For Japanese knife enthusiasts....

SET Man · « **Reply #100 on:** 17 Dec 2010, 04:14 am »

Quote from: tmij on 16 Dec 2010, 02:30 am

Got this on my email today, 20% off Coupon from the Japanese Culinary Center in NYC. The only place in NY where you can find Tsukiji Masamoto.

Hey!

I've heard about this but never been there. Maybe I will check it out soon. Don't know if I will buy anything... well maybe

Take care,
Buddy

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #101 on:** 17 Dec 2010, 08:48 am »

Slightly OT but still knife related...I just finished sharpening a couple for one of the new line cooks. The first was a chef's knife by Icel- I'll admit that's not a brand I've ever seen before. He got it at culinary school. It's pretty much the equivalent of a Forschner or Dexter, stamped, no distal taper. I started with a 500 grit Shapton GlassStone and cut an even bevel, then deburred a bit on an Idahone ceramic rod. Then I cut thru a block of hard felt, followed by stropping on hard felt impregnated with 1/8 micron Cubic Boron Nitrate. This does a really good job of cleaning off the burr- it would shave hair very cleanly with a 500 grit edge. I then finished with a 2k Naniwa Aotoshi ("Green Brick") and a quick strop. A pretty nice edge for a glorified house knife. I will the knife wasn't in awful shape. The kid who owns it has a 1k/4k combo water stone (or 1k/6k, I forget) which he used on his knives. The bevel wasn't super clean but it cut well. I'd say he's the only guy in the restaurant save myself that really understands how to sharpen. With some practice he won't need me to do his knives.

He had another one for me to do, a Masahiro. This one was used very little and just at home. He was afraid to try to sharpen it because it's a heavily biased, differentially beveled blade- about 80/20 (ie 80% of the edge on the right side, 20% on the left). This can be intimidating to nOObish sharpeners but ultimately you don't do anything really different. You just start on the right side and follow the bevel, then flip it over and essentially deburr like you might with a yanagi-ba. I worked thru my standard Chocera progression: 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k Naniwa Jyunpaka (aka "Snow White", not a Chocera but a sweet stone), finishing on the 10k. Then I switched to felt with 1/8 micron CNB at a higher angle, then lowered the angle again and hit it with 2 different balsa strips- 0.5 micron Chromium Oxide, then 0.25 HA diamond. I finished with another higher angle pass with the felt/CNB. I feel this gives a very minute amount of convex/microbevel to the edge, hopefully making it last a bit longer.

The resulting edge was, if you'll forgive my non-PC language, retarded! The knife is a 210mm, and pretty damned thin. I think he'll be pretty surprised and pleased.

SET Man · « **Reply #102 on:** 18 Dec 2010, 04:57 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock on 17 Dec 2010, 08:48 am

Slightly OT but still knife related...

I don't think this is off topic at all.

Sharpening and maintaining should be part of owning good Japanese knives... well any good knife.

Wow! That is a very through sharpening process there. You must have sharpest knives at work!

I just sharpen my knives with Mizuyama 1K and 6K stones here.

Yes, I was a bit worry at first doing my carbon Misono of which have 70/30 edge I think. I think I kept it close to that so far. What I'm worry most is trying to keep the shape of the knife.

Also, I found that each knife respond differently when sharpening it. I sometime sharpen an 8" Shun Classic for one of the sous chef at my work and it feel very different when I do it and it seems that I just can't get it to be as sharp as my Misono carbon knife.

Anyway, I checked out chefknivestogo.com and saw balsa and paste but don't know anything about this stuff

Is this use to finish off knives to remove burr and give it a mirror finish? Well, I don't think I will spend time giving my carbon steel knife mirror finish anyway... it is pointless to do that I think

Take care,
Buddy

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #103 on:** 18 Dec 2010, 07:00 am »

Quote from: SET Man on 18 Dec 2010, 04:57 am

Also, I found that each knife respond differently when sharpening it. I sometime sharpen an 8" Shun Classic for one of the sous chef at my work and it feel very different when I do it and it seems that I just can't get it to be as sharp as my Misono carbon knife.

Yeah, good luck with that!

You will never, ever get a VG-10 Shun as sharp as a carbon Misono.

A Shun will take an acceptable edge but carbon it ain't.

IMOHO there are a few assorted powdered/tool steels that get about as sharp as carbon, but I don't think VG-10 or SG-2 are one of them. My semi-stainless Ichimonji TKC and Kagayaki CarboNext get about as sharp as carbon, perhaps a smidge less...it's so close it would hard to say either way.

Quote from: SET Man on 18 Dec 2010, 04:57 am

Anyway, I checked out chefknivestogo.com and saw balsa and paste but don't know anything about this stuff Is this use to finish off knives to remove burr and give it a mirror finish? Well, I don't think I will spend time giving my carbon steel knife mirror finish anyway... it is pointless to do that I think

Take care,
Buddy

Well, it can deburr. I use it to utilize compounds that are finer than any stone I have. For instance, the finest stone I own is a 30,000 grit Shapton Professional. In comparison, 0.25 Hand American micron diamond spray is about 64,000 grit; 0.125 micron CBN (Cubic Boron Nitrate) is about 128,000 grit. The CNB in interesting in that it both polishes and creates "bite" at the same time. How can it do dat?

I just know it does.

Occasionally I'll use a rock hard felt strop charged with the 0.25 Hand American diamond spray to deburr. It does seem to work better than the naked felt alone.

SET Man · « **Reply #104 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 02:45 am »

Hey!

OK, it had been a while talking about knives. Well, let's do a follow-up on my post #46 here on this thread that I posted back in July 2010, almost 4 years ago about my Misono 240mm Carbon.

So, here it is almost 4 years later...

My 240mm Misono Carbon Steel Gyuto Knives. by setpower1, on Flickr

The bottom one. To summed it up, I like it so much that I went back to Korin during their Holiday Sale later that year to pick up another one of which I still have it in the box, shown above top.

Yes, almost 4 years later I still use it. I cook for living now so I use it almost daily. As you can see it developed patina all around. It is a wonderful knife, light, agile and comfortable. It feels like an extension of my hand. It holds the edge well and easy to sharpen. I enjoy using it every time and not to mention that everyone who ever used it love it... well, with my permission of course.

It is no longer nice and shinny like it used to be but I don't care, that's what it should be. Funny that some people think that it is older than it is. Over the years I have came across other knives like Shun, Global, Henckels, Wusthof and etc, mostly from people I met and worked with at the end I feel more comfortable coming back to this one. Anyway, unfortunately the price of Misono's knives have gone up. Still at the current price I think it worth it. Luckily I got those two before the price increase.

Since we are at it....

Misono 240mm Carbon Gyuto, Tojiro 165mm Carbon Santoku, Kikuichi 270mm Yanagi. by setpower1, on Flickr

Here are my other two knives that I have and use. The middle one is Tojiro 165mm Santoku also carbon steel, I use this as my back up knife or when I'm in very tight space. I have to admit that I'm not use to this shorter style. The bottom is Kikuichi 270mm Yanagi, I rarely use this one.

Well, I'm set for a while with knives.

Take care,
Buddy

S Clark · « **Reply #105 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 03:14 am »

I picked up a Tojiro Shirogami Nakiri (Christmas present to myself). It's an inexpensive knife, but I like it better than the Global that now sit in a drawer. I've got to learn to use my waterstone better. I bought a Suehiro 6000, but I still get better results with my grand dad's ancient Austrian Franz Swaty razor stone that is really way too small for sharpening knives. The water stone just sits in it's box now.

bladesmith · « **Reply #106 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 06:00 am »

Sclark,

Love you my nikiri/nakiri. I'll post a pick tomorrow.
Diffenatly my favorite style.

Your knife looks very traditional. Very nice.

Bladesmith

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #107 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 06:35 am »

Hahaha! I have that same exact Nakiri! It was only like $50 or so but it takes a great edge. Edge retention isn't spectacular but it's so easy to sharpen that it's not a big deal. Love the Misono! Very nice patina. A buddy of mine at work has a very old pre-WWII Henkels that he got while in culinary school in the 80's. His instructor had cooked for Hitler, no bullshit! At any rate, the knife was pitted and very dark with patina and the handle had been dipped in red paint. It was a mess but I offered to clean it up for him. I took most of the patina and all of the red rust off on my grinder with surface conditioning belts. They're akin to green Scotchbrite pads and come in a several grits. Long and the short I got cleaned up, dipped the handle in Camilla oil and put a hair-popping edge on it. Turns out it's a fantastic knife!

Great carbon steel.

Guess my memory isn't what it should be- I thought you'd always been a pro cook, SET Man?

bladesmith · « **Reply #108 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 09:25 am »

Made this set years ago, kept the nakiri and sold the Santoku.

01 tool steel, my favorite kind of steel, with Honduras rose wood.

BobM · « **Reply #109 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 12:46 pm »

Korin is one great place for knives. The "mecca" so to speak.

Bought this one for my wife about 5 years ago and it is still her favorite over the set of Henkel's that we have in the kitchen. She likes the Japanese blades but prefer the European handles.

It's a Togiharu Santoku

bladesmith · « **Reply #110 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 02:56 pm »

This is the nicest nakiri I have ever made, sold it.

(The first one, in my previous post. Was my first nakiri. So it is sorta special. )

The hamon line in this knife was exquisite.

SET Man · « **Reply #111 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 03:00 pm »

Quote from: bladesmith on 11 Mar 2014, 09:25 am

Made this set a couple of years ago, kept the nakiri and sold the Santoku.

01 tool steel, my favorite kind of steel. I think it is Honduras rose wood, not sure.

Quote from: bladesmith on 11 Mar 2014, 02:56 pm

This is the nicest nakiri I have ever made, sold of course.

The hamon line was exquisite.

Hey!

Damn! Those are beautiful. Love the handles.

Take care,
Buddy

S Clark · « **Reply #112 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 03:08 pm »

Very beautiful work. Custom knives are a joy for a lifetime.

bladesmith · « **Reply #113 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 03:26 pm »

The first one, is a little crude, made with rosewood. It was my first nakiri. I am sentimental about it. But, the edge is outstanding. Great retention and easy to sharpen with a steel. I use it all of the time. Thin and light, works wonderfully.

The other is Amboyna burl, very sweet. Has the same steel, but has a round, more traditional handle,

SET Man · « **Reply #114 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 04:10 pm »

Quote from: Rob Babcock on 11 Mar 2014, 06:35 am

Hahaha! I have that same exact Nakiri! It was only like $50 or so but it takes a great edge. Edge retention isn't spectacular but it's so easy to sharpen that it's not a big deal. Love the Misono! Very nice patina. A buddy of mine at work has a very old pre-WWII Henkels that he got while in culinary school in the 80's. His instructor had cooked for Hitler, no bullshit! At any rate, the knife was pitted and very dark with patina and the handle had been dipped in red paint. It was a mess but I offered to clean it up for him. I took most of the patina and all of the red rust off on my grinder with surface conditioning belts. They're akin to green Scotchbrite pads and come in a several grits. Long and the short I got cleaned up, dipped the handle in Camilla oil and put a hair-popping edge on it. Turns out it's a fantastic knife! Great carbon steel.

Guess my memory isn't what it should be- I thought you'd always been a pro cook, SET Man?

Hey!

Rob, I've been cooking here and there since I was young for myself, family, friends and etc. But I've made a plunge in to pro culinary world about 7-8 years ago, still a baby compare to you I guess

Man! Learning from someone who used to cook for Hitler? Man! Now that's something you don't hear everyday

Talk about old carbon knives, one of the chef at work love the old big Sabatier knives. He told me he that he got one or two from garage sale for $2-3 each, than cleaned them up. But they are not for me for sure.

Yes, I got that Tojiro Santoku back when it was $39. I let my friend at work borrow it for a day and he left it wet and it rusted. So, I decided to take off the finish, but somehow I just can't get it to form patina like the Misono. It is not a bad knife even at $50, the blade is thin and can get very sharp, but like you said it doesn't hold the edge well. I used this as my back up knife or when I'm in tight space. But I have to admit that I have close call with this one often, so I don't think Santoku style is for me, so I rarely use it.

I might have to look for a new back up knife to use, maybe a cheaper stainless one.

As for maintaining them. I have 1000 and 6000 Mizuyama stones and I picked up a 500 from Chef's Knives to go, because people I know always ask me to sharpen their knives so that help to save me time with very dull knives.

BTW... can you recommend me a stone fixer? Korin is having a sale on Knives Accessories right now I might go check out a stone fixer there...

http://korin.com/Knives/Stone-Fixer_2

Anything you see that you think is good?

Take care,
Buddy

bladesmith · « **Reply #115 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 04:25 pm »

Set Man,

I got this pic from your post (#104).

Excellent set of knives. You can do about anything with those three styles.

I wish you continued success in your journey.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #116 on:** 11 Mar 2014, 08:32 pm »

Very nice work, Bladesmith! I really like the rustic look of the nakiri.

The cheap Tojiro is a good basic blade, but mine wasn't very flat when I got it. I had to bend it a bit to get it straight. If you get too much patina you can sometimes get if off with baking soda or Barkeeper's Friend and a green scrubbie. A belt sander is soooooo handy for repairs, sharpening and just lots of things.

My favorite stone fixer is a DMT XXC Dia-Sharp or an Atoma diamond plate. They cut fast and more importantly, they stay flat. If you get a stone fixer that is itself a stone, eventually you need to flatten the flattener. In Japan they often have three fixers and they use a specific regimine of flattening them on each other in a certain order. No thanks, I'll use a DMT!

SET Man · « **Reply #117 on:** 12 Mar 2014, 04:45 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock on 11 Mar 2014, 08:32 pm

Very nice work, Bladesmith! I really like the rustic look of the nakiri.

The cheap Tojiro is a good basic blade, but mine wasn't very flat when I got it. I had to bend it a bit to get it straight. If you get too much patina you can sometimes get if off with baking soda or Barkeeper's Friend and a green scrubbie. A belt sander is soooooo handy for repairs, sharpening and just lots of things.

My favorite stone fixer is a DMT XXC Dia-Sharp or an Atoma diamond plate. They cut fast and more importantly, they stay flat. If you get a stone fixer that is itself a stone, eventually you need to flatten the flattener. In Japan they often have three fixers and they use a specific regimine of flattening them on each other in a certain order. No thanks, I'll use a DMT!

Hey!

Hmmm... thanks Rob, I will have to check that out.

Quote from: bladesmith on 11 Mar 2014, 04:25 pm

Set Man,

I got this pic from your post (#104).

Excellent set of knives. You can do about anything with those three styles.

I wish you continued success in your journey.

Thank you, so far so good.

And yes, I do most of my work with the Misono. I love the look of people when they see me deveining shrimps or working on tiny baby artichokes with my 240mm Misono

Take care,
Buddy

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #118 on:** 12 Mar 2014, 11:13 am »

Quote from: SET Man on 11 Mar 2014, 04:10 pm

Hey!

BTW... can you recommend me a stone fixer? Korin is having a sale on Knives Accessories right now I might go check out a stone fixer there...

http://korin.com/Knives/Stone-Fixer_2

Anything you see that you think is good?

Take care,
Buddy

Check out Woodcraft (woodcraft.com) and Japan Woodworker (japanwoodworker.com) for flatteners as well. Sometimes they are on sale at those sites.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #119 on:** 19 Mar 2014, 04:49 pm »

Hey SET Man!

Stone flattener on clearance sale at Japan Woodworker:

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/Product/156223/Large-24-grit-Flattening-Stone-for-Water-Stones.aspx