What to buy

Tubes 4 Ever · « **on:** 20 Feb 2008, 03:12 pm »

OK I want to go with a single driver speaker but I have no time or talent for the DIY route. I currently have a Music Reference EM7, 2.5 watt version and want a decent single driver speaker that I can purchase ready made or have the ability to buy the drivers and cabinets ready made. I want to stay south of $500. My listening area changes daily based on what space my wife is willing to give me

not really but it is small area in my basement about 20X12. Any suggestions? I have done the google thing and find lots of setups for big wallets but am not finding much in the lower buget area. Help a guy out with some suggestions. Oh and by the way I do not speak dB jargon or that sort of thing I just know what I like for sound and could care less about what the specs say. I love jazz, vocals ocassion classical.

floobydust · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Feb 2008, 03:50 pm »

Well, with 2.5 watts of power, you probably should learn a bit about the dB thing and look at some of the Fostex drivers as they are very common in lower cost systems. Driver sensitivity is critical with low power amplifiers and directly limits your usable SPLs in the listening room. I would suggest you look at speakers with a sensitivity of 95dB/w/m or better. As far as a suggestion goes.... look at Ed's Hornshoppe Horns... granted a bit out of your price range but they are a well-accepted design using a Fostex FE126. It gives you an idea of what to expect on price/performance.

Regards, KM

mcgsxr · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Feb 2008, 06:29 pm »

Used Horns from Ed would do it well, I would hunt for those. There is a set right now here, in our Classifieds...

Else, you are looking at some used Omega speakers, Louis does some nice work.

Outside that, you are looking for other people's DIY work, with high enough efficiency to leverage the 2.5 wpc well.

I use an older SE Maggie amp, so I am inside 5wpc too, and have had lots of fun with OB DIY.

chrisby · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Feb 2008, 08:08 pm »

20x12 is a lot larger than many of us have to play with in our man-caves

As mentioned, Ed's Horns (with FE126E specifically) should work quite well - there is unquestionably something magic about a well executed FR system with drivers of this size, regardless of design type, but at power levels in the single digits, where even fractions count, sensitivity can be a huge issue.

There are many happy owners running Hornshoppe horns with Zen Select / Bottlehead SEX amp levels of power, but as Ed has repeatedly noted, they're not "girly-man" speakers, and can certainly handle much larger amps.

However, if budget constraints preclude upgrading amp(s), and limit your expenditure on speakers, it could be that you might need to consider both a DIY speaker build, and the increased sensitivity of the next size up FR sized driver. i.e. something like the FE166E in any of a number of simple cabinets - the BIB is the first that comes to mind. If it's a basement room where aesthetics are not a prime concern, a couple of sheets of raw plywood or particle board (please don't use MDF) and you're done.

acresm22 · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Feb 2008, 08:18 pm »

In addition to used Horns and Omegas (both great options), there are also the Tekton Design speakers to consider. I've not heard them, but some ACers have tried these and commented favorably. Do a search on ebay...he usually has a pair based on the fostex fe127 4.5" driver for around $300.

acresm22 · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Feb 2008, 08:25 pm »

One more thing...my sis-in-law is using a pair of Omega Super 3 speakers that also use the FE127 4.5" driver, powering them with a Vista Audio i82 amp (similar power rating to the Music Reference em7 amp, I think). She loves the system...and was able to buy the Omega's used for around $375 (and in that beautiful black parisian maple finish).

Tubes 4 Ever · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Feb 2008, 01:21 am »

I don't need to worry about WAF friendly in my man cave. Amp change is not wanted but not totally out of the question. Thus far all great suggestions, I wish I had better wood working tools and skills. No rush to buy just trolling for a little advise.

nodiak · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Feb 2008, 02:09 am »

If you post the area you live in maybe a diy'er will be nearby and can help build the cab's or baffles. Maybe some trade. I would if you were near me, and I'm not just saying that because you probably aren't !

You could get a nice pair of speakers for $100-300 that way. Hemptone 4.5" or 8", or Fostex might do it for you.
Just thought I'd throw this out.
Don

pardales · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Feb 2008, 02:49 am »

I have these two pairs for sale:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=51059.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50804.msg455604#msg455604

PM me if you want to talk about either pair. I can send you a picture of the Omega's if you PM me your email address.

Best.

chrisby · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Feb 2008, 05:22 pm »

Quote from: nodiak on 22 Feb 2008, 02:09 am

If you post the area you live in maybe a diy'er will be nearby and can help build the cab's or baffles. Maybe some trade. I would if you were near me, and I'm not just saying that because you probably aren't !
You could get a nice pair of speakers for $100-300 that way. Hemptone 4.5" or 8", or Fostex might do it for you.
Just thought I'd throw this out.
Don

this is an excellent suggestion

Hemptone / Hemp Acoustic drivers are both great performers, but for considerably lower cost, the 4.5" Fostex FE126E / FE127E, or 6" FE166/FE167 "not quite twins" are pretty big bang for the buck. While more elaborate enclosure designs can deliver stunning results, the "nn7" models can work well in relatively small and easy to construct boxes.

If you're not handy in the woodshop, or can't find a local builder to work with, the new Parts Express curved cabinets represent great value - fairly well built, and very nicely finished; all you'd need is to cut the driver opening and add a bit of stuffing / port & terminals.

$240 per pair:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=302-733

$130 per pair:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=271

chrisby · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Feb 2008, 06:00 am »

Nodiak: I just noticed on your signature line that your amp is an Eddie Vaughn EL84SE - if that's not a Carina, I'd imagine it's close to the same flavour.

FWIW you might want to contact Obi Vaughn and inquire regarding the little Fostex FE127E based stand-mounter speakers that are part of his hi-fi harem.

planet10 · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Feb 2008, 08:25 am »

The curved PE boxes are really quite well done, even if they are made of MDF. The secret is that the panels are either small (the back), irregularily shaped (top & bottom) or curved (the sides). The sides are also made of MDF plywood (6 layers of 1/8" MDF).

Chris & i are working on pre-done baffle kits (with drivers) for these. CSS FR125 (7 litre), FE127eN (14 litre) & FE167eN (28 litre).

dave

JLM · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Feb 2008, 11:26 am »

Hawthorne Silver Iris are efficient speakers meant for simple open baffles, easily within your price/skill range I should think. Just cut a 15 inch diameter hole into a 24 inch by 24 inch piece of plywood and prop it up on the floor. However, these are coaxials, not true single drivers. As open baffles sitting on the floor, you'll need significant open space around them for ideal playback.

Another option would be look at Bob Brines' offerings (somewhat out of your price range for assembled/unfinished cabinets for Fostex single drivers designs, either floorstanding transmission lines or standmounted bass reflex for the bigger, more efficient (and better IMO) Fostex drivers:

http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/

Don't forget to factor in the cost of stands.

And boy, do I agree with the first reply: with a 2.5 wpc amp you'd better learn about dBs/watts/etc. or be prepared to be disappointed with that fine but flea powered amp. Honestly I'd be increasing your speaker budget 3 or 4 fold to do justice to the amp (or look into using headphones).

Tubes 4 Ever · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Feb 2008, 03:25 pm »

Thanks for all the great suggestions, but I should clarify something. It is not that I do not understand the numbers it is just that most of the time the numbers are created by manufactureres to dazzle the dumb and impress the smart. I have been in or around the audio world for about 35 years or so, 5 of which I was a evil salesman who I am embarrassed to say duped more than one person with numbers. The bottom line is I feel very strongly real world experience is the answer and not get caught up in the hype. The best sounding set up I have ever owned was a pair of Bottlehead Paramours and Altec A7's, man talk about sound. But downsizing and job loss put me in a position that makes me look for small more accommodating size of speakers. Hope I don't piss off someone but really I would just like to hear what people think. Thanks

mcgsxr · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Feb 2008, 03:34 pm »

I think that the suggestions made about looking at the Fostex drivers, combined with the Parts Express boxes represent a great step forward for what could be a nice music making system with your lovely amp.

Their legit higher efficiency, coupled with the value of the nice looking boxes (tuned for some extra bass) would be a good little system.

Tubes 4 Ever · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Feb 2008, 03:41 pm »

I think the PE new curved boxes look pretty nice. I actually live about 15 mins from the warehouse and can put hands on the cabs so that is a plus. I have no experience with Fostex drivers at all, but one can't ignore the huge following they have,

floobydust · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Feb 2008, 04:40 pm »

Well, what do I think.... if you understand the sensitivity, power, etc. then you should already have an idea of what sensitivity you're looking for in a single-driver speaker versus the SPLs you expect to listen at with power in hand. As others have suggested the new Parts Express boxes are cost effective and make for a quick and easy project. Now you need to pick a driver... the more difficult part. I've got quite a few Fostex drivers which include the FE126E (in Ed's horns), the FX120, F120A and assorted others down to the FF85K.

For me, despite the lower sensitivity, the F120A is the hands down winner... it's also very expensive per driver (Alnico...), but with a nicely tuned ported enclosure they will deliver great value. The down side is sensitivity, rated at 89dB/1W/1m, they may not deliver the SPLs you're looking for, that's your call. I've powered them with 2-watt 45 amps and they shine right down to their tuning.

Well, that's what I think.... good luck with your search, hope you find something great, post back with the finals results.

Regards, KM

JLM · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Feb 2008, 11:58 am »

I drove my Fostex F200A (big brother of F120A with slightly better efficiency and more bass) with a 7 wpc amp for awhile. Sounded very good, but no comparison to 40 watts a side (polite dinner guest turned into NFL linebacker with a PhD). This is a place where the numbers don't lie. You really need to size the amp to provide a commanding grip on the speaker for output, dynamics, and resolution.

The big alnico magnets in the F120A/F200A add warmth and foundational bass make those other Fostex drivers sound like mid/tweeters. According to others, either F120A or F200A can be used in open baffle. Later on Louis can (search AC for examples) build BR standmounted cabinets for the F120A.

Larger drivers are more efficient and go lower. Folks acclimate (delude themselves) to accepting lack of bass, but to me sub 5 inch drivers truly need a sub. And these smaller drivers are too inefficient to provide realistic live music spls with 2.5 wpc. The Tekton suggestion with FE167 (6 inch) drivers for $350/pair is good idea (to go as big as you can for the money). I've heard the FE167 in other cabinets and it'll do jazz (won't do justice to bass heavy rock or deep organ).

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Feb 2008, 05:27 pm »

Quote from: floobydust on 23 Feb 2008, 04:40 pm

For me, despite the lower sensitivity, the F120A is the hands down winner... it's also very expensive per driver (Alnico...), but with a nicely tuned ported enclosure they will deliver great value. The down side is sensitivity, rated at 89dB/1W/1m, they may not deliver the SPLs you're looking for, that's your call. I've powered them with 2-watt 45 amps and they shine right down to their tuning.

For less than what the F120A will cost, you really might want to consider the Jordan 92. The Jordan's have way more X-max (3X) and bass extension well below 40Hz is possible in a MLTL. Do a search on DIY Audio and you'll find plenty of information.

JLM · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Feb 2008, 06:03 pm »

WC,

Have you bench tested a Jordan 92? I ask because I've read of several compliants of E. J. Jordan specifications for the dirver as being very "generous". And last I checked, they've gotten rather pricey, no thanks to the weak U.S. dollar. The concept of an alumimum foil driver is interesting though.