[csero]

4. Please don't mention burn-in, it is a myth the continues to be perpetrated by ignorant sales people at big box retailers.

Here at the train station plasma screens were installed as track info tables around 3 years ago. In about a year they became practically unreadable because of the burn-in.

[Bob in St. Louis]

About 8,760 hours!  I assume these are turned on 24/7/365?
Granted, none of us would have stationary images on our screen 24/7, but people that use theirs for gaming might want to be cautious.

Good discussion guys. Very good info!

Bob

[Dan Driscoll]

Not to mention replacing a 250 dollar bulb unit or something vs. and entire screen in a plasma makes much more sense to me..

You are attempting to equate bulb replacement in an LCD panel with complete plasma panel failure. That is not a valid comparison, you WILL have to replace the bulb on a regular basis, that's a fact. It is exceptionally unlikely that you would ever have to replace the actual panel from a plasma set. In the extremely unlikely event that a plasma panel did fail after your standard and extended warranties had expired (3-5 years), you would replace the entire set, not just the panel. The same would be true for an LCD panel. I also recall seeing some failure stats showing that LCD panels failed at a higher rate than plasma, although the difference was not great. However, I don't have a link, so I won't swear to it.

So let's look at a real comparison, ongoing operational costs. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the lifespan of an LCD backlight is typically 3000-3500 hours. So over the half life of a 60,000 hour LCD panel, assumng  you will replace the bulb 15 to 20 times, at $250 a pop, to use your cost. That's a minimum out of pocket expense of $3750, plus the added hassle of either keeping spare bulbs on hand or having no TV while you're waiting for a replacement to be delivered. For that amount of money you can but a brand new plasma display, with better PQ.

Meanwhile, the on-going expense of operation a plasma is a few more cents a month on your electric bill.

[Dan Driscoll]

Here at the train station plasma screens were installed as track info tables around 3 years ago. In about a year they became practically unreadable because of the burn-in.

And what would they have looked like if they were CRTs?

The myth being propagated by ignorant sales people is that plasmas are highly susceptible to burn-in and to be honest,early models were. But modern plasma panels are even less susceptible than CRTs, you have to completely abuse them to cause permanent burn-in, such as using them to display static images 24 hours a day for, oh, say a year. 

I'm not arguing that plasmas are perfect or that they are the right solution in all instances, they definitely have their flaws. But there's a lot of misconceptions and in some cases deliberate mis-information that needs to be corrected. Current generation plasmas generally look better than LCDs, last just as long in the real world and typically cost less for the same size panel of comparable quality. Those are facts, regardless of what the BB or CC sale geek is saying.

[undertow]

Dan,
Not to argue with you at all, however I totally forgot about Burn in on my comments, Good bringing it up..

At my company as with the Train schedule example above we have 3 new plasmas that display a grid for customer orders which think like Word Excel spreadsheet type thing.. As it is these suckers after 3 months of displaying this information about 12 hours per day were completely burnt in to never be used again for anything but these grids.. Now in a new sales office they happened to have some new LCD's connected directly feeding these plasmas off the same system and computers… Guess what, never a single line was left or out of place vs. the Plasmas..

Now onto the other point of LCD backlight, I am not sure what info you have been given however its not '3000 hours.. Its typical Life is ' 30, 000 hours, which is nearly 10, 000 higher rating than a legacy style CRT.. see below

o   Unlike desktop monitors, kiosks are operating 24 / 7
o   Typical CRT life (half-brightness) is 10,000 to 20,000 hours (416 to 833 days)
o   Typical LCD backlight fluorescent lamps last 20,000 to 30,000 hours

[ctviggen]

Not to mention replacing a 250 dollar bulb unit or something vs. and entire screen in a plasma makes much more sense to me..

You are attempting to equate bulb replacement in an LCD panel with complete plasma panel failure. That is not a valid comparison, you WILL have to replace the bulb on a regular basis, that's a fact. It is exceptionally unlikely that you would ever have to replace the actual panel from a plasma set. In the extremely unlikely event that a plasma panel did fail after your standard and extended warranties had expired (3-5 years), you would replace the entire set, not just the panel. The same would be true for an LCD panel. I also recall seeing some failure stats showing that LCD panels failed at a higher rate than plasma, although the difference was not great. However, I don't have a link, so I won't swear to it.

So let's look at a real comparison, ongoing operational costs. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the lifespan of an LCD backlight is typically 3000-3500 hours. So over the half life of a 60,000 hour LCD panel, assumng  you will replace the bulb 15 to 20 times, at $250 a pop, to use your cost. That's a minimum out of pocket expense of $3750, plus the added hassle of either keeping spare bulbs on hand or having no TV while you're waiting for a replacement to be delivered. For that amount of money you can but a brand new plasma display, with better PQ.

Meanwhile, the on-going expense of operation a plasma is a few more cents a month on your electric bill.

According to this website, LCDs should last as long as plasmas:

http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtv/lcdtv-lifetime.shtml

Also, here's an add for an LCD TV:

http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-LC-37D7U-Aquos-Widescreen-LCD/dp/B0007UVYLW

Note that they state the following:  "And, with its 60,000-hour lamp life, the backlight life is long enough to give you viewing pleasure for many years."

These seem to refute your suggestion that a bulb will only last 3,500 hours. 

[ctviggen]

In fact, this website implies that LCD backlights will last longer than Plasmas:

http://www.cheap-plasma-tv.com/lcd-vs-plasma-tv.htm

"Television Life Span

Again, LCD vs. Plasma, and LCD comes out ahead in regards to life span. Plasma TVs generally have a life span of 20,000 - 30,000 hours according to manufactures. This compares to around 50,000 - 80,000 hours for the LCD backlight. Also, since Liquid Crystal Televisions use a backlight, this backlight can be replaced on some models if needed. Assuming 4 hours of viewing per day, a Plasma TV will last approximately 13 years, compared to an LCD TV that would last around 25-40 years. In either case, you will likely get a lot of viewing pleasure out of both types"

Now, I personally find it hard to believe that any TV today will last 25-40 years, but I'm of the opinion that most stuff made today is crap. 

[Dan Driscoll]

According to this website, LCDs should last as long as plasmas:

http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtv/lcdtv-lifetime.shtml

Yep, my bad. For some reason I was thinking about the high intensity bulbs in RPTV LCD sets, not flat panels. You are correct, the fluorescent tubes used in flat panel LCDs do last much, much longer.

[Dan Driscoll]

In fact, this website implies that LCD backlights will last longer than Plasmas:

http://www.cheap-plasma-tv.com/lcd-vs-plasma-tv.htm

That website has a 2003 copyright. Back then plasmas did have a 20,000-30,000 hour lifespan. But that was 4-5 generations ago, it's like comparing a Dell PC from 2003 to one you would buy today.

The more current (mid-2007 and later) websites are all listing 60,000 hours to half life.

http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-lifespan.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_display
http://www.my-plasma-tv.com/Plasma_TV_Lifespan.html

Of course, just like LCD that's under ideal conditions and properly set-up. If you run either type of display at full brightness all the time they will fail sooner.

[drcruz]

Excellent Dan. Problem is we the plasma supporters are fighting perceptions that are already set and cemented in place by the sales guys at BB, CC, Fry's and probably Costco, Sam's Club, Dell and who ever else is out there spreading the PDP myths.

This was a couple of years ago, but I saw my co-workers LCD and it was horrible, the blacks looked charcoal gray and the colors were all washed out (too much contrast crushing the whites). I just set up my Father-In-Laws LCD and it couldn't hold a candle to my 4 year old Panny. Truth be told though it wasn't set up for HD. It only had SD DVD hooked up and it wasn't through component video, it was set up for composite.

[jmichael]

I'd like to add too, the issue pertaining to LCD versus Plasma exhaust heating.

Most plasmas that were made in the past year or so, produce way less heat than they used to.

As a matter of fact, most LCD's are equal to or have greater heat dissipation than a lot of Plasma's manufactured today, pending size.

[Freo-1]

I'd like to add too, the issue pertaining to LCD versus Plasma exhaust heating.

Most plasmas that were made in the past year or so, produce way less heat than they used to.

As a matter of fact, most LCD's are equal to or have greater heat dissipation than a lot of Plasma's manufactured today, pending size.

Yup, and let's not forget the picture quality!

I was lucky enough to obtain a Pioneer Kuro 5080 in January, and man, what a picture. The store had a special on the price of the unit, as well as a special on a professional setup. Once the setup was complete, the picture (which was great out of the box), was truly remarkable.

[rabpaul]

Here I am looking for a plasma/lcd and I come across a subject like this.
Ok Plasma is not dead nor AFAIK is dying. (True/False?).

Its not apparent if Pioneer will go the way Sony did some years back i.e Sony stopped its plasmas as they were all out sourced. So Pioneer makes them now, is planning to outsource and who knows may stop plasmas altogether at some time in the future like Sony did?

Here is a question that I don't really have a definitive answer to.
42" screen, sitting 6 feet away, source Blu-Ray, any difference between a 720p Plasma or 1080p LCD?

[JoshK]

Here is a question that I don't really have a definitive answer to.
42" screen, sitting 6 feet away, source Blu-Ray, any difference between a 720p Plasma or 1080p LCD?

IMO, no.  If the source is capable of at least 720p, then 720p will look damn good and you'd be hard to see the difference with 1080p at that distance with a medium sized pictures like 42". 

[Mike Dzurko]

Here I am looking for a plasma/lcd and I come across a subject like this.
Ok Plasma is not dead nor AFAIK is dying. (True/False?).

Its not apparent if Pioneer will go the way Sony did some years back i.e Sony stopped its plasmas as they were all out sourced. So Pioneer makes them now, is planning to outsource and who knows may stop plasmas altogether at some time in the future like Sony did?

Here is a question that I don't really have a definitive answer to.
42" screen, sitting 6 feet away, source Blu-Ray, any difference between a 720p Plasma or 1080p LCD?

From what I've seen, the difference between 720 and 1080 is one of the least important aspects of video unless you're talking really large screen viewed close up.  There is so much that goes into the overall picture quality and the numbers don't really tell that story.

[mrdon]

Pioneer made THE best plasma televisions - period. I sure as hell hope this ain't true.

Actually, Fujitsu "made THE best plasma televisions - period."