[Daygloworange]

2.  What associated equipment do you own?  There is always that synergy thing to deal with...

I think the OP's intent here is to focus on getting the (sic) best playback transducer he can find (an approach I fully endorse). The speaker is the foundation of a good system. Next is the room. Without that, evaluating front end gear is a handicapped affair.

4.  Don't assume you have to spend 10K to get something stellar

He's allotted a nice budget so that he doesn't limit his choices greatly. Although not a precise yardstick, more money allows him to look at speakers that use better parts, drivers, enclosure materials and construction techniques, which all influence a speaker's capability both subjectively, and objectively.

5.  Going to RMAF is a good idea (however flawed the listening environment may be).  It can provide you with a feel for things.  Then try and get an in home audition...that is really key.

You can get a really good idea on what is not worth even contemplating in pretty short order, despite the less than ideal room conditions.

6.  I agree with BrianM that the actual differences between speakers are grossly exaggerated.  The fact is that there are a lot of stellar speakers out there and we are spoiled rotten...

I believe the first statement is sometimes true, but I'll have to disagree with the second.

I totally agree with Double Ugly here. Having heard a lot of speakers at RMAF (while sitting in the sweet spot, and listening to the reference discs I brought), there were only a handful of speakers I would deem stellar in terms of true high performance audio reproduction. I was actually surprised to find the discrepancy.

I think the opposite to Geardaddy's comment, I think we are in fact deluged with average performing speakers, which then makes choosing one all about mitigating the shortfalls.

I still recommend going to RMAF, and auditioning with your favorite recordings. Only you will know when the right speaker for you comes along.

Cheers

[BrianM]

It's like watching people talk about women.  Someone walked in and said: "Which women are the best: brunettes, blondes or redheads?  I can't date all of them to find out."  And the responses become a mixture of "that's an impossible question" and "the type of woman I married is the best." 

Well, there you go.  Reducing a woman to the color of her hair!  Kind of like defining a speaker by the fact that it's a dipole, or a line array, open baffle, horn loaded, 2-way, etc etc.  At the end of the day the things play music, and the stellar ones all play music very very well.  How aware are you that you're sitting listening to a dipole (i.e. sleeping with "a blonde") or whatever.

[Daygloworange]

At the end of the day the things play music, and the stellar ones all play music very very well.  How aware are you that you're sitting listening to a dipole (i.e. sleeping with "a blonde") or whatever.

I agree with this as well. There are different types of designs, each with strengths and weaknesses. Listening is the final barometer to a consumer.

You have to remove as many biases prior to listening to give every speaker a fair shot, but having said that, being an educated consumer can help shorten the list of speakers to audition. There are some facts about speakers that you can't overlook.

Cheers

[BrianM]

DU, DGO, I'm not suggesting we're awash in stellar speakers.  But I think there are arguably enough to pick through in this price range, and not feel deprived of a real choice.  I know Double Ugly agrees, as his beloved Timepieces go for $5k.  From my perspective top-of-line speakers used to command price tags of $20 grand and up.  That, of course, was always assuming a fat dealer markup.

[woodsyi]

It's like watching people talk about women.  Someone walked in and said: "Which women are the best: brunettes, blondes or redheads?  I can't date all of them to find out."  And the responses become a mixture of "that's an impossible question" and "the type of woman I married is the best." 

Of course, the woman I married is the best for me.  Just in case she peaks in here. 

Since I have heard different "live" sounds at different venues, I don't know what sound is more realistic.  It comes down to what sound you like the best and I think there are many different ways to get there.  I would think that implementing associated gears including the room with a given type of speaker technology is more important.  So my answer would be that several different speaker technologies will get you there.  With 10k budget it will be fun working on it.  Sorry I don't have any definitive answer.  Good luck.

[Housteau]

I find that dipoles have a definite character to them that for me creates an envelopment of the acoustic space beyond the speakers themselves.  Add to that nice point source type of imaging and that is what the VMPS RM-V60s do for me.  I was not present during most of the recordings that I listen to.  So, I only have a best guess at what sounds I am supposed to hear.  What was the engineers intent?  What was their idea of a realistic presentation?  Should the image be up front, or recessed, liquid or more coarse?  I don't know these things and so I tune my system to the best average of everything that I value.

About 25 years ago I was able to do some live recording.  I know how those original secessions sounded.  Those old recording still sound stellar today and help serve to keep me on the straight and narrow.  When I get those to sound right, everything else seems to click as well.

I have found that dipoles with a line source to present the most convincing illusion of reality in my room.  What I think is also very important is the ability to individually tune the speakers to each individual room and associated equipment.  I think it is absurd that so many speakers are non-adjustable.  How in the world can one speaker set a particular way be expected to do well in so many different environments?

With mine I can adjust the amount of the dipole nature of the speaker system, change the balance between the high, mid, upper bass and lower bass, etc.  Each can be set be be optimum with each amplifier if one chooses to multiamp. 

I believe that the 'ideal' and most 'realistic' speaker should have the ability for adjustment for each owners particular environment and equipment.

[Geardaddy]

I totally agree with Double Ugly here. Having heard a lot of speakers at RMAF (while sitting in the sweet spot, and listening to the reference discs I brought), there were only a handful of speakers I would deem stellar in terms of true high performance audio reproduction. I was actually surprised to find the discrepancy.

I think the opposite to Geardaddy's comment, I think we are in fact deluged with average performing speakers, which then makes choosing one all about mitigating the shortfalls. 

DGO, I have to disagree with you.  Deeming a speaker unlistenable or stellar is an often capricious process.  Case in point:  one room at RMAF that was thought to be best of show by a multitiude was thought to be unlistenable by a chief editor of one of the major magazines (based on one of his test CDs).  He told a friend of mine that he could only listen to one particularly revealing track for less than 15 seconds.  So what is going here?  There has been and will always be an element of solipsism and self-delusion in audio land....I still maintain that there are many potentially or subjectively stellar products out there to keep people happy.  Happy trails Leroy....

[BradJudy]

DGO, I have to disagree with you.  Deeming a speaker unlistenable or stellar is an often capricious process.  Case in point:  one room at RMAF that was thought to be best of show by a multitiude was thought to be unlistenable by a chief editor of one of the major magazines (based one one of his test CDs).  He told a friend of mine that he could only listen to one particularly revealing track for less than 15 seconds.  So what is going here? 

I had a similar experience once at RMAF.  A lot of people loved the MBL room, but I walked in and one of the MBL guys put on a track that was the most horribly sibilant singing I've ever heard.  I couldn't stand to listen to it and left.  Since I've heard their room a couple of times on other years, I attribute it more to the track chosen. 

[mcullinan]

lol
Leroys head is about to explode at any minute! I have a feeling this thread will hit 300 pages +
hehe
Mike

[Geardaddy]

No doubt mcullinan ...verbage overload...

[lonewolfny42]

Consider buying a ~ $2000 used/new pair of speakers that are popular and will have good resale (you probably have seen or heard some that have attracted your attention). Live with them a few weeks or so and then discover what they do and don't do for you. Then come back and ask what others would recommend based on your experience with that speaker and what more you want, with a bigger budget. I think this is a good idea because it's unlikely you'll get it right the first time. Sell 'em and take another shot at it.
I agree with doug s. about a powered sub (breaking a rule here but at least look at Rythmik sub kits.)
Good luck, Don

If you check Leroy's past post history, you'll see what he has tried....a few good speakers, and other equipment. In fact there is a pair of speakers for sale by him now....

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=49386.0

Leroy....Since you are close to NYC (N.J.)...I'd suggest a visit to a few audio stores there....to hear different speakers...and get some ideas...

Go and listen....

[nodiak]

hey man, i take it all back.    Far be it for me to recommend anything to Leroy, now that i see he has more experience with, money to purchase, and occassion to hear speakers than i. 

[lonewolfny42]

hey man, i take it all back.    Far be it for me to recommend anything to Leroy, now that i see he has more experience with, money to purchase, and occassion to hear speakers than i. 

Leroy just needs to go hear a few more speakers....then get an idea of what "sound" he seeks....then go from there. There's no perfect speaker....if there was....we would all own the same ones...  

[nodiak]

Agreed Wolfy  I think Leroy will end up with some fantastic speakers! Leroy, I hope you will tell about the hunt too!
Don

[Geardaddy]

I like where this is going....Leroy, you owe us a report of your findings and final decision...

[Wind Chaser]

For Realistic Speaker Technology, try Radio Shack

[pbrstreetgang]

The LX-4s are REALISTIC

[Rx8man]

SP Technology, maybe the big Avalons or Apogees (your mileage may vary)

[Zheeeem]

I need some help, because I am now more confused than ever.  I am in the market for new speakers, and have about $10,000 to spend, more or less.  I am looking for the most "realistic", "true-to-life", "you-are-there", quality speaker there is, at that price.  But the sheer number of speaker companies, speaker technologies, and speakers out there is mystifying, stupefying, and bewildering, so my search has been extremely confusing. 

Well, if I were to pick the worst possible time to buy speakers, it would be whilst confused.  I'd recommend making a deal with yourself that you aren't going to buy new speakers for at least XX weeks, then take the time to sort things out, without the pressure you seem to be putting on yourself.

As has been noted, there are a lot of designs out there.  Properly executed, each of them can sound excellent in its own way, and equally each of them can suck.  But invariably, speaker manufacturers are forced to accept or make tradeoffs.

And, of course, we all have our preferences.

In my own case, I do NOT prefer horns or metal drivers in the midrange.  I do prefer cones for bass.  Having had various maggies for 30+ years, I have come to associate dipoles with both speed and a certain amount of pleasantness (though I really don't like the tradeoffs one tends to accept with maggies).

In my last speaker search, because I didn't want to use an external sub, I figured I would be after a 3-way system.  And considering the above, I was probably looking at:

tweeter - fabric or ribbon
mid - carbon/paper cone or dipole
woofer - cone
a crossover of some sort, probably 1st or 4th order, matched to drivers
solid well constructed cabinets, preferrably good looking

(However, for a very long time electrostatics (Quads) were on my list because they sound gorgeous.  I also seriously considered building full-rangers.)

Then I spent a few months researching what was available in my price range, communicating with owners, trying to understand the manufacturers' design philosophy and, once I made my short list, communicating with (some) manufacturers.  Of course, this all needed to fit in my (smallish) room and match up with my electronics.

In the end, I had a short list of 4 speakers from 4 different companies.  I did not listen to them because they were not all available locally, and I have found that listening in someone else's environment (especially a sales environment) is not a good predictor of sound in my home and tends to be somewhat stressful.  I am reasonably certain that I would have been happy with any of them.  The speakers I bought met all of my design considerations (plus a number of positive things I had not considered).  The manufacturer was great to work with, and we worked out a few upgrades and adjustments.  He also gave me a return guarantee.  And I love the speakers.  OK, maybe I'm just rationalizing my investment.  But I think it's far more likely that my patient research paid off.

Good luck, and enjoy the journey.

[Geardaddy]

Zheeeem, I think that's sound advice.  Patience is a virtue after all.  I did something similar...spent months and months researching and listening and then was fortunate enough to be offered an in home trial (which lasted 3 months).  I was able to A+B things ....flop equipment in and out...have friends involved...including my wife.., etc.  In retrospect, I am amazed how often I was enamored with a speaker at first blush only later to be disappointed.