[se-riously]

Brad,

I have a near new Onix Melody SP3 if you're interested.  Just 21 hours of use.  I have all the packaging, and it's flawless.  E-mail me if interested.

[doug s.]

ymmv

How true.

Now as for your conversation with Steve, did that happen in the twilight zone?  or was it immediately after one of your more intense pentecostal revival meetings?   Were you sober?  Were you straight?  Because your conversation with Steve smells a little fishy.  I'm willing to bet there was a communication gap in which somebody didn't hear someone else correct.  What Steve told Srajan, he's been telling everyone for years.

It's common knowledge and has been so for a long time that the Zen amp mates best with a low impedance load.  And the cost to swap output transformers is around $100.  Having done that, with a fairly sensitive speakers, you've 2 of the finest watts on the planet.

normally, i don't get ruffled.  but, it really irks me when my veracity is questioned.

and, normally, i do not cut-n-paste emails from others, but in this case, i can't help it.  mebbe YOU should ask steve deckert about the following correspondence between myself & him, if the zen taboo amp works best w/low ohms...  you wanna BET?!?  how many million do you wanna put up?  i could certainly enjoy an early retirement!     i have email proof, you can check the links.  you're right something smells fishy - steve deckert STINKS!!!

my first email to him after our fone call:

From: douglas sedon [mailto:sedond@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 10:57 AM
To: Taboo@decware.com
Subject: taboo

Below is the result of your feedback form.  It was submitted by
douglas sedon (sedond@yahoo.com) on Monday, October 23, 2006 at 10:56:40
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message Body: : hi steve,

i wanted to thank you for the time you spent w/me on the fone last week,
when i queried you about a used taboo amp i was considering purchasing.
because of your assurances that they would work well w/97db 14 ohm speakers,
and the fact that i wouldn't be able to tell them apart from the latest
chassis version, i took the plunge.  :>)  i am looking forward to comparing
this amp w/my other lovely flea-power amps.  i also noticed you are fond of
the hi-vi research tweeters; as my speakers use a modified iteration of
these planer drivers, which i also happen to think are fantastic tweets, i
expect nice sounds from this combo.

but, i have a coupla questions:

1st, i noticed that srajan ebaen's review of the taboo in 6moons said that
this amp works best into low ohm speakers, with seeming loss of power into
higher ohm speakers.  this is in fact the exact opposite of what you told
me.  (personally, i suspect that, because his "low ohm" speakers were cut
off at ~100hz to powered subs, while his higher ohm speakers were not, that
this may be the reason he felt the higher ohm speakers lost power.)  what do
*you* think?  ;~)

2nd, i cannot remember if it's the the 12at7 or the 12au7 that you think
sounds best, assuming that i have enough gain (which i think i do.)

best,

doug s.

submit: Send!

my first (non) response back from him:
From: Steve Deckert <taboo@decware.com>
To: douglas sedon <sedond@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:15:11 AM
Subject: RE: taboo

Doug,

Hows that Taboo sounding?

Steve

my response back to steve (quite long & detailed, skip all but the last paragraph, if you're not interested in what i thought of a few amps, & the taboo) see next post - the text length has been exceeded:

doug s.

[doug s.]

(continued from above, re: steve deckert-doug sedon exchange):

From: doug sedon [mailto:sedond@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 9:57 AM
To: Steve Deckert
Subject: Re: decware zen taboo amp

hi steve,

thanks for getting back to me.

to be honest, i had mixed reaction to the taboo amp.  1st, there was the issue w/the taboo's insensitivity.  my preamp has a *lot* of gain (in fact, i had it modded to reduce its gain by 6db), yet this amp's relative insensitivity was such that i could have my preamp's volume pot 100% max'd out, & my tuner would still not go as loud as i like to listen sometimes.  similar but not quite so bad situation with my fono preamp.  with cd, this was not the case, i had adequate gain.  all this w/a vintage mullard 12ax7 - the possibility of using a lower gain driver tube like the 12at7 or 12au7 is totally out of the question in my set-up.

so, how did the amp sound?  1st, i will tell you my system.  denon cdp fed to a highly modded art di/o dac.  (i like this dac a lot - it has held its own against the likes of resolution audio, modded sony's, etc.)  preamp is a full-blown-modded melos ma333r w/a special porzilli-designed tube volume pot.  (this pot replaced the porzilli designed excellent sounding but notoriously unreliable "photentiometer".)  this is one component in my system i don't ever consider  changing.  output goes to a marchand xm9-ll 24db/octave crossover w/upgraded op-amps.  it sends low frequency signal (now set at 80hz) to a pair of electrocompaniet aw75dmb amps, each driving my vmps larger subs.  hi frequencies go to an amp driving my coincident research victory's. the victory's are on 10" stands, to get the better soundstaging properties of coincident's total victory, which is basically the same speaker, but w/built-in subs, and they're 10" taller.  :>)

i have several low-power & medium-power amps, but presently i am most familiar w/the almarro a205a mkll, as it's been in my system continuously for ~3 months, & for the six months prior, my main system was in storage.  my other amps include a pair of audio mirror 40w 6c33c monoblocks, a couple of low-power home-brew set amps, and a cool pair of vintage set amps pulled from an akai m8 r-t-r, which i configured to use as monoblocks, w/the help of a service manual & a guy i found on line that specializes in setting these amps up as pro-audio mic preamps.

1st, i will talk about fm/vinyl.  as i said before, i just couldn't get the proper gain needed for it.  fm sounded extremely thin at lower volumes, & i could have the volume max'd out totally, & it wasn't loud enough, & still thin sounding.

w/vinyl, i will give two examples.  i have a crappy recording - the doors greatest hits.  w/the taboo, it was not listenable - completely tonally wrong, very thin sounding, & not enough gain.  not that you would want it, it sounded so bad.  w/the almarro, it sounded bad, but it was listenable.  it was still a bit thin sounding - but at least you could listen & enjoy jim morrison do his thing.   then, there is a fine-sounding album, little feat's live-recorder *hoy hoy*.  (well, being recorded live, some cuts are more fine-sounding than others.)  this album was ok w/the taboo - it had similar gain thin-sound issues, as above, but it was still ok.  w/the almarro, it was fantastic.

w/cd, the taboo *was* nice.  no excuses needed.  if i didn't have something else to compare, i may have been a happy camper.  (of course there was the issue that i couldn't listen to vinyl, or fm, which is a big problem - >50% of my listening is to fm.)   but i *did* have something else to compare to, & the almarro basically outdid the taboo in every single area.  better dynamics.  better detail.  more natural tonal quality - the taboo seemed the tiniest bit thinner in comparison.   the almarro also had better soundstaging, especially depth & image location - there was more of a feeling that the musicians were there in the room w/you, instead of listening to a recording.  this was especially noticeable on a disc like the taj mahal/toumani diabate *koulanjan* recording.  when i 1st got my rig back up & running three months ago, & put on that cd, i was totally floored - i had never heard my rig (and very few others anywhere) so virtually totally disappear & just leave the musicians there in my room... ...when the opportunity presented itself to pick up a mint 6 months old taboo at a great price, i couldn't resist the urge!  so, the taboo was the next amp into my recently set up rig, replacing the almarro.  the musicians went away, recorded music returned.

i am wondering how much this is due to the issue of my speakers being 14 ohms, or due to the issue of the taboo being so insensitive, since i can't really even use the taboo listening to vinyl or fm.  (in fact, the almarro's gain is such that i use rothwell 10db attenuators between it & the marchand x-over, so i can keep its volume pot wide open.)

in any event, the taboo lasted only one week chez-sedon; it is already sold, headed to a new owner in sweden next week.  before i sold the amp, i specifically mentioned in my advertisement the issue of the taboo's insensitivity in my system, & i linked the 6moons review, so a careful buyer could see srajan's comments about the amp working better into low ohms.  hopefully, this buyer will have better results than i did.  (he told me he emailed you yesterday or the day before, w/some questions; you may want to try replying sooner than it took you to get back to me, as he lives in sweden , it may be hard for him to call you!  )

i think srajan ebaen was right.  this amp likely prefers speakers w/lower ohm ratings, not speakers like my 14 ohm rating.  actually, i find it odd that you would tell me one thing & tell someone else something different.

regards,

doug s.

steve's reply back to me (which i find baffling):
From: Steve Deckert <taboo@decware.com>
To: doug sedon <sedond@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 5:48:00 PM
Subject: RE: decware zen taboo amp

Doug,

Thank you for detailed feedback, I appreciate it.  I do regret that the amp didn’t work out for you but at the same time I understand the reason why.  It wasn’t your speaker load that was the problem.  The Taboo is ideally suited for 8 ohm speakers.  It will do 4 ohm and 16 ohm, but would rather see 16 ohms then 4.  I’m not sure how the 6 moons review got listed as lower is better.  While that is true with many of our amps, it is not true with the Taboo.

The taboo was designed to be driven by a preamp.  It likes plenty of gain driving it, and it relies on that gain to achieve proper performance, specifically weight and dynamics.  We usually set it up with our CSP2 preamp with the preamp output set to 4 volts.

Steve

my final reply back to steve (note he never didanswerr my last question...):
hi steve,

thanks for your response.  re: how the 6moons review got listed with "lower is better", is because, according to srajan, he got better results w/his 6 ohm load speakers than with his 12 ohm load speakers, queried you about it, & you told him this was to be expected w/the taboo.

if my 14 ohm load speakers are not the problem, i do not understand the reason why.  you say you do; i would surely like to know what it is.  i know it's not my preamp - it has a *ton* of gain, even w/it being modded to reduce gain by 6db.  as i said, i reduce the gain of my almarro w/10db attenuators, so i can keep its built-in volume pot wide open...  i rarely turn my pre's volume pot past 12 o'clock w/the almarro - or any other amp, for that matter, because the pre has so much gain...  it gets LOUD...

regards,

doug

your mileage won't wary...

doug s.

[Wind Chaser]

The Taboo isn't a Zen.

The Zen works best with a low impedance load (4 ohms or less) unless you have the EX Mod.

The Taboo works better with 8 to 16 ohm loads, but like Steve said, it requires 4 volts to bring it to full power.  Obviously you didn't have that.  The fact that your Almarro could play loud with your pre simply means it doesn't require as much gain from the pre to reach full output.

[doug s.]

The Taboo isn't a Zen.

The Zen works best with a low impedance load (4 ohms or less) unless you have the EX Mod.

The Taboo works better with 8 to 16 ohm loads, but like Steve said, it requires 4 volts to bring it to full power.  Obviously you didn't have that.  The fact that your Almarro could play loud with your pre simply means it doesn't require as much gain from the pre to reach full output.

my pre had so much gain before i modded it, it could drive speakers directly, w/o an amp.  i dunno its woltage output, but it still has a ton of gain.  i have to use 10db attenuators w/my almarro; i still get plenty of gain.  there was enough gain w/my cd system (outputs 2v) and the zen; it yust didn't compare sonically in any way, to the almarro.  w/97db-efficient speakers & my melos ma333 pre, i should not have had any gain issues w/the taboo amp.

and, please explain to me steve deckert's comments to me, & his comments to srajan, regarding the taboo.  comments that are directly contradictory.  i find it curious that steve never got back to me after my final email to him.  actually, if i think about it, i really do not find it that curious...     or, mebbe you think it's srajan that's delusional?   

doug s.

[Brad]

Hey Guys,

Just got back to this thread.
Given that the speakers will be an 8 ohm load, the Zen with the EX mods would be the only Decware I would recommend to my friend.
I am investigating the Sophia - it looks like it only has one input however.

I'll be taking a look at the other suggestions as well.
The Onix was already on my list.
Doug's 4.5wpc SET also bears checking into.

Thanks to all who replied, both in the thread and via PM.

Brad in Houston

[doug s.]

Hey Guys,

Just got back to this thread.
Given that the speakers will be an 8 ohm load, the Zen with the EX mods would be the only Decware I would recommend to my friend.
I am investigating the Sophia - it looks like it only has one input however.

I'll be taking a look at the other suggestions as well.
The Onix was already on my list.
Doug's 4.5wpc SET also bears checking into.

Thanks to all who replied, both in the thread and via PM.

Brad in Houston

the aria amp has two inputs...

here's a typical one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300199263956




this guy usually has the most reasonable shipping costs:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310025338125

search "6p14 tube" & find a lot (the yaqin amp also looks nice...)
http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&dfsp=2&catref=C6&from=R10&trg=-1&_trksid=m37&satitle=6P14+tube&sacat=293%26catref%3DC6&fts=2&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&sabfmts=1&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=2%26fsoo%3D2&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search

doug s.

[Brad]

One of the Yaquins from Hong Kong on eb@y also has a headphone output.
The MC-84L

I hadn't seen the Glow AMP 1 that Russell posted - love the looks of that one, plus it has headphone out.
Limited to one RCA and one USB in.

I also like the Peachtree Decco, although it's a little out of the price range.
With Scott Nixon involved, I bet it sounds pretty good.

AND, just added the Vista Audio i84 to the short list

Thanks again to all who have PM'ed and posted.

[Brad]

We decided on the Yaqin with the 6v6 tubes
12.5wpc of vacuum tube goodness

It should be fine for his first tube system.


Any recommendations for 6v6GT tubes?
Looks like the Tung-sol and the TAD are getting pretty good reviews.

[carusoracer]

Hey Guys,

Just got back to this thread.
Given that the speakers will be an 8 ohm load, the Zen with the EX mods would be the only Decware I would recommend to my friend.
I am investigating the Sophia - it looks like it only has one input however.

I'll be taking a look at the other suggestions as well.
The Onix was already on my list.
Doug's 4.5wpc SET also bears checking into.

Thanks to all who replied, both in the thread and via PM.

Brad in Houston

the aria amp has two inputs...

here's a typical one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300199263956




this guy usually has the most reasonable shipping costs:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310025338125

search "6p14 tube" & find a lot (the yaqin amp also looks nice...)
http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&dfsp=2&catref=C6&from=R10&trg=-1&_trksid=m37&satitle=6P14+tube&sacat=293%26catref%3DC6&fts=2&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&sabfmts=1&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=2%26fsoo%3D2&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search

doug s.

How does this Amp compare to the Sophia Baby?  I looked at the data and it is nice to have the additional inputs from the Mini. In other words are the internals the same and would it have the same sonics as the well reviewed Sophia? 
I would like to have the additional outputs to Bi Amp. Both appear to be nice looking aesthetically. $150 shipping, ouch!

Nice finds

[doug s.]

that certainly looks like a sweet amp.  my home-brew 4.5wpc set amp has wintage 6v6 tubes; i have never tried rolling them.  wintage 6v6 tubes are cheap, i know nothing about the modern iterations...  these tubes are supposed to be pretty-much the same as el84's electronically...





doug s.

We decided on the Yaqin with the 6v6 tubes
12.5wpc of vacuum tube goodness

It should be fine for his first tube system.


Any recommendations for 6v6GT tubes?
Looks like the Tung-sol and the TAD are getting pretty good reviews.

[doug s.]

How does this Amp compare to the Sophia Baby?  I looked at the data and it is nice to have the additional inputs from the Mini. In other words are the internals the same and would it have the same sonics as the well reviewed Sophia? 
I would like to have the additional outputs to Bi Amp. Both appear to be nice looking aesthetically. $150 shipping, ouch!

Nice finds

afaik, this amp is pretty-much identical to the sophia bebe - same basic amp.

you have to be patient to find one w/the best overall cost, shipping included.  several sellers sell this gear...  one sold a coupla days ago w/free shipping for $160...

doug s.