SB3 Jitter reduction mods

crooner · « **Reply #60 on:** 4 Sep 2008, 05:23 am »

Quote from: F-100 on 4 Sep 2008, 05:14 am

Pat,
If your mod doesn't cost tons of moola like other "competition" then count me in.

Ditto here!!! aa

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #61 on:** 4 Sep 2008, 05:28 am »

Quote from: F-100 on 4 Sep 2008, 05:14 am

Pat,
If your mod doesn't cost tons of moola like other "competition" then count me in.

Pat,

This might be a good deal for us who want their Duet modded by you. If you (Pat) could give us a promotion to a limited group of Duet's owner by modifying with a reasonable charge we will appreciate your work. What do you think? Please let us know. Thanks.

Tan

art · « **Reply #62 on:** 4 Sep 2008, 05:30 am »

It is not a function of "moola", it is a function of how much room is inside.

Do we make a mod that just addresses the SPDIF output, or does it have to also address the poor PSU for the clock? That is what I want to know. What do you guys who are interested in this sort of product expect?

Maybe I am asking questions that you guys simply can not answer, as you probably don't have the knowledge, experience, test equipment, and thorough understanding of how critical the clock supply is. Or all of the hours that I have spent measuring the performance of the SB3 and Duet products. Specifically, the noise level, its frequency spectrum, how much it is modulated when things get busy.

No, it will not cost $2-3k, and frankly I am not the least bit interested in hearing people who pour that kind of money into a $300 product think. Mainly because none of those gimmicks fix the clock supply. You may think that it does, but simply doesn't. Period. And that problem exists even if you use either unit as a stand-alone DAC.

Thanks to those of you who have given, or will give, thoughtful input.

Pat

art · « **Reply #63 on:** 4 Sep 2008, 05:34 am »

Cost for modding just the output...........one transformer, one BNC, small PCB, with possibly some (shudder!) IC regulator, just to give some isolation from that nasty internal supply, I don't see why it couldn't be done for under $100.

Does that help any?

Pat

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #64 on:** 4 Sep 2008, 05:43 am »

Quote from: art on 4 Sep 2008, 05:34 am

Cost for modding just the output...........one transformer, one BNC, small PCB, with possibly some (shudder!) IC regulator, just to give some isolation from that nasty internal supply, I don't see why it couldn't be done for under $100.

Does that help any?

Pat

Pat,

This is a sweet deal. Please count me in. Thanks.

Tan

F-100 · « **Reply #65 on:** 4 Sep 2008, 05:44 am »

Quote from: art on 4 Sep 2008, 05:34 am

Cost for modding just the output...........one transformer, one BNC, small PCB, with possibly some (shudder!) IC regulator, just to give some isolation from that nasty internal supply, I don't see why it couldn't be done for under $100.

Does that help any?

Pat

Yesssssssssssssssss....

Put me down for one, PLEASE.

mr_bill · « **Reply #66 on:** 4 Sep 2008, 01:08 pm »

Me too.

Tyson · « **Reply #67 on:** 4 Sep 2008, 03:00 pm »

Oops, didn't realize I was in an industry ad thread. Poor form to post here, my apologies.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #68 on:** 4 Sep 2008, 04:18 pm »

Quote from: Tyson on 4 Sep 2008, 03:00 pm

Oops, didn't realize I was in an industry ad thread. .......

Whoops. I didn't notice that either. I hope throwing Mike's name in there wasn't uncouth of me.
Not sure if there's any form of "competition" (or whatever).
Pat, I'll delete if you'd like me too.

Bob

mgalusha · « **Reply #69 on:** 4 Sep 2008, 04:35 pm »

Quote from: Bob in St. Louis on 4 Sep 2008, 04:18 pm

Whoops. I didn't notice that either. I hope throwing Mike's name in there wasn't uncouth of me.
Not sure if there's any form of "competition" (or whatever).
Pat, I'll delete if you'd like me too.

Not a problem for me as I don't do Squeezbox or Duet mods except for myself, so I'm certainly not anyone's competition.

JohnR · « **Reply #70 on:** 5 Sep 2008, 02:42 pm »

Quote from: art on 4 Sep 2008, 05:34 am

Cost for modding just the output...........one transformer, one BNC, small PCB, with possibly some (shudder!) IC regulator, just to give some isolation from that nasty internal supply, I don't see why it couldn't be done for under $100.

Does that help any?

Pat

Pat - you started this thread almost six months ago. After all that time, do you actually have a product of any kind to offer?

If not, I think this thread can be binned.

art · « **Reply #71 on:** 5 Sep 2008, 04:37 pm »

We have lots of solutions, but none that we are comfortable with.

Do what you think it best. It is your forum.

Pat

mca · « **Reply #72 on:** 5 Sep 2008, 05:03 pm »

Quote

Pat - you started this thread almost six months ago. After all that time, do you actually have a product of any kind to offer?

If not, I think this thread can be binned.

I was not aware there was a time limit. What's the harm?

art · « **Reply #73 on:** 5 Sep 2008, 06:31 pm »

I guess 'cuz it looks like trolling.

For the record, we are manufacturers. We are not in the "mod" business. I created this thread out of the numerous messages that I have received.

Now, if all that anyone wants is just a souped-up SPDIF, I have PCBs that can go in immediately. Since our company name will forever be attached to it, we (ok, mostly "I" in this case) feel that the effort would be wasted without addressing all the issues.

But, not my SB3/Duet, and not my money will be spent. Just trying to find out which direction to go before I make a boatload of PCBs.

We may just scrap the whole affair, and build a new unit from scratch, based on the Duet. In which case, we will just do it and then announce it when (and if) it becomes reality. No trolling involved.

Pat

bpape · « **Reply #74 on:** 5 Sep 2008, 07:59 pm »

I for one appreciate your attempts to involve the potential community in the decision making process.

Bryan

art · « **Reply #75 on:** 6 Sep 2008, 05:24 pm »

The general public was invited to comment as it was the general publics desire to create this mod. Again, we are not normally in the mod business. In order to generate a certain amount of goodwill towards us, I thought that perhaps we should explore the possibility.

Anyway, we were discussing whether or not to proceed last night, when someone who is much less technical pointed out an obvious flaw in my approach.

OK, the idea involved ripping out the crystal for 48 kHz, mainly because I needed room, and secondly because I don't want 2 oscillators operating at one time in the same chip. Some of you objected. Ok, fine, I leave it in and look for room elsewhere. Performance suffers a tad, but hey........

OK, now that I leave it in, someone points out: "Uh, if you do this reclocking that you talk about, don't you have to reclock at both frequencies?"

Oh, crap.............

OK, scratch reclocking. With 44 and 48 kHz operation, a major pain to do. Especially with no space.

So, if we don't reclock, and stick with the stock clocks (yuk!), operating on the stock regulators (double yuk), I gain enough space to probably make it happen.

In that case, for $100, which would barely cover our costs in parts and 1 hour of my labour (I get $70 per for consulting, and since I will have to do this...........), I think it can proceed.

I may look at a way to power the driver from the analogue stage supply. If all that I need is 4-6 mA for the improved driver stage, the thought of gouging a hole in the rear for a special wall wart to power it sounds silly.

However, it no longer becomes a "jitter reduction" mod, but an "improved SPDIF" mod.

OK, your turn to comment. Translation: which is more important, jitter reduction or 48 kHz operation? Maybe $200 for the former (and no 48 kHz), $100 for the latter (and no jitter reduction).

Pat

posternutbag2000 · « **Reply #76 on:** 6 Sep 2008, 05:49 pm »

My preference is jitter reduction and shuck the 48kHz...I dont use mine for digital radio anyway which I believe has some 48kHz streams...If that crystal gives you the space you need then remove it...Thanks again Pat for your expertise...

have a great weekend...

scott

crooner · « **Reply #77 on:** 6 Sep 2008, 06:54 pm »

I have some digitized LPs at 48 kHz which I downsampled from the original files at 96 kHz, 24 bits resolution. I could have used 44.1 kHz but I figured it was best to use exactly half the sampling rate.

This won't work if the 48 kHz crystal is removed, right?

Should I go back to the originals and resample to 44.1 kHz? Any sonic pitfalls in doing this? I would use Steinberg Wavelab to do the conversion.

ajayrav · « **Reply #78 on:** 15 Sep 2008, 04:45 pm »

Quote from: posternutbag2000 on 6 Sep 2008, 05:49 pm

My preference is jitter reduction and shuck the 48kHz...I dont use mine for digital radio anyway which I believe has some 48kHz streams...If that crystal gives you the space you need then remove it...Thanks again Pat for your expertise...

have a great weekend...

scott

My preference would be jitter reduction as well. How close are we to having that mod ready as I'm interested... One naive question, what would having an improved spdif output sound like in the real world? Which would have maximum benefit on sound quality, jitter reduction or improving spdif? Oh, and I don't care about internet radio....so out with the crystal!

Thanks,
Ajay

Cobra2 · « **Reply #79 on:** 15 Sep 2008, 08:24 pm »

Why not think "out of the box"? Can we have it all - external?
(or repack all in a different box...)

Arne K