SP 3.0?

Phil A · « **Reply #560 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 04:10 am »

James - this thread is going for quite awhile and there have been changes along the way. Back in August 2008 you indicated the SP 3.0 will reclock the signal. Can you confirm this is still the case? Can you give us further information on the DAC performance of the SP 3.0 vs. how something like the BP26DA or the outboard DAC works now? thanks

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Re: SP 3.0?
? Reply #198 on: 25 Aug 2008, 12:32 AM ?
Quote
Quote from: James Tanner on 24 Aug 2008, 07:31 PM
Quote from: nicolasb on 24 Aug 2008, 07:08 PM
James,

Any word yet on whether the SP3 will allow the reclocking of incoming audio signals to remove jitter (perhaps in the same way as a BP26DA does)?

Not sure on that one - will ask engineering.

james

Hi nicolasb,

Engineering tells me yes the new SP3 will resample the input.

james"
Logged

Mad Mr H · « **Reply #561 on:** 29 Dec 2009, 01:24 am »

Q1 2010 only days away.........

Are we there yet

Phil A · « **Reply #562 on:** 29 Dec 2009, 01:58 am »

Quote from: Mad Mr H on 29 Dec 2009, 01:24 am

Q1 2010 only days away.........

Are we there yet

There's a video on You Tube that says April

Phil A · « **Reply #563 on:** 29 Dec 2009, 02:02 am »

Here's the link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RS-_q2Zlh4

James, any word yet on my previous question about the DAC configuration and performance in the SP3?

James Tanner · « **Reply #564 on:** 29 Dec 2009, 02:53 am »

Quote from: Phil A on 29 Dec 2009, 02:02 am

Here's the link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RS-_q2Zlh4

James, any word yet on my previous question about the DAC configuration and performance in the SP3?

Hi Phil,

We are still playing with options on the digital side.

james

MOZ · « **Reply #565 on:** 3 Jan 2010, 01:49 pm »

Happy new year all,

James, any chance you'll be able to get HDMI 1.4 in the new SP3 before it goes out ?
Or think about a possible way to get it upgraded after (when hardware will be available) ?
MOZ

Phil A · « **Reply #566 on:** 3 Jan 2010, 02:30 pm »

I'm sure James will officially answer but at this point the chips and hardware are in such an early stage, I'm not sure anyone can really give an answer as to what can be adapted or modified down the road. It's likely a question that perhaps in a year there will be more data about. Here's some info about HDMI 1.4:

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdmi14.html

“Also, as new HDMI 1.4 devices come out, they will continue to be compatible with all your current HDMI 1.3 and older devices and cables. HDMI will continue to be backward compatible.

The HDMI 1.4 specification will offer the following enhanced functionalities:

HDMI Ethernet Channel: The HDMI 1.4 specification will add a data channel to the HDMI cable and will enable high-speed bi-directional communication. Connected devices that include this feature will be able to send and receive data via 100 Mb/sec Ethernet, making them instantly ready for any IP-based application.

The HDMI Ethernet Channel will allow an Internet-enabled HDMI device to share its Internet connection with other HDMI devices without the need for a separate Ethernet cable. The new feature will also provide the connection platform to allow HDMI-enabled devices to share content between devices.

Audio Return Channel: The new specification will add an Audio Return Channel that will reduce the number of cables required to deliver audio upstream for processing and playback. In cases where HDTVs are directly receiving audio and video content, this new Audio Return Channel allows the HDTV to send the audio stream to the A/V receiver over the HDMI cable, eliminating the need for an extra cable.

3D Over HDMI: The 1.4 version of the specification will define common 3D formats and resolutions for HDMI-enabled devices. The specification will standardize the input/output portion of the home 3D system and will specify up to dual-stream 1080p resolution.

4K x 2K Resolution Support: The new specification will enable HDMI devices to support high-definition (HD) resolutions four times beyond the resolution of 1080p. Support for 4K x 2K will allow the HDMI interface to transmit content at the same resolution as many digital theaters. Formats supported include and 3840x2160 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz and 4096x2160 24Hz

Expanded Support For Color Spaces: HDMI technology now supports color spaces designed specifically for digital still cameras. By supporting sYCC601, Adobe RGB and AdobeYCC601, HDMI-enabled display devices will be capable of reproducing more accurate life-like colors when connected to a digital still camera.

Micro HDMI Connector: The Micro HDMI Connector is a significantly smaller 19-pin connector that supports up to 1080p resolutions for portable devices. This new connector is approximately 50% smaller than the size of the existing HDMI Mini Connector.

Automotive Connection System: The Automotive Connection System is a cabling specification designed to be used as the basis for in-vehicle HD content distribution. The HDMI 1.4 specification will provide a solution designed to meet the rigors and environmental issues commonly found in automobiles, such as heat, vibration and noise. Using the Automotive Connection System, automobile manufactures will now have a viable solution for distributing HD content within the car.

“The HDMI specification continues to add functionality as the consumer electronics and PC industries build products that enhance the consumer’s HD experience,” said Steve Venuti, president of HDMI Licensing, LLC. “The 1.4 specification will support some of the most exciting and powerful near-term innovations such as Ethernet connectivity and 3D formats. Additionally we are going to broaden our solution by providing a smaller connector for portable devices and a connection system specified for automobiles, as we see both more and different devices adopting the HDMI technology.“

Consumers will also see new HDMI cables introduced to the market. In order to take advantage of the HDMI Ethernet Channel, consumers will need to purchase either a Standard HDMI cable with Ethernet, or a High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet. Consumers connecting an external device to an in-vehicle HDMI-enabled HD system will need the new Automotive HDMI cable. Consumers can expect to see new HDMI 1.4 cables introduced to the market when new HDMI 1.4 devices are available.”

Phil A · « **Reply #567 on:** 3 Jan 2010, 03:52 pm »

By the way, Silicon Image will have an exhibit at CES and part of it will deal with HDMI 1.4. So perhaps after that there will be more news about products which may be available down the road - http://www.siliconimage.com/ces2010.aspx

MOZ · « **Reply #568 on:** 4 Jan 2010, 05:17 pm »

Hi Phil A,

My point being only "if possible" think about it and don't get on the market with an already outdated product (or with no solution to prevent it)...
We've been told AVATAR Blu-ray release will come with 3D, i know there should be some delay, but it will be there soon or later.
And when everybody is going to "fire" it's HDMI 1.4 pre-pro, the marketing campaigns will kill everybody else (as HD kind of did, see tons of excellent pre on sale because they just don't "do HD") !
I've heard Denon was already on it's way to 1.4 and was planning a all new batch of products soon...
JVC projectors are on their way to 4K aso...
I really believe Bryston should think a way to sort out this 1.4 thing and then let it know to people in order to prevent it's sales...

My 2 cts

Phil A · « **Reply #569 on:** 4 Jan 2010, 06:03 pm »

Quote from: MOZ on 4 Jan 2010, 05:17 pm

Hi Phil A,

My point being only "if possible" think about it and don't get on the market with an already outdated product (or with no solution to prevent it)...
We've been told AVATAR Blu-ray release will come with 3D, i know there should be some delay, but it will be there soon or later.
And when everybody is going to "fire" it's HDMI 1.4 pre-pro, the marketing campaigns will kill everybody else (as HD kind of did, see tons of excellent pre on sale because they just don't "do HD") !
I've heard Denon was already on it's way to 1.4 and was planning a all new batch of products soon...
JVC projectors are on their way to 4K aso...
I really believe Bryston should think a way to sort out this 1.4 thing and then let it know to people in order to prevent it's sales...

My 2 cts

I don't disagree. Bryston is not a mass market company and just look at the timing with HDMI 1.3 not here yet. Just trying to be realistic. I don't think anyone can really answer at this point if it will realistically feasible to upgrade the components easily. Just again being realistic in what is the current state of the market. I asked last year if it were possible to get a BP26 with home theater bypass and James responded it would take a product re-design. My thought in asking the question was to have a situation where I could live with Bryston 2-channel and perhaps see who else might be able to get a product to market faster for movie viewing. I don't hate multi-channel music, but being more of a 2-channel person, I'd be willing to live with BP26 sound for 2-channel. I actually think even if 3D makes some inroads into the home, it is going to be a good 5 years before it is ready for more mass market acceptance. If it makes inroads, it will certainly be about 3 years before we start to see it in more moderately priced set-ups. I'd imagine we'll see it in flagship type products next year and then if it takes off a bit it will trickle down.

I saw Avatar in 3D last night. Obviously I have not compared it to 2D. I can live w/o 3D in the home and don't mind going out to the theater for something different. I don't go out to the theater much since often when you go you don't necessarily view it in a manner that is superior audio or video wise (at least not for me), sometimes you don't get your first choice (I went to try to see Avatar the night before and it was sold out for the 10:30 PM show) and have to put up with noise, can't pause the movie and sometimes get unwanted noise. Before Avatar, I went to see Up in 3D six months before that and before that I was probably not in a theater in a couple of years.

So I guess in summary of what I am trying to say, I am not sure that anyone can really answer what chips/boards will be out in the future and how they will interface with the digital boards of a current product. If I go with the SP3, I'd never consider the video processing option for that reason. Expensive, and it may be possible down the road to still use the SP3 for HDMI audio and have HDMI 1.4 going to the display. I'm in the market for a new bedroom TV (not that i am desperate as I have a 42 inch 1080p set now) and I'm not going to hold my breath and/or pay a premium for a secondary system I watch a couple of movies a year on. The average person (not an enthusiast) is certainly not going to jump on the bandwagon early either. At some point, I can always rotate the 1080p projector I have in the main system to the basement and replace the 720p one I have down there and consider what is newer for the main system. With the state of HDMI 1.3 already in pre/pros and receivers from other manufacturers vs. Bryston, I think it is more realistic until HDMI 1.4 is more established (if it gets there) for a non-mass market company to start R&D. If one comes from Bryston, CES of 2012 is probably what one can realistically expect.

MOZ · « **Reply #570 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 01:12 pm »

Well, after all, it shouldn't be "that bad" to have only 1.3 (even if Lexicon will probably shoot its new plateform on 1.4 !)...
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Trends/HDMI/3D/HDMI_1.3_Will_Support_3D_After_All/4002

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It’s not just the PS3 though, that update will also apply to any BD-Live capable Blu-ray player.

But don't tell it's not possible to have a solution, see what Krell can do with their "not on the sell" Blu-ray player :
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2010/01/krell_industries_introduces_first_bluray_player.php

Quote

Upgradeable to HDMI 1.4

The Evolution 555 is fully HDMI 1.3 compliant but with a direct fix on the future, the Evolution 555 includes an upgrade path to the future that makes it quite literally the most advanced and “future-ready” source component. Already equipped with an HDMI 1.4 transmitter, the Sigma VXP video processor is located on a plug-in card for in-field upgrade to HDMI 1.4 with full support for 3D, 4K x 2K Resolution Support, and HDMI Ethernet Channel.

MOZ · « **Reply #571 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 01:18 pm »

Quote

I asked last year if it were possible to get a BP26 with home theater bypass and James responded it would take a product re-design

Regarding this question, i love Bryston (had SP1.7, SP2, have BCD-1, 4BSST2 and 9BSST2...) but, i changed to a couple MC12 V5EQ + Mark Levinson N.380S (for 2ch) recently and there's no way a BP26 can sound as good as this wonderful 380S.
It has a passthrough for HT and you should give it a look/ear...

Daniel Datchev · « **Reply #572 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 03:38 pm »

Hi MOZ,
What is the retail price of Mark Levinson N.380S as new?
Daniel

Daniel Datchev · « **Reply #573 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 03:56 pm »

Hi Moz,
I found it ML380S was 6500$ as Bryston BP-25MC was 2995$.
Bear in mind that this was the price of BP-25 with MC and MM, not stand alone.
Twice as much and the measurements published by Stereophile show similar results.
I know Mark Levinson are state of engineering, but at high price.
If you want something for what Mark Levinson was famous, look for the new company of Mr.Levinson-Daniel Hertz.
Daniel

srb · « **Reply #574 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 04:03 pm »

Quote from: MOZ on 5 Jan 2010, 01:18 pm

there's no way a BP26 can sound as good as this wonderful 380S.

Way.

Steve

MOZ · « **Reply #575 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 04:18 pm »

Quote from: Daniel Datchev on 6 Jan 2010, 03:56 pm

Hi Moz,
I found it ML380S was 6500$ as Bryston BP-25MC was 2995$.
Bear in mind that this was the price of BP-25 with MC and MM, not stand alone.
Twice as much and the measurements published by Stereophile show similar results.
I know Mark Levinson are state of engineering, but at high price.
If you want something for what Mark Levinson was famous, look for the new company of Mr.Levinson-Daniel Hertz.
Daniel

My point was more to Phil A "don't stay blocked on the BP26", because he needs a pre with "passthrough" fonction for HT.
This 380S provides one and works great.

As for the ML, i don't buy new, i don't have those kinds of $$$$

so, a used one (they're not made anymore anyway) can be found at a very good price if you seek a bit... even above the price of a brand new BP26

And i don't refer to measurements but more to what i ear...
Once again, i love Bryston products, stereo bypass on my SP2 was great (made me love again music ! Million thanks James !!!), but once you've heard the transparency of the ML, you can't come back...

PS : I will certainly have a 326S or a Ref 32 some day, but this 380S is a very very good priced product on second hand market !

Mad Mr H · « **Reply #576 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 01:17 am »

Sold my Mark Levinson transport and DAC, 37&360 I think it was.....wanted 30/31 but to old now........ the kit not me !!

Now have BCD/BDA on route......

PS - My projector system does 4K

Back on topic - any news on date for SP3 ??? or Price ???

MOZ · « **Reply #577 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 08:44 am »

Quote from: Mad Mr H on 7 Jan 2010, 01:17 am

Sold my Mark Levinson transport and DAC, 37&360 I think it was.....wanted 30/31 but to old now........ the kit not me !!

Now have BCD/BDA on route......

... plan to sell my BCD-1 and get a ML N.390S as CD player

Well, everyboby has to try new things !

Sorry for this "last" off topic.

So, James, when is your SP3 coming out ?
April ?

Daniel Datchev · « **Reply #578 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 09:21 am »

Hi MOZ,
I think that you have to find a forum for Mark Levinson owners.
Daniel

Phil A · « **Reply #579 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 12:55 pm »

Quote from: MOZ on 7 Jan 2010, 08:44 am

... plan to sell my BCD-1 and get a ML N.390S as CD player
Well, everyboby has to try new things !

Sorry for this "last" off topic.

So, James, when is your SP3 coming out ?
April ?

One has to keep in mind that Levinson is part of Harman Int'l. There are positives and negatives. Obviously Harman owns lots of brands they can leverage technology from (e.g. Lexicon). They also have a troubled financial history and the company was almost sold to investment bankers before the deal went through. Car audio is now a large portion of their business. When Levinson was part of Madrigal with the president of Lexicon running it for 8 mos., they abruptly shut down Madrigals operations (discontinuing the Proceed brand) and literally lost at least for an extended period (like 5-6 mos.) very expensive customer equipment in for repair. My poor local dealer had so many of his floor pieces of other brands lent out to customers to cover their lack of decent customer support. At this point in time, they don't even repair some Levinson and Proceed equipment which were under Madrigal that is not even that old (there are stories on Audio Asylum). Some have expensive doorstops. Even the Adcom 555 I have in the bedroom system can be easily repaired and that is much older than the stuff I'm talking about. Yes, the new stuff so far has been better supported, but it is still not Bryston customer service. You get better customer service from even brands like Oppo,

Everyone would like Bryston to come out with stuff faster. It is just the reality of the size of the company and the market. They are not alone. There are other cos. who make quality gear who are in a similar situation. That is one of the reasons the Proceed line was killed. They lost their shirts on the PMDT. They really didn't have video expertise and rushed to market in a hatchet job. It was a great transport and player when it worked (yes I owned one). So there is no need to pick on a company for conditions of its size and the market. No company is perfect. You have to pick your poison if you will and live with the positives and negatives. I got rid of Bryston once (I had ST series amps) due to their slow pace in getting into home theater. They are still slow and will be slow. I'm fine with that after seeing what else is out their.