Panasonic SA XRS Digital amplifier/HT Receiver

_scotty_ · « **on:** 29 Sep 2003, 11:31 pm »

I Thought I would start a thread specifically dealing with this product as I am currently Testing this thing.So far with barely 24hrs of continuous
on time and 5hrs of music played through it it is shaping up better than expected.Microdynamics have improved dramatically as have large scale dynamic swing capability.The bass is improving faster than the highs,but
this isn't to suprising as the power supply caps didn't have as far to go
at these frequencies.Cymbals are fleshing out nicely regarding their lower harmonic content.Hall ambience cues are improving nicely as well.
I can't wait to see what tomorrow brings. This is just like Chirstmas.
Scotty

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Sep 2003, 02:17 am »

Scotty, are you talking about the PANASONIC SA-XR45? I plan on buying one, but this week I got a wild hair and bought a new Denon DVD-2200, which sorta depleted my gear fund. The Panny may be on the menu for the middle of Oct.

Dmason recommends the '45 as being a worthwhile step up over the '25, with better parts & power supply. I haven't popped the top off, but I see that it weighs about 10% more than it's smaller sibling (still a lightweight 10 lbs...).

So, do all digital amps require a lot of burning in? A concencus seems to be forming that they all (Carver, Sony, Panny) all sound pretty rough out of the box, but smooth out over time.

Another thread I'll be watching closely. If you like yours, I'll probably pull the trigger next month, too.

John Casler · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Sep 2003, 02:21 am »

Quote

I got a wild hair and bought a new Denon DVD-2200, which sorta depleted my gear fund.

Congratulations, let us know how it looks and sounds.

Did you buy B&M or online and was the pricing reasonable?

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Sep 2003, 02:46 am »

I bought it at the local dealer, for 2 reasons: 1) my Pioneer was getting flaky, so I couldn't wait for delivery (must...have...my...MC music!

), and 2) Denon has no sense of humor when it comes to honoring warranty if purchased from an unauthorized dealer. But, I've bought a lot of stuff there, so they threw my a bone (almost 10% off), so it was under $600 w/tax included.

I would have loved a '2900, but I settled on the '2200. I'm sure the more expensive unit is worth the extra $, but since I bought mine because my Pioneer DV-45A started to flake on me, waiting another month wasn't an option. Also, I think that DVI output is almost mandatory on a $1k player (c'mon, Samsung has it on their $300 player! Not saying it's as well built, but really...). I strongly suspect that shortly we'll have DVI & Firewire even on the sub $1000 players, so I'll use the '2200 til the next couple models come out.

So far I've not put an awful lot of hours on it, but my initial impression: it rocks. Better than my DV-45A that it replaced. The digital bass management makes a huge difference. I wish I could compare this unit to the '2900, but I can't so I won't worry about it. The step-up model probably has a better P/S, but I see it uses the exact same DSD chip (don't know about PCM, though), so I'm guess the diff will be subtle, sonically.

I'll of course post more when I get more hours on it (and perhaps burnin will improve the sound further). One really nice bonus is that it plays JPEG discs and MP3s. So far it plays all the MP3 discs I've tried; my Pioneer Elite had older firmware and wouldn't correctly play discs burned with Nero, although it loved discs burned on MusicMatch Jukebox. Also the remote, though goofy looking, works well, with an intuitive layout. A nice bonus it that it has a wide operating angle (my Pioneer remote required a direct line of site and needed to be aimed like a gun). And it's plenty powerful enough to bounce off the Da-Lite screen to the back of my room where the gear is.

So far I'm lovin' it...

Rob

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Sep 2003, 02:49 am »

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread!

By way of apology, I'll try hooking it up to the Panny once I get one!

_scotty_ · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Sep 2003, 04:13 pm »

quote="Rob Babcock"]Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread!

By way of apology, I'll try hooking it up to the Panny once I get one!

[/quote]
Thats cool,Neither Best Buy or Circuit City had the XR 45 in their computer
system a Google search showed that the two machines were identical,except for DVR in and out being present on the XR45.I would have purchased the XR45 if it had been available.The XR25 S has same specs.

Jack Gilvey · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Sep 2003, 10:49 pm »

I ordered one (a 45, $299 from J&R) also since I'm moving the movie stuff into the living room and the form factor of this is much nicer than my big,black,old Onkyo. I'm looking forward to trying the amps on some MC SACD as well as using two channels after my NAD pre for vinyl use.
Can we expect much better DD/DTS sound keeping the path digital straight to the output? What's with the DTS 24/96...not familar with that.

Scotty...are you using just the amps as in the Newform article or have you tried all the functions?

Thanks for the thread!

_scotty_ · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Oct 2003, 01:54 am »

Scotty...are you using just the amps as in the Newform article or have you tried all the functions?

Thanks for the thread![/quote]

You're Welcome, It seemed like the logical thing to do.I am a 2ch man,
and don't own enough speakers to do multi/ch.I am using it as a power amp in my system right now during the break in period.I am 2 days in and it sounds suprisingly good considering the thing is very green.I have heard worse sounding gear that was broken in. Its major short coming
so far is a diminished ability to handle very large scale dynamic shifts:
explosions,lightning and thunderclaps. My reference system reproduces
these high speed, high level transients better, it is more real sounding.I
did find something that I could hear it not deal with very well,Craig Chaquico ACOUSTIC PLANET on the Higher Octave label- HOMCD 77562.
Yes I know I'm picky and and I am also being unfair to the XR25S, it's
only been turned on two days.It sounds so good already that I find myself hoping it will be a contender.

randytsuch · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Oct 2003, 02:01 am »

Scotty,
I heard the Pany sounds very good if you upgrade the PC. I am sure it would void the warranty, but it might be worth it.

BTW, after it breaks in, are you thinking about opening it up, and trying to improve it? I would thing some PS mods would help the dynamics problem.

Randy

_scotty_ · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Oct 2003, 02:17 am »

Quote from: randytsuch

Scotty,
I heard the Pany sounds very good if you upgrade the PC. I am sure it would void the warranty, but it might be worth it.

BTW, after it breaks in, are you thinking about opening it up, and trying to improve it? I would thing some PS mods would help the dynamics problem.

Randy

Hi Randy. Check out Music Direct at http://www.amusicdirect.com/.
They have 2 adapters for this sort of powercord so no cutting of the machine is required to upgrade the powercord.I have to double check the available space to see if my 1000mfd 50volt BlackGates with fit between the output filter coils. They are 22mm in diameter.It may be a tight fit.
It is transparent enough that the powercord has to be hurting it a lot.
I will try to get something put together soon to test this theory.

Jack Gilvey · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Oct 2003, 11:43 am »

How goes it, Scotty?

What is the "resolution" of this receiver? By that I mean, if you pass 24/96 data to it from a DAD via optical, does it preserve that all the way to the output?

_scotty_ · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Oct 2003, 01:09 am »

Quote from: Jack Gilvey

How goes it, Scotty?

What is the "resolution" of this receiver? By that I mean, if you pass 24/96 data to it from a DAD via optical, does it preserve that all the way to the output?

My transport is not 24/96 it is 16/44 redbook only. The owners manual
is also unclear regarding the input bandwidth of the toslink input. The phrase clear as mud comes to mind. It goes well, but to render any sort of final judgement at this time would be grossly premature. It does sound good enough to keep right now. I consider it massive over kill for a second system at this time. It deserves better than the associated equipement
most people would put it with in secondary systems.

kendrid · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Oct 2003, 02:11 am »

I demoed the XR45 last night in my home against my 3000ES and 1501RC. For an inexpensive unit it sounds pretty good, but it is not on the level of the Sony 3000ES or my Jolida 1501RC. I'd guess that the Sony ES all-in-one units are a bit better, as they use the 'old' technology of the 3000ES. The 3000ES *really* impresses me, the XR45 did not.

The bass and midrange on the unit sound pretty good, but the treble was a bit on the 'harsh' side. It was not as smooth as the Sony's digital amps and it was annoying me after 1/2 hour of listening.

The soundstage was not 'smeared' and instruments were separated fairly well. Impressive for an inexpensive unit.

This isn't a giant killer by any means (IMHO), but for a resonably priced unit it does sound pretty good.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Oct 2003, 12:10 am »

Quote from: kendrid

I demoed the XR45 last night in my home against my 3000ES and 1501RC. For an inexpensive unit it sounds pretty good, but it is not on the level of the Sony 3000ES or my Jolida 1501RC. I'd guess that the Sony ES all-in-one units are a bit better, as they use the 'old' technology of the 3000ES. The 3000ES *really* impresses me, the XR45 did not.

The bass and midrange on the unit sound pretty good, but the treble was a bit on the 'harsh' side. It was not as smooth as the Sony's digital amps and it was a ...

kendrid,how much burnin time was on the XR45 and what did the
associated components consist of. I can't find your system in the listed systems on this site. Maybe the Panasonic was a poor match for the rest of your equipement.

kendrid · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Oct 2003, 04:19 am »

I have ACI Sapphires and Audioquest Type 4 cables.

The unit was open box, and I had just a couple of hours on it.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Oct 2003, 06:02 pm »

Quote from: Jack Gilvey

How goes it, Scotty?

Inquiring minds wanted to know, How goes the burn-in, does the XR25S
have what it takes to run with the big dogs. In one word YES. The caveat
is that you have to use the digital inputs.The analogue inputs are merely very good. The cutting edge of reality is reproduced when the XR25S is fed a digital signal.With 8 days of continuous burn-in the difference in sonic quality between the analogue and digital emerged.The music played through the digital inputs sounds much more real and most importantly the ability of the amp to reproduce large dynamic shifts can only be had with a digital feed. The analogue inputs just won't do it. They are too slow keep up with reality. From the crack of thunder to the cannons of the 1812 Overture, it is all there when the digital inputs are employed.
For a modest investment in a great sounding system you need a
good to great transport,a toslink or coaxial cable, an aftermarket power cord,good to excellent speaker wire, and last, the best speakers you can afford. Someone in the future will probably do a survey of DVD players
that are affordable and that will serve as a transport to feed this thing.

Finally,the most important part is rid yourself of disbelief and get off the river of DeNile. At $300.00 this is a steal of a deal.
The future is now.

Jack Gilvey · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Oct 2003, 08:21 pm »

Quote

The cutting edge of reality is reproduced when the XR25S is fed a digital signal.

Wow, that about says it. Thanks for the review!

Brad · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Oct 2003, 08:58 pm »

Scotty,

How do you think the '25 will do with a phono stage plugged into it?
How 'bout a networked audio device playing AAC/MP3/WAV direct digitally into it?

t.i.a.

Also, is it worth the extra $70 or so to get the '45?

Brad in Houston

_scotty_ · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Oct 2003, 11:01 pm »

Quote from: Brad

Scotty,

How do you think the '25 will do with a phono stage plugged into it?
How 'bout a networked audio device playing AAC/MP3/WAV direct digitally into it?

t.i.a.

Also, is it worth the extra $70 or so to get the '45?

Brad in Houston

It should sound fine with a phono stage plugged into one of the analogue inputs. I don't know if it is MP3 compatible and the owners manual is not forthcoming on this matter. There is a .4lbs weight difference between the
two receivers the XR45 weighs 9.2 lbs and the XR25 is 8.8lbs. It is possible that some of that weight is in the power supply If the XR45 was
available I would get it for this reason alone.

JLM · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Oct 2003, 12:15 am »

O.K. I have a simple/stupid question:

Could you combine the 6 channels within the Pannys to input 2 channels and output 2 channels to achieve 3 times the output for power hungry speakers?