[BrunoB]

Just some info about the difference between the two units.

It should sound fine with a phono stage plugged into one of the analogue inputs. I don't know if it is MP3 compatible and the owners manual is not forthcoming on this matter. There is a .4lbs weight difference between the
two receivers the XR45 weighs 9.2 lbs and the XR25 is 8.8lbs. It is possible that some of that weight is in the power supply If the XR45 was
available I would get it for this reason alone.

Panasonic has not ignored sound quality in the XR45. I know many listening tests were done during its development. In fact, the XR45 is an upgraded version of the XR25 (probably $100 less) which has similar specs. The XR45 benefits from higher quality components and capacitors etc. Great sound is no accident but it is not the driving force behind the development of the product. Efficiency, packaging and cost were larger drivers.

[someidiot]

That's interesting; thanks BrunoB.

I googled John Meyer Newform Research and found an XR25 review by some inventive dude over at http://reviews.iwon.com/. He's using it to bi-amp his speakers, using the "Party Mode" surround settings (which sets all outputs to be L & R). You could actually tri-amp using this technique (gulp ...)

That's a pretty neat trick for this wee thing to pull off, no? Check it out

Edit: oops -- here's the full URL http://reviews.iwon.com/pscAudioReview/Panasonic,SA-XR25/PRD_172732_1593crx.aspx

[smargo]

For what it's worth

http://www.harmankardon.com/product_detail.asp?cat=REC&prod=DPR%201001&stype=S

[Dmason]

Looks like a great opportunity to "PARTY" for all of you with bi wireable speakers, I would have to say the Value Factor just doubled. Did in my books anyway. Would love some feedback on this approach which would seem to double the amplifiers useable output. Very exciting stuff.

[Monolith]

He's using it to bi-amp his speakers, using the "Party Mode" surround settings (which sets all outputs to be L & R).

Edit: oops -- here's the full URL http://reviews.iwon.com/pscAudioReview/Panasonic,SA-XR25/PRD_172732_1593crx.aspx

Is the XR25 capable of filtering hi/lo/mid frequencies between the front and rear speakers?  Do you still have fade control from front to rear in "party" mode?

[someidiot]

He's using it to bi-amp his speakers, using the "Party Mode" surround settings (which sets all outputs to be L & R).

Edit: oops -- here's the full URL http://reviews.iwon.com/pscAudioReview/Panasonic,SA-XR25/PRD_172732_1593crx.aspx

Is the XR25 capable of filtering hi/lo/mid frequencies between the front and rear speakers?  Do you still have fade control from front to rear in "party" mode?

The XR series don't have hi/mid/lo filtering. Instead they use the more simplistic large/small speaker approach, and support one of three cut-off frequencies (100, 150, 200Hz).

I called panny Tech Support and asked them whether or not the "speaker size" and "speaker level" are active when using "party mode". They didn't have a unit there to try out but, after some deliberation, asserted a 95% certainty that both would be active in that mode. Not an ideal answer, but promising I suppose.

So the answer to your questions are thus: (a) kinda, sorta, no not really (b) likely

I would try it out myself but had to send this one back for an exchange; although I'm loath to part with it for even a few days   (smargo: afraid I won't be posting an update for a while).

They also mentioned that the fan is volume-based; not temperature triggered. Other than my feeling the case ought to be vented more effectively, this is only negative thing I can say about the overall design (can't imagine an engineer made that decision). Hardly a major complaint though.

Lastly, I emailed the "inventive dude" referenced above and asked if he'd mind posting his thoughts on this aspect.

Edit: If this bi-amp thing is not accidental, I can just imagine some savvy engineer selling the notion to Marketing by dressing it up as "party mode, dude"  

[smargo]

Apples and oranges, really. I sold the Sony two weeks ago, so I guess I prefer the Panasonic, by a rather wide margin really, enough so, to buy new speakers to go, the Dynaudios. These are basically a Contour 1.3 for the studio. They are exceptional with the Panasonic, and reach down to about F3=42Hz. The Panasonic has a vice-like grip on the woofer.

The Carver deal is my bigger, badder, in the living room drawer, unit, which plays alot of orchestral and live rock, but more importantly, does get it right ...

Dmason:

Does the panny do rythym and pace well - these are important to me - more so than imaging and soundsatge. - tonal qualities are important as well.

smargo

[Dmason]

PRAT. These qualities are perhaps why the Dynaudios are so appropriate, with their punchy sound and their front row presentation. They are also ruthlessly revealing, and as such are maybe the biggest tip of the hat that I can offer on the Panasonic.

Pianos sound as such, the difficult harmonic content of oboes and organs, etc. all come through with flying colours. The Esotec tweeter is an extremely viable recipient of the digital amplification's increased resolution, with no apparent sibilance and not at all fatiguing, and I have been listening for over two hours.

Listening to rhythmic music, has lots of jam, the stop and start of notes is very appealing to me, listening to the Long Beach Dub Allstars is about as jammed out as it gets, and the Panny handles it all extremely well. All I could recommend, beyond Everything else I have offered, would be speakers which accept passive biamplification....

[someidiot]

So here's a wacky question for those of you who've taken your XR apart (scotty, dmason?): how hard would it be to replace the power supply for car/boat usage? The internals run off 12v and 5v rails right? And digital amps love smooth battery/big-cap power?

It seems to me this unit is ideal for a vehicle:

- want to play M/C DVDs in your car? This is your baby.
- wanna' drive multiple sets of two channels (front/rear)? Use the bi-amp abilities.
- have a problem with heat build-up from your current 4/6/8 channel analogue amps? Digital is the way to go for cool running, high efficiency output.
- Already have a little car computer (or laptop) with lossless copies of your cd's on it? Hook up the digital output.
- have an MP3 player (shudder) with digital outputs? Plug it right in. Otherwise, use the tape inputs.
- tired of electrical noise trashing the low-level audio signal traversing from the front of your car to the trunk mounted amps? Run the lightpipe instead (the optical connectors).
- want pristine audio that will likely trounce anything else for less than a second mortgage? Get your XR series and mod it. Spend the money on a set of Dynaudio car speakers instead! (an Esotec derivitive is available for cars).

There's very few digital amps out there for the mobile world, and only 2 channel. The Blaupunkt one seems to get ignored over its lack of quality (no digital inputs: nudge, nudge). In fact, crutchfield can't even give them away.

One wouldn't entertain such a fanciful notion over a typical consumer amp. This is different; and apparently the only thing running hot in this amp is the original power supply. You could also run the I/R sensor up to the dashboard so the remote would be usable. Also note that the XR series maintains its configuration settings for several weeks without power ...

Ideas? Scotty? Anyone else?

[singhal]

The post seemed to suggest in party modes the rear and front in party mode are driven equally, however does it do this on the sides as well? What happens to the center.  I am curious if you could use party mode for 5.1

[_scotty_]

The power supply storage caps are 1000mfd at 50volts. For a nominal
100watts per channel the rail voltage has to be somewhere near 50volts.
The cap values are evidence that this is the case.  If a powerful inverter was used with a harmonic distortion canceling power conditioner the XR45/25 could be adapted to mobile use to good effect.

[someidiot]

Thanks Scotty; I'll look into it some more.

Edit:

The post seemed to suggest in party modes the rear and front in party mode are driven equally, however does it do this on the sides as well? What happens to the center.  I am curious if you could use party mode for 5.1

That mode drives all six channels using the input L & R only, and apparently does so in a linear LRLRLR format across each of the six channels: left, centre, right, right surround, rear, left surround; or something like that. You might check the manual for more specifics (there's a link on page 3 of this thread).

[JLM]

The August Newform Research newsletter uses the Panny 45 in stereo bi-amping mode by using a Behringer DEQ2496 Ultra Curve (available from musicansfriend.com for $299.99) as an active crossover/equalizer between the source and the Panny.

The downside appears to be that the Behringer requires analog input/output.

[Mhenckel]

I would like to use the Panasonic XR45 for a active three way system - the cross over function to implmented by the Beheringer DXC 2494 unit.

in order to realise this i need to know if the 6 channel input on the XR45 has full bandwith - specifically if the subwofer input is bandwith limited in any way.

I plan to do cross over at 300 Hz and 3KHz

Thanks in advance

Morten

[clyde]

There is no direct input for the back amplifier channel, so only 5 discrete channels of amplification are possible.  The 5.1 subwoofer input is passed through to the subwoofer line output.    

I have used 4 channels to good effect in a two way active speaker configuration.  See the discussion earlier in this thread.

[ABEX]

What I want to know is if this unit has AC-3 Dolby Digital which is hard to get in the price range of units like this.

I did go to Circuit City and they had the Model25unit,but they did not have the 45. I was impressed at the compact size of the unit. I am getting tired of the bulky units that I have although some of the older CDP's are better as transports than any of the DVD or CDP's I have seen and heard. There are exceptions in CDP's though. They cost alot.

What is Dolby AC-3 called now, Is it DDII?  

The unit has my intrest,but I want to make certain it has what I am looking for before commiting $$ for one.

Any info is welcomed!

[_scotty_]

Dolby 5.1 is also known by the encoding system used to transmit it, "DolbyAC3".  The XR25/45 will do this format.  What does your system currently consist of.  Also don't forget that you can return the XR25 within 30days to Circuit City if it doesn't work out.

[ABEX]

C\NETS Review of the unit is rather intresting. Wondering about the last thing which is said in it. Is it the power rating they are looking at?

I also wonder what speaker systems have been used with it? Are those who are using it using high efficiency speakers like Klipsch? I so not consider power a real issue when having 6 speakers in a setup. Have  dynamic   resources been tested and what have been the results with owners?

What are the Chips that are incorperated into the unit also?

Just thinking!
===================
C\NETS comments?

Most receivers look awfully ordinary next to this sleek Panasonic.

The good: Low-slung design; six-channel, 100-watt all-digital amplifier; component-video switching; 5.1-channel SACD/DVD-Audio inputs; second-zone line outputs; remote subwoofer-level control.

The bad: Feels a little underpowered.

By Steve Guttenberg, September 24, 2003

Panasonic's strikingly styled SA-XR45 receiver (listed at $399) stands a mere 3 inches tall and weighs just 9.2 pounds, but it still manages to cram six 100-watt amplifiers and a full complement of features into its low-slung case. The designers achieved this radical size reduction by making the amps all-digital. The XR45 is a great choice for space-starved, style-conscious shoppers, but don't expect it to rock with the same authority as similarly priced full-size models.

[Dmason]

Mr Guttenberg apparently is unfamiliar with the concept of speaker efficiency. I have used my Panasonic with both high and low efficiency, 92--85db, and it can rock. It exhibits wonderful control over the inefficient Dynaudio speakers. It is not the ultimate pairing for those current hungry drivers, but is a great test, and they sound great. --I once heard what a monstrous lot of sound a tiny 2 watt tube amp could make when hooked up to ancient Altec Voice of the Theater bins and horn. and it rocked. Pay more attention to efficiency of a given speaker.

I regard the Panasonic as somewhat a Swiss Army knife of amplifiers, and it just keeps getting better, still opening up abit. I think it is Clyde's review where I noticed that his ICEpower amp has been busted to subwoofer duty. Actions speak louder than words.  Superb implementation, sonics, and Value, Value, Value.

[_scotty_]

My living room is 25x25x8 and I had a pair of 90db/1watt/meter DIY 3ways hooked up to it in this room during testing.  I was more concerned about running out of loudspeaker then running out of power. The XR25
made the 8in. Audax Carbon fiber woofer sound like a 10 in. I was very suprised by this performance. The XR25/45 uses the TI chipset and I can find out very little about it. Our descriptions of the receivers performance is no substitute for actually trying it out for yourself.  What it does not do
is state of the art macro-dynamics.  And for $300.00 it is unrealistic to expect it to. That being said, it is a musically valid choice and a solid performer. Its control in the low frequencies is astonishing. I have also never heard it sound harsh in my setup. The size of space it can create
seems limited only by the associated equipement and source material.
What are you considering replacing with it?