[Goosepond]

I would imagine a 300B would sound wonderfully seductive but you would sacrifice dynamic control.

True, unless you happen across a pair of Butler Audio Monad monoblocks. 

Hi Jim,

You're in luck. I hear some crazy guy in Mississippi sold his pair of Butler Monad's. Maybe you get find out where they went and get a hold of them. 

Gene

[bbchem]

   Dear Goosepond, I am currently using a Tad-60 class A/AB tube amp. I am a tube freak and had to try and find a good fit. The Tad is 60WPC of tube watts so people tell me its more like 120 Solid State. Anyway most of my reviews of the Minis are with this amp and I love the combo.

 Regards and Good Luck, Bill   

[Double Ugly]

Hi, Gene -

I would imagine a 300B would sound wonderfully seductive but you would sacrifice dynamic control.

True, unless you happen across a pair of Butler Audio Monad monoblocks. 

Hi Jim,

You're in luck. I hear some crazy guy in Mississippi sold his pair of Butler Monad's. Maybe you get find out where they went and get a hold of them. 

Gene

Yeah, what an idiot. 
Wonder what's up with *that* guy.

[Goosepond]

Don't hold me to this, but I heard he had "Spectronitis". 

Gene

[billc]

I am happy, actually ecstatic (), to report that my Mini's are on the way. 

Bob shipped them late last week, UPS says they have landed here in NJ, and are scheduled for delivery Tuesday the 19th.   

Just in time for a listening session scheduled for next Sunday (24th) with the NJ Audio Society gang...

There will be lots to report after next Sunday.  I will post my impressions, as well as other listeners comments.

Stay tuned...  This is gonna be fun !

Bill C.

[Bill Baker]

Hey Bill,
 Are you home now? How was your trip?
 You'll have plenty of time to burn those Mini's in for a few days before the 'gang' gets to listen. Keep in touch with your thoughts.

[Double Ugly]

Don't hold me to this, but I heard he had "Spectronitis". 

Gene

Sounds serious, but I'm told the prognosis "sounds" promising.  

[Aether Audio]

Bill,

I tried a pair of 8WPC set amps and they did not have the drive needed to really push the envelope of the minis.

Thanks for the input.   I've been asked about SET amps with the Minis and I tell everyone that while they will undoubtedly "work," it's not a combination I recommend.  If you all think about it, if you were an automobile designer you wouldn't mate up a 4-cylinder engine with a frame/chassis that was intended for Formula 1 racing...would you?

We all have to remember that the name "Mini" is somewhat of a "misnomer."  When it's big brother - the Timepiece 3.0 - has been repeatedly reported to blow away many large floorstanding speakers, well... the Mini is of the same pedigree so you should adjust your expectations accordingly.  The only thing that's really "mini" about it is its physical size compared to the 3.0.

That being the case, one wouldn't really expect to extract the most performance from the Mini if it isn't given the kind dynamic drive it is capable of reproducing.  I could get into the technical tradeoffs of sensitivity vs. bass extension and all the rest, but most already understand this.  For those that don't, just trust me... the Mini was not designed to derive it's maximum potential from a small amplifier (under 50 watts) - SET or otherwise.  So please... don't fault the speaker if you try it and it doesn't work in that application.

Mike,

Once I hit 15 hours or so, everything locked into focus and they haven't changed at all since that time.

Yep... sounds about right.  As I've been saying all along, our stuff doesn't need a lot of break-in (except in the case of those Extreme Mundorf Crossovers).  It's just my opinion, but I really question what's going on if a transducer is found to need a lot of break-in.  Dielectrics in capacitors/wires, etc... I can understand.  Mechanical devices (drivers) are another story.  Whatever... everyone is free to believe as they wish.  All I know is that in my opinion, if one of my designs doesn't sound pretty darn good "right out of the box," it's "back to the drawing board" for Bob.  If anybody were to ask my advice, I'd say to be leery of any speaker that needs 100 hours or more before it starts sounding "good."

-Bob

[lonewolfny42]

yo2tup and billc.....Did you Mini's arrive yet ? 

[billc]

Mini Update...

The Timepiece Mini speakers arrived exactly on schedule, on Tuesday the 19th.  They shipped well - no package damage at all, and the speakers look perfect.  Bob really knows how to pack these speakers.  The hardboard shielding is very effective, although it seems that my packages were handled by the very few careful UPS handlers.  I put the Mini's up on some stands I had put out for this purpose, biwired em up, and switched the system on.  (ModWright 9.0SE preamp to ASL Hurricane monoblock amps). 

I have only had about 30 minutes of listening each of the last two nights before I had to shut down.  But given very limited source material, and limited break-in and play time, I have to say my early impression is that I am very very impressed with what I heard - given that I have not yet been able to seriously crank up the volume.  Note: I am running Ellis 1801b's side by side, and it will take a bit of sorting out to detail the differences, but the speakers are both excellent, but very different.  The much lower crossover point in the Mini's has a distinct effect.

I would say that my initial impressions are: tremendous accuracy (very very clean and true to the source material), excellent tweeter/woofer integration and coherency, clear clean top end, very good bass (but volume was low), and excellent horizontal soundstage.  Soundstage depth and height still to be assessed.  Also, very good dynamic responsiveness. 

Color me very impressed.  Built quality is excellent.  Heft (weight) of the speakers is quite surprising.  I expected them to be much lighter given their size.  When I lifted them from the packing materials - watch out - I had to tighten my grip immediately to keep from dropping it. These are not large speakers, but weigh more than many others I have lifted, and all others of these dimensions.

Not yet adequately considered: dynamic range/response; midrange presence (piano and female voice), and more expansive source material experience.  Most source material thus far is jazz and string instruments (guitar, etc).  Ellington's Jazz Party in Stereo (on vinyl) was jaw-dropping. 

These very big (not so) Mini's need some break-in time, and some attention by me to placement in room.  I was so excited at receiving the Mini's that I put them into service within 5 minutes, which was not the most considered and careful approach.  Nevertheless, they seemed quite forgiving of my haste in setup.  I will say that the stands I used seem a bit low.  These speakers seem to sound best to me when the woofer is at ear level (thus the tweeter is slightly above ear level).  To assess this I have shifted my listening position vertically, ranging from sitting on the floor to standing.  Given the low stands, sitting low seems to sound best and give the widest and highest soundstage.

Overall, I find them exceptionally accurate, very true to the recorded signal, not euphonic or colored or edgy, almost transparent is terms of disappearing (but they need a bit more break-in to really assess this).

Wow!  Just out of the box...  what a speaker !!

They are going to make a big splash Sunday ! 

It will early next week before I post additional impressions.  I just won't have any focused listening time until the weekend. 

Bob, THANK YOU for a great speaker, and for your honest, personal, and thoughtful dealings !

More comments to come.  Same channel.

Bill C.

[yo2tup]

Color me very impressed.  Built quality is excellent.  Heft (weight) of the speakers is quite surprising.  I expected them to be much lighter given their size.  When I lifted them from the packing materials - watch out - I had to tighten my grip immediately to keep from dropping it. These are not large speakers, but weigh more than many others I have lifted, and all others of these dimensions.

My speakers arrived on time too, and I agree.  These speakers are very solid!  I too had to tighten my grip immediately when I pulled them out... almost dropped them!  The woodwork is top notch, the best I've seen in any speakers.   They are also very pretty when positioned.  They look a lot better than I thought they would.  The waveguide is very cool.

Sorry no listening impressions yet.

[bhobba]

Note: I am running Ellis 1801b's side by side, and it will take a bit of sorting out to detail the differences, but the speakers are both excellent, but very different.  The much lower crossover point in the Mini's has a distinct effect.

Keep us posted on how they compare to the fine Ellis 1801b's.  The minis are more expansive and people quite reasonably want to be assured they are getting something for the extra money.  My gut feeling is they will be better - not hugely (after all this is a game of diminishing returns) - but definitely better.

Thanks
Bill

[lonewolfny42]

Thanks guys....glad to hear you received your speakers...the fun begins...

Bill.....For stands....look into getting 24" stands....that should work just fine...
Take some photo's at the meeting in N.J. ....thanks.

                                  Chris

[Aether Audio]

Friends,

I know yo2tup didn't want to say anything that he felt may hurt SP Tech, but I feel the need to divulge the fact that we did have an issue with his pair.  The following is for the benefit of anyone shipping speakers that aren't shipped on a skid.

The fact is that when yo2tup removed one of the Minis from its box... it was damaged.  Fortunately the damage was not to the enclosure whatsoever.  In our case, our packaging pretty much eliminates that potential problem.

This was a strange case and happened once before to a NuForce S-9 that we shipped to Singapore.  The damage was to the woofer in that the aluminum cone actually separated from its rubber surround - essentially came unglued.  Now how in the world could that happen.   I think I have figured it out and am thus offering this warning to all.

When we pack our speakers they are all laid on their sides as opposed to either face up or down.  They are then encapsulated with thick layers of Styrofoam on all sides and then 1/8th-inch hardboard panels on all sides between the Styrofoam and the outer corrugated box.

Well, what I think happened is that somebody at UPS dropped the box on its side such that the front of the speaker was facing down.  The sudden impact compressed the front panel against the Styrofoam making an air-tight seal and the air space in front of the woofer was highly compressed.  The resulting high air compression drove the woofer cone in (backwards) so hard and far that the cone de-laminated from the surround.

The upshot is that we will start placing "standoffs" at key points along the front baffle such that air channels around the enclosure are created.  That should fix it.  This is something you may all want to consider if you use foam packaging like we do.   Hope somebody out there finds this info of some value.  Of all the darn things that could happen, one would hardly ever expect the woofer cone to come apart.

Anyway, a new woofer will soon be on its way to yo2tup and then maybe we'll all get to benefit from his experience.  Until then I guess we'll all just have to wait.

Take care,
-Bob

[Bill Baker]

 Bill C:  Hey, I want a picture of the setup too for my website I will be eager to hear your findings on the Mini's and hopefully my recommendation on them was well desearved

 Have fun at the meeting on Sunday and feel free to give me a buzz with any setup questions. Since you already have a pair of speakers there with Bob's Waveguide, you are obviously familiar with some of placement ideas.

Maybe one of the 'other' NJ members will bring over a pair of EXtreme Canes? or modified Quicksilver mono blocs? I forgot to ask when they were here this week.

Talk to ya soon.

[Double Ugly]

Well, what I think happened is that somebody at UPS dropped the box on its side such that the front of the speaker was facing down.  The sudden impact compressed the front panel against the Styrofoam making an air-tight seal and the air space in front of the woofer was highly compressed.  The resulting high air compression drove the woofer cone in (backwards) so hard and far that the cone de-laminated from the surround.

That had to be a heck of a drop, Bob.  My Timepieces were as well or better packed/protected as any component I've ever received. 

[Albireo]

Friends,

I know yo2tup didn't want to say anything that he felt may hurt SP Tech, but I feel the need to divulge the fact that we did have an issue with his pair.

Why can't every forum be this civil and level-headed?

Well, what I think happened is that somebody at UPS dropped the box on its side such that the front of the speaker was facing down.  The sudden impact compressed the front panel against the Styrofoam making an air-tight seal and the air space in front of the woofer was highly compressed.  The resulting high air compression drove the woofer cone in (backwards) so hard and far that the cone de-laminated from the surround.

Reminds me: I've always been told you can blow off the bottom of a beer bottle with a sharp rap to the bottle's mouth using the palm of your hand. Never could get it to work myself, but rather amused to see the same thing at work in hifi. Unfortunately, having seen the extremely rough handling packages can suffer at the hands of UPS I'm not at all surprised that an unlucky full-face impact by a heavy speaker could lead to that kind of damage. BTW I despise UPS with a passion; not that FedEx Ground doesn't occasionally have issues too, but I've seen too many UPS guys around the country make > 6-foot drops standing upright in the delivery truck to think that it's an isolated phenomenon.

[yo2tup]

Thanks Bob.   

Reminds me: I've always been told you can blow off the bottom of a beer bottle with a sharp rap to the bottle's mouth using the palm of your hand. Never could get it to work myself, but rather amused to see the same thing at work in hifi.

Try it with an unopenned glass ketchup bottle.  It works very well....I've done it before 

[Double Ugly]

BTW I despise UPS with a passion; not that FedEx Ground doesn't occasionally have issues too, but I've seen too many UPS guys around the country make > 6-foot drops standing upright in the delivery truck to think that it's an isolated phenomenon.

Absolutely. 

I have a UPS store less than 5 miles from my house, but I make the 30-mile roundtrip drive to the Fed Ex facility every time I need to ship something. 

I suppose it's the local delivery folk, but UPS is a disaster waiting to happen 'round here. 

[ted_b]

Although UPS Ground can be iffy, I've found that Fedex Ground is franchised, and that their quality is hugely disparate across regions.  OTOH, FedEx everything-thing-else is corporate and does a magnificent job on electronics.