What next for the best upgrade?

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cannon_dt

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What next for the best upgrade?
« on: 11 Jan 2008, 05:41 am »
Hello to all ye experts !

Here goes my story - the hunt for the perfect upgrade.

My set up : Marantz CD 7300 cdp, Marantz PM 7200 amp and Jamo E855. Also I have not invested in any cables or interconnects (I am using probably the lowest grade cables and I have not done biwiring).

My problem : Fatigue , some how I tire out with my set up. Its not a particular sound problem (though I feel the mid range is not good with the Jamos) but it is more related to fatigue I guess, I tire out after an hour or two and I feel something is wrong.

My research thus far : The following is something I did that I think is an acid test in order to determine who is my weakest link (speaker/amp, cables apart of course)

I got my friend\'s NAD C372, hooked it up to my CD7300 and Jamos in order to see if my amp has an issue. The NAD definitely rocks - the sound is more natural and the bass is tight. Somehow the marantz sounded more coloured to me.

Then I took my Marantz PM 7200, hooked it up to my friends CD 7200 and Dynaudio Audience 52. So some configuration except that now I am seeing if there is a problem with my speakers. And man, did the Dyns rock, they sound fantabulous !!!

So in effect, I think my first upgrade should be the NAD - it sounds lovely, less tiring, less "shrilly" (I think the marantz overdoes the high/low freq making it tiresome, IMHO!). And this NAD can drive anyone, they are bloody powerful. Right?

Now for your expert advice : What should I do? I really think the NAD is my next logical step. But then I hear that the Dyns require something much more powerful than the C372. Is that true?
On the other hand I am also tempted to leave the PM7200 untouched and get rid of the Jamos and put the Dyns in their place. Would that be a problem, are the Dyns too much for the marantz PM7200?

To top it all, I auditioned the Dyn 122s, AE Neo, EPOS M12.2 and Canton 407 - all of them sound great and better than my Jamos but the 52s and the 122s are easily the best.

I am thoroughly confused and I turn to all you folks for your opinion/advice.

dave_c

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Re: What next for the best upgrade?
« Reply #1 on: 11 Jan 2008, 07:12 am »
Speakers first and then decide what amp you want to upgrade to based on the speakers.  If you like the sound of they Dynaudio's you should go that way first.  Once you are read to upgrade you can find an amp that fits your taste and power requirements.

maxwalrath

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Re: What next for the best upgrade?
« Reply #2 on: 11 Jan 2008, 07:22 am »
I went to go buy a NAD 370 (I think??) at a local shop, and tried a Jolida 301, and was amazed at how much better it sounds.  In that price range, a little tube magic did sooo much right in the midrange that the NAD seemed like a complete rip off. 

Best part, if you buy one new, you can resell it for no more than a $75 loss from what I've seen on A-gon. 

cannon_dt

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Re: What next for the best upgrade?
« Reply #3 on: 11 Jan 2008, 08:41 am »
Maxwalrath,  no Jolida in India and I have NEVER heard a tube in my life before :(
What about the merits of the NAD wrt to other integrated amps?

Also speaker suggestions?

Thanks dave_c, I am now at a juncture where I have decided that it is the speakers that must go first. What do you think about the marantz/Dyn combo? Is the Dyn a little too much for the marantz and is it true that they would not shine with the P7200? Any experiences in this line?

maxwalrath

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Re: What next for the best upgrade?
« Reply #4 on: 11 Jan 2008, 08:43 am »
I had the Audience 52's and liked them a bunch.  Great bass.

JLM

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Re: What next for the best upgrade?
« Reply #5 on: 11 Jan 2008, 10:37 am »
Welcome cannon_dt,

Speakers are the only transducer in your system (something that changes energy from one form into another), have to work in unknown environments, and are the only component "really" involved with physical movement so have the toughest job of any component in the audio reproduction chain.  Some speakers, like Dynaudio can be very inefficient, so sizing the amp is important and can only be done once the speaker selection has been made.  Some speakers, again like the Dyns have a low impedance rating and so need a more stable amp.  And of course some speakers provide deeper bass than others, which affects the type of amp that would work best.  Since they do all those functions quantifying their quality is hard to do and so speaker selection ends up being a very personal matter.  Therefore always shop speakers first. 

From your descripton is seems that you're suffering from listener fatigue.  This is the result from the brain working too hard/long to "make sense" of distorted sounds.  The list of possible distortions and reasons for them is long.  Some speakers are more "listenable" than others meaning that they are not very fatiguing.  No doubt the number 1 source for listener fatigue is playing the system too loud, either beyond the rated speaker/amp capacities, or your ear/mind to absorb further stimulation.  For me speakers with cheap drivers, metal cone/dome drivers, higher order crossovers, or exagerated frequency response (too much emphasis on a given frequency range) are the worst offenders.  Speakers that are less detailed (like simple built-in TV speakers) are often considered more listenable.  When you think about it, TV speakers don't exagerate frequency response, aren't metal, or have any crossover issues.

If you're limited by room size or how far the speakers can be moved out into the room, you should avoid speakers that have really extended bass response and horn loaded midrange drivers or tweeters (that can seem to be very much "in your face").  Your need to know your preferences in musical genres, your room size/equipment layout within the room, what audio attributes interest you, and of course budget before effectively shopping for speakers (or we can help much with specific recommendations).

Be warned that the first/biggest mistake audio shoppers make is being initially "wowed" by what they're hearing.  That "wow" factor is typically boomy bass and/or (zingy) treble frequency response and, as mentioned above, is a common reason for listener fatigue.  Take your time auditioning and of course do it without distraction.  Use music that you're familiar with and that represents your interests.  Limit yourself to auditioning 3, maybe 4 speakers per day as the mind can't "seriously" juggle more than that.  Try hard to listen at home too before making the final purchase.

Take care.

cannon_dt

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Re: What next for the best upgrade?
« Reply #6 on: 25 Jan 2008, 09:57 am »
WOW JLM !! That was a nice and a very meaningful post indeed. In fact I can identify with a bunch of things that you are talking about. I never considered my room size when I bought the speakers. I mow realize that the floor standing Jamos are an overkill for my small room. I should have got myself some book shelfs and thats another reason why I love the Dyns so much. They deliver so much in such compact sizes that I find it hard to believe !

Thanks for your advice, I will bear all this in mind before I indulge the next time