[soarertoy]

Hi,
As I've recently moved to VMPS speakers, could anyone advise me on any 'full feature' integrated SS amplifiers suitable in performance & power for RM2s & 626s?  I prefer an integrated pre/power amp to minimise the number of boxes, and have things like speaker switching, phono input, mono, balance, tone & headphone options.

Thanks

Richard

[John Casler]

Hi,
As I've recently moved to VMPS speakers, could anyone advise me on any 'full feature' integrated SS amplifiers suitable in performance & power for RM2s & 626s?  I prefer an integrated pre/power amp to minimise the number of boxes, and have things like speaker switching, phono input, mono, balance, tone & headphone options.

Thanks

Richard

Hi Richard,

While on the surface that looks like an easy question, there are a lot of requirements that narrow it down, especially if you are looking for a "phono input w/phono section".

Both of those speakers like a fair amount of power to perform best (100wpc @ 8 at least)

What "price range" are you looking at?

[soarertoy]

Hi John,

I'm not working to a fixed budget, just natural meanness!  I generally work to the minimum cost necessary to do the job properly. I'm finding difficulty in seeing anything at all that fits the spec as well as the Yamaha ca2010 I've had for many years and am now having to to see if it can be brought up to a modern performance.  The system will be used for the excellent KPLU radio on cable, recorded jazz, pop etc, & home theatre.  All ideas welcome, new or old kit.

Thanks & best regards

Richard

[John Casler]

Hi John,

I'm not working to a fixed budget, just natural meanness!  I generally work to the minimum cost necessary to do the job properly. I'm finding difficulty in seeing anything at all that fits the spec as well as the Yamaha ca2010 I've had for many years and am now having to to see if it can be brought up to a modern performance.  The system will be used for the excellent KPLU radio on cable, recorded jazz, pop etc, & home theatre.  All ideas welcome, new or old kit.

Thanks & best regards

Richard

If it were "me", I'd loosen the preamp/amp (integrated) restriction and that opens up your options.

To get a real difference, you need more power.  The 100wpc I listed is bare minimum, and 150 - 200wpc would be a better goal.

Not to many "modern" integrateds that can do that well.

I got two clients the Krell KAV 400-xi, (200wpc) and one loved it, the other traded his back.

I might also look at a Bryston B-100 SST (100-180wpc)

But if you relax your "integrated" idea, I might look at the NuFORCE Ref9 v2 monoblocs (190-300wpc) with a Bryston BP-6 preamp.

Or even the NuForce AVR-17 as a preamp (and it is an excellent preamp) with the 3 channel MCH 2-C3 200wpc and just idle a single channel giving you higher power in the other two.

I have clients with all the above, who have enjoyed those combo's (except the Bryston/NuForce combo which is what I have in MY system)

I think if you make the move, you would want to go "high enough" to make a substantial difference, and also have some longevity like you did with the Yammie.

[Zheeeem]

Hi John,

I'm not working to a fixed budget, just natural meanness!  I generally work to the minimum cost necessary to do the job properly. I'm finding difficulty in seeing anything at all that fits the spec as well as the Yamaha ca2010 I've had for many years and am now having to to see if it can be brought up to a modern performance.  The system will be used for the excellent KPLU radio on cable, recorded jazz, pop etc, & home theatre.  All ideas welcome, new or old kit.

Thanks & best regards

Richard

Frank Van Alstine (who has a circle here at AC) makes a compact ss integrated amp.  I am using Frank's hybrid stuff to drive a pair of RM30s, and the combination is excellent.

http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/control_amplifier/index.htm

[Brad]

As a former RM2 owner, I'd recommend 200wpc+ from a nice high-current ss amp
(I had a fairly large room at the time too)

Isn't there a 'powered' option for the RM2's now?
That lets you use a plate amp for the woofer, freeing up the mids/highs for a nice tube amp

[jonbee]

I use a PS Audio GCC100 for my RM30s with fabulous results. You might want the GCC250 if you want more power.
Very low power useage, great control, very detailed and neutral.

[John Casler]

As a former RM2 owner, I'd recommend 200wpc+ from a nice high-current ss amp
(I had a fairly large room at the time too)

Isn't there a 'powered' option for the RM2's now?
That lets you use a plate amp for the woofer, freeing up the mids/highs for a nice tube amp

That is true.  We have the PBS (Powered Bass System 1000w) which actually is no longer a plate amp, but a separate modded component.

Looks like we will soon have a PBS jr system in 500w and 250w versions.

[rickkuy]

Hi Richard--
I've got a CA 2010 that I'm currently using to power my RM-30's. It does the job just fine for moderate listening levels-- but if you have a big room and/or you want to blow your brains out-- 120 watts just isn't going to cut it. The Yamaha is a good looking amp too, in a retro kind of way. Lots of knobs and switches, all of which I understand, as opposed to my super-groovy Denon 3802 7 channel receiver which forces you to scroll thru 6 sub menu's to change certain settings. And has a manual that's about as easy to read as the Koran.
If 120 watts works for you volume-wise, stick with it. There's a lot of bs out there about how amps "sound"-- based on the double blind listening tests I've read, it's non-sense. There are a lot of people that want to believe in Santa Claus though.
--Rick.

[soarertoy]

Hi Rick,
Has your ca2010 been updated or modified in any way, as it must be 30 years old by now?  In the only test I ever saw, it gave 135 watts into 8ohms & 250 watts rms into 4ohms, so on paper it has  adequate power.

Best regards

Richard

[Roko]

Hi,
As I've recently moved to VMPS speakers, could anyone advise me on any 'full feature' integrated SS amplifiers suitable in performance & power for RM2s & 626s?  I prefer an integrated pre/power amp to minimise the number of boxes, and have things like speaker switching, phono input, mono, balance, tone & headphone options.

Thanks

Richard

Hi,

I'm using Vecteur P-6 preamp and A-6 amp on my RM2 FST. This Vecteur pushes out 165 watts rms into eight ohms.The amplifier section uses complementary 2SK1058-2SJ162 Hitachi MOSFET output transistors, and works very good with my RM2, so my suggestion is to try some amp with MOSFET's on output stage.

http://www.clofis.nl/nl/vecteur/vecteur_versterker.htm

http://www.mutine.com/Index/indexen.html

http://www.mimetism.com/

http://www.mimetism.com/home-mimetism.html


Now I'm looking for some fine tube amp to try bi-amp configuration, I will leave Vecteur on bass and try to put some tubes on tweeters and midrange panels. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Roko

[soarertoy]

Hi,
Thanks for the info, since the original posting I have had my Yamaha CA2010 restored & updated and it now sounds fine.  Valve amps are not my area of expertise, but Conrad Johnson are usually good.  There are a lot of promising designs coming through from China, but check the reviews for any eccentricities.

Richard

[Waltlaw]

Isn't there a 'powered' option for the RM2's now?
That lets you use a plate amp for the woofer, freeing up the mids/highs for a nice tube amp

     Is there a problem with long runs of unamplified signal, and if so wouldn't powered speakers have to be fairly close to the source to avoid distortion?

[Roko]

Isn't there a 'powered' option for the RM2's now?
That lets you use a plate amp for the woofer, freeing up the mids/highs for a nice tube amp

     Is there a problem with long runs of unamplified signal, and if so wouldn't powered speakers have to be fairly close to the source to avoid distortion?

IMHO if you have a good preamp (or source), capable to "run" a long interconnects, and corectly made wires, there shouldn't be any problems...never than less, sometimes long speaker cables can input more signal loss and "distortion"...also, balanced topology of preamp and amp connected with XLR interconnects can help to reduce eventualy hum, noise...etc, etc, interconnects can also be shielded to reduce RF and EM interferencies...many audiophiles prefer longer IC-s and shorter speaker cables much more than otherwise...

[Hipper]

Our great leader prefers shorter interconnects/longer speaker cables. I quote from the VMPS site, FAQ.

Cable lengths?

I just did an installation with the RM 40 where the owner, for reasons of his own, had a 5m run of M350 interconnect to a subwoofer and another 5m run back to the power amp from the woofer line level out. In the bypass mode that meant 10m of interconnect between preamp and amp. The signal loss was amazing, including virtually the entire bass range. The level was down about 2dB according to the preamp volume control which had 1dB increments. Restoring the system to a 2m pair of IC's also restored all the music.

I am firmly in the short interconnect, long speaker wire camp.

[Roko]

Our great leader prefers shorter

Yes, I've already red that article and I think that depends on quality (topology) of the preamp, it's ability to run longer IC-s, output impendance of preamp and input impendance of amp...so many variables to count... however 10 meters is a quite lenght for interconnects and could be difficult to run signal through, in that case could be better to use longer speaker cable. For more often situation when we have a couple of meters lenght (1, 2, 2,5 or 3) things could be a little diferent and IMO man should try to experiment both versions, especialy if (good) balanced preamp runs balanced monoblocks...

[Construct]

I am considering an emotiva xpa-3 for a pair of rm2/fst in the future, they would fit into a budget.  I am concerned about long term reliability though. I have read some shaky things in their forum.  I feel safer saving for an AVA amp or some 200w outlaw monoblocks.

[John Casler]

I am considering an emotiva xpa-3 for a pair of rm2/fst in the future, they would fit into a budget.  I am concerned about long term reliability though. I have read some shaky things in their forum.  I feel safer saving for an AVA amp or some 200w outlaw monoblocks.

Hi Construct,

Loaded Question as it is a qualitative evaluation.

There is no doubt that the Emotiva amps are getting a lot of press as "value" performers.  To that end they seem to offer a "good" amp for the money.

If the question is, will they offer a similar performance to the better known amps used with VMPS like AMPZILLA, Plinius, Pass Labs, Bryston, Atmasphere, NuFORCE, W4S, etc, I doubt it.

But again, that said much depends on one's level of "audiophilia" and how golden your ears are.

I know that some highly unlikely candidates like the Earthquake CineNovas (a HT amp) were quite capable on the VMPS models.

The RM-2 powered with an amp that has high current, low distortion, high damping, low rise time, good square wave response, good slewing, and the best S/N ratio, will be an incredible listening experience.

One thing for certain is that if the VMPS speaker has a tunable and adjustable capability that will allow you to "maximize" the sonics from whatever amp you have.

[Construct]

Hi Construct,

Loaded Question as it is a qualitative evaluation.

There is no doubt that the Emotiva amps are getting a lot of press as "value" performers.  To that end they seem to offer a "good" amp for the money.

If the question is, will they offer a similar performance to the better known amps used with VMPS like AMPZILLA, Plinius, Pass Labs, Bryston, Atmasphere, NuFORCE, W4S, etc, I doubt it.

But again, that said much depends on one's level of "audiophilia" and how golden your ears are.

I know that some highly unlikely candidates like the Earthquake CineNovas (a HT amp) were quite capable on the VMPS models.

The RM-2 powered with an amp that has high current, low distortion, high damping, low rise time, good square wave response, good slewing, and the best S/N ratio, will be an incredible listening experience.

One thing for certain is that if the VMPS speaker has a tunable and adjustable capability that will allow you to "maximize" the sonics from whatever amp you have.

The top of my list are likely used AVA, Bryston, Outlaw and things along those lines.  There is no way (IMO) that a $500 China-made amp will have the quality/grade of parts/performance of the above amps.  I do not want to shortchange the RM2's potential, but I also have to be aware that in this economy, I can't sling around $$$$ for an amp.  I have a while to think about it, but the choice will be very easy if I happen to catch a deal in the coming months on something listed above. 

[Brax]

I used to run Carver TMF 35s on both my RM40s and RM2s and the sound was just ok. I have since upgraded to an Earthquake Cinenova Grande 5 and am very pleased (I also upgraded to a Meridian system which I think also made a huge difference). A high output amp with clean power (the more the better) will make the RMs sound great. The Cinenova is rated at 600 watts x5 at 4 ohms.