brushless, coreless, slotless motors with good bearings from Japan. In light of the continued problems I've seen, I see no reason to doubt this. Even the expensive players from the majors around a $1000.00 seem to be intended to fail in about 18 months. I think the good old days are gone were you could buy a high quality player and your biggest worry would be whether the laser would last ten years. The key strategy may be to not over invest in a player.
Scotty

Freo-1 · « **Reply #81 on:** 2 Apr 2008, 10:41 pm »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 2 Apr 2008, 10:28 pm

I had a conversation about the build quality issues I had seen about 3years ago with Alex Peychev and he told me that virtually every manufacturer had de-contented their players and were no longer using brushless, coreless, slotless motors with good bearings from Japan. In light of the continued problems I've seen, I see no reason to doubt this. Even the expensive players from the majors around a $1000.00 seem to be intended to fail in about 18 months. I think the good old days are gone were you could buy a high quality player and your biggest worry would be whether the laser would last ten years. The key strategy may be to not over invest in a player.
Scotty

FWIW

I've had a Denon DVD 5910 for a couple of years now without issue. It provides excellent sonic performance as a CD, SACD, DVD/A, DVD/V, etc. It also makes an excellent transport via fire wire. Build quality is first rate. Several of my friends/colleagues were sufficiently impressed with it to get their own.

PS: The Denon has been VERY reliable.

bacobits1 · « **Reply #82 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 12:32 am »

I didn't intend to offend anyone or their machines involved.
My apologies.
Your talking pretty pricey stuff here and I looked hard at a lot of these machines because of good reviews.
I'm only repeating or citing examples of what has been going on
and what I came up against.

The manufacturers must be going nuts.
It's the choice of drives and it's that cost factor (cheaper) I'm sure is involved.
Have not heard too much bad about Teac/Esoteric drives or Accuphase.

You people are the lucky ones for sure.

D

Pirate · « **Reply #83 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 03:18 am »

Hi Den ,

Keep posting how you progress. aa. Can you give us an idea of what your upgrade path has been? What I mean is what players or DAC combinations have you gone through. Where do you think you are now in comparison?

bacobits1 · « **Reply #84 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 05:55 pm »

Well, I probably should not have changed from the EE Mini Max I had in the first place. Great player BTW.
Just got the bug to make a change. It's always that. I have not gone through too many players.
Sony CDP555es
2> CAL Icon MKII Super Boss
Denon 1650AR
EAD T1000 Transport, EAD DSP 7000lll I could have re-purchased these.
Theta Miles CD somewhere in between here.
Sony SACD XA777ES
EE Mini Max
Looking for a good CD and or HDCD (Not Necessary) Player in the used $1200-1600 area. See rant above.
Coming in now, is another mint Denon 1650AR, a good player nice build, simple, I liked it last time, and a Benchmark DAC1 24/196.

We'll see how this shakes out, all tube amplification Vista Audio i34 integrated. Outstanding Integrated BTW!
I don't miss the separates I had. Should sell for twice for what it is. Shhhhh.
I shrunk the whole system down from 4 tube components, something like 18 tubes, cables, interconnects etc.
Since I moved my room is shrunk too.

If it is not to my likeing I will turn it all around again.

D

doug s. · « **Reply #85 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 06:21 pm »

Quote from: bacobits1 on 3 Apr 2008, 05:55 pm

...Well, I probably should not have changed from the EE Mini Max I had in the first place. Great player BTW...

damn, i feel like a broken record, but i cannot help it.

a good email bud of mine sold his ee mini-max & went w/a cheap transport, after he bought a modded di/o...

doug s.

bacobits1 · « **Reply #86 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 06:51 pm »

I'm going to cry, now.
It's only money.

We're both on these boards WAY too much.

D

acresm22 · « **Reply #87 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 08:05 pm »

I've not heard the Onkyo DX-7555, but I admire the company for making a single disc, stand-alone redbook CD player with high end aspirations at a time when all the other big names are churning out multi-disc players only.

http://www.avguide.com/products/product-3784/

Pirate · « **Reply #88 on:** 5 Apr 2008, 08:16 pm »

I did it:

While following this thread and researching each of the suggestions posted here, I bought a new preamp.

It happens that while I was researching my new CDP I kept coming across some other threads discussing upgrades a lot of you have gone through. I also noticed that several Reviewers are using this particular pre amp in their reference systems while reviewing CDPs. Next thing I know, I’ve got one here and couldn’t be happier.

Now, I just explained that to you and hope you could relate? My wife

was about to call the men with the little white coats until she heard the new Preamp in my system.

Now it gets better.

I was certain I had methodically eliminated my original problem to be the CD player. After hooking up the New Preamp the right channel was now almost completely out.

Had I just purchased a DOA unit?

Did my CD player completely die?

Neither, I found a loose cable connection at the Amplifier speaker output jack.

After tightening all connections and firing everything back up there is no longer any difference in loudness of channels.

My CD player issue is now gone.

I 've been seriously looking at the Raysonic , Granite, Consonance Droplet, and many others CDPs that were suggested. Two factors are involve my following decision.
1. I could live with my existing CDP now that it's working.
2. I just parted with some of my $ on a new Preamp

But…Now that the upgrade bug has bitten me. aa
There is a CDP few of you suggested , it's the only CD I found to have a direct a/b comparison to the AH Njoe Tjoeb, I’m going with the Tube Research Labs modified Sony player. The stock Sony player has been ordered and will be forwarded to Paul, at Tube Research Labs for his mods.

As far as the SB3 goes, it’s temporarily on hold. It was brought to my attention that there may be a few more options available shortly. I must say that if $ was no object, the Modwright Transporter would have already been ordered. Now, that I own a piece of Dan’s gear I have a better understanding of the rave reviews!

doug s. · « **Reply #89 on:** 5 Apr 2008, 08:53 pm »

pirate, congrats on your new pre, i know that is a really nice pre.

i am also going against my better judgment and i am "upgrading" my digital system. i just won an audio alchemy acd pro cdp on agon last nite for $248. (retail was $1200.) it's local, so i will be able to pick it up. this is a cdp that got excellent rewiews, & is based upon the pioneer stable-platter cdp's. so, it's supposed to make a killer transport. we'll see - i am gonna try it instead of my ~$80 used denon cdp560 5-disc changer that has been serving me so well, as a transport for my modded di/o... (which was sounding killer last nite, btw!

)

doug s.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #90 on:** 6 Apr 2008, 03:40 am »

Pirate,

I can heartily recommend the Dakiom Feedback Stabilizers found on Audiogon. Tho a lot of their marketing jargon is a bit overblown, apparently stabilizing feedback is very beneficial to quality sonic output.

It's not the magic bullet to 'perfecting' digital technologies (as they near claim), but it goes a LONG way towards improving it.

I have the original stereo Dakioms ($59 or so), but they have since come out with mono versions (twice the price), but of higher quality components according to the company. They have made a virtually unlistenable CD/DVD (Sony DVP-S7700...modified as a transport, as well) sound okay.

I use mine on a $59 COBY CD player and I find it no less enjoyable than a digital front end that I had spent $4K on a few years ago

They not only work, but they move with your new digital player as you move on, as well.

John

boead · « **Reply #91 on:** 6 Apr 2008, 04:23 am »

Quote from: Pirate on 21 Mar 2008, 07:51 pm

My Ah Njoe with upsampler is dying The Display has dimmed and one channel is playing louder than the other. I have changed the tubes and cables but the problem persists Has anybody upgraded from the Ah! player with success? New or used suggestions would be appreciated. Budget of $1500 to $2000 aa

So many to choose from but after getting the opportunity to listen to MANY different popular players ranging from $650 to $4500 I found just two I really liked.

The Arcam FMJ CD-23. The newer models are not the same; I like the model 23 with the Ring DAC’s, they are awesomely musical. Just has that ‘right’ sound, slightly layed back but in perfect rhythm with pleasant tone. You can snag one of these in nice shape on AGon for less then $1000 which is an Audiophile deal! I got one some time ago and will never sell it. It’s like an old pair of sneakers, it just always feels right.
The second player I liked was the Meridian 508 CD Player. More detailed then the Arcam but NOT stupidly so like so many other players that do upsampling. The Meridian is very musical and has wonderful tone. It’s a nice change from the Arcam FMJ ring and really a matter of opinion and system. Still very similar to the Arcam. This player was over $3500 and can be had on AGon for under $1500.

These are definetly two of the most musical CD Players I’ve listened too.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #92 on:** 6 Apr 2008, 06:05 am »

John,did you have a problem with the highs or with sibilance before you installed the Dakiom Stabilizers? I was wondering what you were hearing before and after installation.
Scotty

BrianM · « **Reply #93 on:** 6 Apr 2008, 12:00 pm »

Quote from: boead on 6 Apr 2008, 04:23 am

The Arcam FMJ CD-23. The newer models are not the same; I like the model 23 with the Ring DAC’s, they are awesomely musical. Just has that ‘right’ sound, slightly layed back but in perfect rhythm with pleasant tone. You can snag one of these in nice shape on AGon for less then $1000 which is an Audiophile deal! I got one some time ago and will never sell it. It’s like an old pair of sneakers, it just always feels right.

I owned a CD23 for several years and agree it is both great and arguably better than what replaced it. I compared it to the Van Alstine DAC, and it was pretty close. I think the DAC's 16-bit R2R gives even better tone, but a used CD23 for under a grand is hard to beat.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #94 on:** 6 Apr 2008, 04:11 pm »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 6 Apr 2008, 06:05 am

John,did you have a problem with the highs or with sibilance before you installed the Dakiom Stabilizers? I was wondering what you were hearing before and after installation.
Scotty

Hey Scotty!

It didn't even get to dissecting the Sony for any sonic properties like 'poor highs' or 'sibilance', it was just plain awful (and this was after it was modded for transport duties by Empirical Audio where I assume the talented Steve Nugent improved the power supply substantially enough).

It sounded miserable....much like mp3...and not at all like live music (my reference)

But, with the Dakiom (the cheapest one they make, the $59 version) it was night and day livable. It still wasn't high quality reproduction, but it was livable, entirely so - afterwards.

Feedback stabilization seems to be an important part of quality 'digital' sonics - surely not the only one, but important enough that the Dakiom's do work on at least older or cheaper players quite well

It almost goes without saying that I have nothing to do with Dakiom or it's owners - I just hear what I have heard and relating to all.

Regards, John

Pirate · « **Reply #95 on:** 7 Apr 2008, 04:20 am »

Hi John,

Thanks for the heads up on the Dakiom Stabilizers. Your right about the websight

, Voodoo magic or not I believe you. My existing CDP had some sibilance problems until I did some tube rolling. I wonder if this is like adding the Dakioms

? Actually I'm pretty happy with it right now.

As for the Sony player. I really don't have any expectations for the stock unit

. It doesn 't have a tube section and thats where The Dakiom feedback Stabilizers may come in. I'm really going to be disappointed if the modded version has a sibilance problem

.

Pirate · « **Reply #96 on:** 19 Apr 2008, 07:08 pm »

Quick update:

I received the Stock Sony and hooked it up for some A/B

comparison between the Ah! CDP.

Not even close

between the AH! and the redbook side of the stock Sony player. I have had the Ah! for so long that I guess I was taking the unit for granted.

On the other hand The Sony is capable of SACD where the AH! is not. The Sony definitely comes much closer to the AH! but still has that sibilance and harsh edge on notes. The Ah! is more laid back with a much smoother presentation

.

Next step is to send the Sony off to Tube Research Labs for Paul's mods.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #97 on:** 19 Apr 2008, 08:16 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 6 Apr 2008, 03:40 am

I use mine on a $59 COBY CD player and I find it no less enjoyable than a digital front end that I had spent $4K on a few years ago

They not only work, but they move with your new digital player as you move on, as well.

John

So John- what was the 4K player? If you don't want to post on the forum, just IM me because I'm curious.

Thanks,
Michael

anubisgrau · « **Reply #98 on:** 19 Apr 2008, 08:45 pm »

My feeling is if someone is buying a CDP now - when the format is actually dying - it should be a lifetime machine.

The cheapest I might have this sort of confidence is Softone Model 3, utilizing CD-PRO2LF transport. Please google to find a link to the Jap manufacturer website. It costs $1500 plus shipping and taxes from Japan.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #99 on:** 20 Apr 2008, 01:27 am »

Quote from: mcrespo71 on 19 Apr 2008, 08:16 pm

So John- what was the 4K player? If you don't want to post on the forum, just IM me because I'm curious.

Thanks,
Michael

Michael,

It was a fully modded-by-Empirical Audio/Steve Nugent Sony S-7700 transport (with built in - from MSB - true 192K outputs) to a MSB Gold Link II with Upgraded power supply (both modded by Empirical Audio/Steve Nugent) and top-notch digital cable and power umbilical from Revelation Audio Labs. I think my actual outlay was actually well in excess of $4.5K

Every mod and hi-grade wire improved the sonics....but none came close to real, live music. So, I'm every bit as happy with my $50 COBY + $39 Radio Shack regulated power supply and $59 Dakiom for background music. In fact, more happy, as I was able to salvage $1300.00 (still lost $3200) on the sale of the Sony/MSB after 3 years use to another (who, when I last checked with him, was happy as hell with it so go figure

)

No offense to either Sony or Steve Nugent intended here, of course........but if you're an audiophool trying to coax realistic playback of live music, you need to find another, higher resolution format.

The Dakioms are surprisingly effective at making the format sound pretty good, however...danged if I fully understand how, nor does Dakiom let on much about how other than it being a 'Feedback Stabilizer'

Overall, CD/Redbook is/was a HUGE advance in convenience and a mild degradation in audio resolution 25 years ago....DVD-A, vinyl and reel-to-reel are truer sources (SACD just sounds weird to me every time I've heard it...I've read that it's a phase issue, beats me, it just sounds dang odd to my ears).

Redbook is a 2-and-a-half dimension source trying desperately to portray a 3D event. Spend less on it and recognize it's failings....and find something better to upgrade your sonics.

I'm not at all anti-digital technologies - I have no sacred cows. I think soon enough vinyl will be eclipsed by a high-resolution digitally sampled technology.....it's just not around yet. I will love the day I can stop castrating myself with vinyl to truly enjoy music....nothing would make me happier than to slip a silver disc in a tray, or punch up my PC and get super hi-resolution music from it.

DVD-A may even be better already....I just need to hear more to be sure.

John