Panasonic SA XRS Digital amplifier/HT Receiver

Zero · « **Reply #160 on:** 5 Nov 2003, 11:40 pm »

I just took the plunge this evening. Unless things go better at work, this will probably be my last purchase for a few months.

I will be comparing this unit directly to the Sony AVD S50 ES. Now its just a waiting game, and waiting to receive a reply from stereovox so I can order the digital cable.

peakrchau · « **Reply #161 on:** 6 Nov 2003, 04:28 am »

Quote from: _scotty_

Here is a useful link to a side by side listening evaluation of the XR25 and
XR45 by ssangste on the avsforum .... Scroll down to the comments by ssangste,The Home Theatre Doc. His review is a little below the mid position on the scroll bar. ..

Here is a direct link to the post by ssangste not needing scrolling. Despite going through the analog DVD inputs of the XR45, Andrew Marshall of Audio Ideas is using a Behringer unit as both a DAC and a digital EQ unit. The output is then fed into the four inputs of the 6 SACD inputs to deliver the dirvers directly. Although the path is less clean that the digital in path on the XR45, the sound level is very good.

I downloaded and read the XR25/X45 owner's manual and it confirmed that digital sources are not available via the analog TAPE REC OUT or the Second Audio Output (Similar to Tape Loop output is vaiable via VOLUME).

The exceprts below confirm that an A/D conversion must be done (page 21) on analog sources before the power amp section can play it back. It also confirmed that the digital to AMP OUT path is more direct than the analog converters with no intermediate analog being done (page 8 and page 20). People who wish to record from their digital connected CD players to their tape unit are out of luck.....strange but true.

---------------------excepts from manual-------------------------

Page 8:

Page 21:

Page 20:

ABEX · « **Reply #162 on:** 6 Nov 2003, 04:48 am »

Tape--Some people are starting to saym "they actually use Tape Decks these days!"

As long as I can still play my old tapes, if ever I do,I won't complain.

A reason why I want his unit to work in my system is in order to downsize components.It shall be nice to eliminate about 3 different things in my system. I am getting sick of big boxed seperates.

Later!

ABEX · « **Reply #163 on:** 6 Nov 2003, 10:39 am »

One last thing I would look at is the Newfoorm Research line . Study them seeing that they endorse the Panasonic Digital Receiver.

http://www.newformresearch.com/

speechstreet · « **Reply #164 on:** 8 Nov 2003, 01:27 am »

I just got my SA-XR25 last night. How long does it take to break in?
I think it sounds decent but the soundstage/imaging is lacking - ok, I'm compariing it perhaps unfairly to my tube amplifiers. And I'm running it with highly efficient full-range single-driver loudspeakers. Here's my setup:

Sony DVP-NS999ES SACD player,
Decware ZTPRE preamp,
Decware SE84CSM amps w/tj274B + Brimar 6922,
Loth-X Ambience 97db full-range TL's w/Cat6 cable,
Two Yamaha YST-SW305 Subs

I must say it sounds at least as good, if not better than the Outlaw Audio 1050 reciever it replaced, and at half the cost! Well done Panasonic.

ABEX · « **Reply #165 on:** 8 Nov 2003, 02:17 am »

Speechtreat
I just received mine this afternoon and I am trying to get the settings right. I think people need a instructional tape instead of the booklets they supply with these things. It's a little bit of a learning curve getting adated to using all the settings.

The sound is sterile thus far for CD playback,but there are things I need to do along with breakin. I would imagine it will take up to 200hrs. of continuous play with whatever medium besides the Tuner you wish to use.

I am glad I am using OTA after seeing the dinky connectors foe speaker wires.

The sound is not near my other setup,but hey I can live with it till I get situated and the PC adaptor is coming. That should help also.

There is no heat issues with this unit like the one I felt at CC. The sound for TV playback is great. I needed something just for that purpose. The Samsung I have I cannot distinguish what is being said.

Someone should chime in with more info.

Later

_scotty_ · « **Reply #166 on:** 8 Nov 2003, 03:36 am »

Speechtreat,I played mine 24/7 and never turned it off,in fact it is still on. I don't think it really came to life until at least a week had passed. In my system both the transport and the XR25 needed a powercord to flesh out the lower mids. It may never exhibit the same dynamic bloom as the tube setup, it is a very different technology. The sound it has may not suit everyone ears or associated equipement. That being said, give it a good
2 weeks to breakin then assess its' compatability with your gear and ears.

singhal · « **Reply #167 on:** 8 Nov 2003, 11:13 pm »

If someone could explain what the break in does that would great. I do not understand to be honest. I can understand replacing power cord.

It is all digital unit though from what I understand, a computer does not improve performance over time. In fact the moment it starts up I would think it's the best performance due to temperature. Computers have power supplies, etc and that still doesn't positively change performance over time (unless you count fans getting dirty over time)

How is this thing built? I am not saying that burn in can' t be real, (many people feel there is a break in period w/ these units), I just don't understand how this is possible, or where along the signal line on this unit the break in effects.

Thanks

ABEX · « **Reply #168 on:** 8 Nov 2003, 11:33 pm »

Here are 2 Threads which discuss Burn In which might help!

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=general&n=96178&highlight=Burn+In&r=&session=

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.pl

singhal · « **Reply #169 on:** 8 Nov 2003, 11:52 pm »

Thank you for prompt help

There is little evidence from the thread though that there is a physical process, esp in all digital components

Speakers are of course a different issue b/c of the mechanical nature of them.

Dmason · « **Reply #170 on:** 9 Nov 2003, 12:33 am »

Burn in is a truth and a fact. Perhaps acknowledge abit of the ' mystical' nature of the synergy in audio, and in all things natural and artificial. There are things of this world that are real, yet un-quantifiable, nonetheless.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #171 on:** 9 Nov 2003, 03:50 am »

singhal, here is as simplified an explanation as I can come up with.

When electricity flows through an insulated conductor the voltage present displaces electrons in the insulator. Depending on the insulator there is more or less resistance to this displacement. As the "breakin" process progresses more of the electrons are displaced until no more can be moved by the applied voltage. This change is not permanent but the time required for relaxation of the electrons back to their original position will vary depending on the materials involved. The condition is analoguous to
combing your hair and building up a static charge on your comb. The charge remains after you stop combing your hair. The combs electrical
state was changed by a direct physical action on your part.The comb is an insulator and you displaced electrons in it by combing your hair. Applying voltage to an insulator will do the same thing. Once the electrons in the insulator have been moved the amount of phase shift applied to
an alternating electro-magnetic field propagating down the length conductor is lowered. The insulators initial resistance to electron displacement results in an increased phase shift of the alternating EM field that varies with frequency. The higher the frequency the more the insulator is involved in the propagation of the waveform and the more we hear the "breakin" process improve the sound. A seperate issue is electrolytic power supply caps and coupling caps. The Panasonic has both.
When an electrolytic capacitor is new the electrochemical reactions that make it a good capacitor haven't taken place yet. Voltage has to be applied to the caps in order for this process to take place. In the case of coupling caps,an alternating voltage or signal has to be applied by connecting a source component to the input of a device containing them.
During "breakin" we hear these physical changes taking place in the components that conduct electricity or store an electrical charge.
I hope this was helpful.

singhal · « **Reply #172 on:** 9 Nov 2003, 04:19 am »

That's fascinating! Thanks. If that is boiled down, I can only imagine how complex it really is.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #173 on:** 9 Nov 2003, 06:50 am »

singhal, please bear in mind that this explanation has inherent inaccuracy's
due to potential over simplification. So much of what we hear is the result of a myriad of inter-relationships between passive and active components that when you limit the scope of a discussion for the sake of clarity one aways leaves other factors out that also impact what is heard.

ABEX · « **Reply #174 on:** 9 Nov 2003, 02:19 pm »

Panasonic OSD?

Having a hard time finding how to get the OSD to work. I am using a Samsung TXN2771HF 27" Premier Series DynaFlat HDTV Monitor with it.

I have tried several things or hookup combo's,but without success.

Any ideas would be appreciated,TIA

The CDP play has improved BTW!

ABEX · « **Reply #175 on:** 11 Nov 2003, 04:25 pm »

Someone told me that using the Optical Outputs is a must with this unit. Is this true? Have not tried it yet.

Just a tip for those experienceing Brightness. I adjusted the Treble\Bass and I think it gives alot more transparency and lack of brightness than if you were to listen to the unit in the normal positioning. Worked for me.

someidiot · « **Reply #176 on:** 11 Nov 2003, 05:58 pm »

Quote from: ABEX

Someone told me that using the Optical Outputs is a must with this unit. Is this true? Have not tried it yet.

Abex,

I don't know about the optical outputs as you describe them, but this thread has noted several times that the digital inputs (optical or coax) sound better than the analogue inputs when playing a digital source. This is because a direct digital signal bypasses both the D/A conversion (at the source) and the A/D conversion (in the reciever), which it would otherwise incur.

Take a look at the summary at the bottom of page 15: that'll point you to other posts noting this.

ABEX · « **Reply #177 on:** 11 Nov 2003, 06:35 pm »

SI
Yes,I will try the Optical Inputs which is what I meant.I am using a COAX Cable at the moment. I am waiting on a PC adaptor also. The only Analog input I have tried is for my Tape Deck which I only checked to see weather the unit was working right.

Still have some time for breakin to complete and I am just testing 2ch. playback for now. I am sure that the unit is really good for HT and I have my speakers being made at this time.

ABEX

_scotty_ · « **Reply #178 on:** 11 Nov 2003, 11:15 pm »

The digital input also bypasses the crap input coupling caps on the analogue inputs where most of the problems we hear may be originating.
The tone controls maybe a very usefull feature especially if there is a net positive result when you use them. If it sounds good it is good.

ABEX · « **Reply #179 on:** 11 Nov 2003, 11:29 pm »

I was wondering if maybe there could be a synergy issue using a Phillips CDP as a transport ,because I am essentially using the DAC of the receiver correct.

All other sources are fine with the exception of the CDP.

I have not received the adaptor in order to try a different PC so that should make a difference.

Phillips Players I think have problems with some equiptment they are inserted with. I was researching for a Multi Format Player to use a few days ago. I noticed that Panasonic Players do not play SACD stuff.

Later!