[jeffjazz]

I purchased the Sony AVD-C70ES unit at a closeout - floor model at Tweeter.  I brought it home to compare to my Conrad Johnson equipment.
I played the Sony for about 3 hours and it sounded poor for the 1st hour.
After about 2 hours the hashy, bright high end diminished and the sound warmed up somewhat.  I played familiar CDs, as well as a SACD of Chick Corea.  I thought the low end was tighter and it had more detail than my CJ stuff, but it sounded threadbare in the mids, the sound was not fleshed out.  It was also dynamically flat.  One strangthing about the Sony unit is that I can max out the volume and the level is not as loud as it should be.  Maybe a defective unit.  When I was just about to ge to bed my wife asked me to put on a Beethoven CD that she had listen to earlier on the CJ stuff.  She thought it sounded nice.  UNTIL a went back to the CJ for comparison.  The CJ stuff sounded MUCH better.  Finally instruments had body to them and there were dynamics.  Maybe not as much detail as the Sony or as good as a bottom end, but it didn't matter.  The CJ equipment was much more musical.  I am going to burn in the Sony for another week and make my final decision (which I think is already made, thank God Tweeter has a 90 day return policy!)
I read a review on this site about someone who had a 20K systen and thinks the Sony stuff is in nearly in the same league.  Well my system totals around 4-5K and it sounds (CJ amp/preamp, Art dio dac modded) MUCH better than the Sony.   Don't buy into the Hype!!!  If this Sony turns out to sound as good as my other equipment I let you know.  But so far it doesn't look good!!

[TheeeChosenOne]

Hi Jeff,
Welcome to AC.

Don't you think you're jumping the gun too quickly on the Sony with so few hrs of break-in?

You need 200+ hrs to break-in well.  Improvements can be heard at 35+.  If you read owners comments in the previous threads and on other forums, you'll notice near universal agreement on the merits of the unit and its sound--especially after some good break-in (as most hi-end equipment).

Hold off on the blanket statements and generalizations until you break-it in....well.    That is, IF you have this unit.

I hope you're not flame-baiting or trolling as you're new to this forum and nobody knows you.  

Also give some credit to the audiophiles on this forum who are sharing their thoughts (positive or otherwise) as they have lots of experience and knowledge with equipment before shouting out discreditive comments in a completely seperate thread as "hype".  

Happy listening (?)

[Sa-dono]

Hi Jeff,
Welcome to AC.

Don't you think you're jumping the gun too quickly on the Sony with so few hrs of break-in?

You need 200+ hrs to break-in well. Improvements can be heard at 35+. If you read owners comments in the previous threads and on other forums, you'll notice near universal agreement that it sounds mushy out of the box (as most hi-end equipment)

I hope you're not flame-baiting or trolling as you're new to this forum and nobody knows you.

Look at the date he joined. He's been a lurker since May 29. I highly doubt a troll would wait this long to post

I kind of found it funny..I figured someone had to yell hype eventually

Please do continue to break-in the unit Jeff (even if not listening to it), and let us know what you think after further break-in. As with everything, no product will please everyone, so maybe he will feel differently *shrugs*.

[Mad DOg]

Hi Jeff,
Welcome to AC.

Don't you think you're jumping the gun too quickly on the Sony with so few hrs of break-in?

You need 200+ hrs to break-in well.  Improvements can be heard at 35+.  If you read owners comments in the previous threads and on other forums, you'll notice near universal agreement on the merits of the unit and its sound--especially after some good break-in (as most hi-end equipment).

Hold off on the blanket statements and generalizations until you break-it in....well.    That is,  IF you have this unit.

I hope you're not flame-baiting or trolling as you're new to this forum and nobody knows you.

Also give some credit to the audiophiles on this forum who are sharing their thoughts (positive or otherwise) as they have lots of experience and knowledge with equipment before shouting out discreditive comments in a completely seperate thread as "hype".

Happy listening (?)

TheeChosenOne,

Don't you think you're jumping the gun w/ jeffjazz? So he doesn't like the Sony so far? No need to get testy....

After all, everyone is entitled to their own opinion...Let's try to avoid jumping on a new poster just because his opinion is different from Audiojerry's.

JeffJazz,

Welcome to the forum! Please continue to share your thoughts. Others will benefit from your opinions as not everyone hears things the same! Happy listening!

[maxwalrath]

The price tag of your main system is 4 or 5x as much, and there are some features the sony has that your main system doesn't (i.e. more $$ spent on a tuner, Dolby in the sony, less on high quality parts). Wouldn't one expect the CJ gear sound a lot better, burn in or not?

[_scotty_]

I purchased the Sony AVD-C70ES unit at a closeout - floor model at Tweeter.  I brought it home to compare to my Conrad Johnson equipment.
I played the Sony for about 3 hours and it sounded poor for the 1st hour.
After about 2 hours the hashy, bright high end diminished and the sound warmed up somewhat.  I played familiar CDs, as well as a SACD of Chick Corea.  I thought the low end was tighter and it had more detail than my CJ stuff, but it sounded threadbare in the mids, the sound was not fleshed out.  I ...

This products perfomance will probably be dominated by the power supplies capacitors breaking in for as long 150hrs.I would leave it plugged in and turned on with a CD in the tray, with no output caps to break in playing it shouldn't be all that necessary.Just don't let it go into some kind of power saving sleep mode. you want every supply in there powered up and breaking in.

[Jonathan]

The CJ stuff sounded MUCH better. Finally instruments had body to them and there were dynamics. Maybe not as much detail as the Sony or as good as a bottom end, but it didn't matter. The CJ equipment was much more musical

Wow.  These were my EXACT impressions when comparing the Sony to my Unico/Pioneer PD-65 rig yesterday.  In fact, in spite of having decided that the Sony would be my main rig, I'm not so certain now.  

I know it's not fully broken in yet, but I've been running the Sony nonstop for a couple of days. At this point, compared to the sound of the Unico,  the Sony sounds almost as if it's had digital compression added to it, i.e., it has a bit more zip on top and lushness on the bottom, than it should.  Not unlike pushing in a loudness button on a reciever (although not quite as extreme as that).  The Unico sounds much more relaxed, and really shines in the midrange (one its prime selling points).  Real instruments just sound more real (we're talking acoustic jazz and classical now).   Also, the Unico sounds better at lower volumes, while the Sony rocks way harder than the Unico at higher volumes. If you listen primarily to rock, pop, techno, or anything that's highly compressed to begin with,  the Sony may be your preference.

Again, the Sony brings an incredible amount of performance/value/features to the table, but at least for now, the Unico/Pioneer rig is a better hi-fi, in that it sounds more like real music to me.  The questions that remain to be answered are will the Sony "settle in" and smooth out over time, and if not will I be happy with features, conveniences, and decent sound rather than true-to-life, higher fidelity sound?  At this point, I'm really waffling.  

Damn, I was hoping that the Sony would take me off of this roller coaster ride.  We'll see...

[audiojerry]

Hi Jeffjaz, glad you are offering to add your perspective. Personally, I welcome more opinions from owners who are comparing it to their reference system.  

I read a review on this site about someone who had a 20K systen and thinks the Sony stuff is in nearly in the same league.

I think you are misinterpreting what I was intending to convey. What I thought I said was that the Sony sounds so good, it makes me question whether I can justify owning thousands of dollars worth of separates. The Sony is very satisfying and I believe does not do things to harm the music. Many high-end systems do more harm than good. However, I did say that my reference system is significantly better, and I wasn't sure if I can accept going backwards in terms of 2 channel performance.  

Jonathan, I'm happy you have decided to compare you Unico before parting with it. We've already discussed this.

For both of you, I am sure you will find significant improvement with additional break-in of the Sony. There was a very noticeable jump from 36 hours to 72 hours. I want to revisit the issue at 150+ hours before making another assessment. I still doubt that it will be on a par with my system, but it is already better than a lot of high-end systems I've listened to.

It's all of the features and the ridiculously low price that makes my decision tough.  

[jeffjazz]

I am not trying to flame anyone and I DO own the unit, just to clear up a few things.  I agree that I am probably jumping the gun, since it is NOT fully burned in.  I am running a Stereophile test track of pink noise for 24/7 to see how it improves.  Today it does sound warmer, but still compressed and hashy on the high end.  Only time will tell.  I should know better from doing tweeks to my equipment (mainly the Art DIO) that it can take weeks for a component to burn in.  Only time will tell.  I still have the issue of being able to max out the volume on certain tracks, and it not being loud enough.  I guess my speakers aren't as efficient as I thought they were.  Never had this problem on my CJ gear, though I know the tube preamp has tons of gain.  I'll let you all know what I think in about a week.  Isn't this audiophile stuff fun!!!

[Carlman]

Where are these units produced?  Can it be that there is a wide discrepancy of acceptable tolerances when these are manufactured?  Egad! Not Sony!

I can't believe any Sony products require long burn-in's... probably a week at the absolute most... but, I don't own the equipment in question.  

I have seen Sony quality suffer tremendously since the early 90's.  I don't like Sony for audio especially and won't buy it.  Sony is the next closest thing to Bose to me.  Many people buy it by name, not by audition.  If the AVD-C70ES is a big success, that will make 2 Sony products that (I know of) haven't sucked in 10 years.  And if it does live up to its hype, I think it's great that a few people went the distance to weed out the good stuff from the otherwise abyssmal lineup of Sony junk.  Additionally, I hope it lasts longer than a year or 2.

My blanket statement about Sony is based on when I sold it (for a few years), listened to it, suggested it to friends, and dealt with it from a support perspective. (for a little over 10 years)

Sorry to be so negative on a Friday... just venting frustration about all the hype in general Sony receives.

[Psychicanimal]

Many high-end systems do more harm than good.  

Words of wisdom...

[RussKon]

come on carlman....

tell us how you REALLY feel....

[TIC]

Carlman, you crack me up! A nearly blanket statement condeming Sony! For what? Of course some of their consumer products are crap! The market expects cheap stuff from BB, CC, Frys, etc. The market is demanding crap!

Just look at some of the "Audio Darlings" that I've owned.

Denon AVR-3300 receiver-horrible ergonomics from the remote-know fan issues

B&K AVR202-good sound, but not nearly good enough to replace my 2-channel rig. 2800 bucks and horrible user interface. I owned this receiver on 2 different occassion and even bought a closeout one for $900 from Upscale Audio. Even at that the approx. 70% off price for a brand new unit, it wasn't a good value.

Pioneer VSX-D850S-Top of the line "consumer" HT receiver in 2001-POS, junk. Horrible sound, terrible build quality. BTW, ever wonder why you see so many Pioneer consumer AND Elite B-stock receivers? Could it be because of the "known" DSP board issue they have/had?

Now, look at my Sony experience:

Sony STR-DB930-Nice, good build quality, ergonomics, sound and I bought it new for $405. Sold it when I found a "better" receiver for sale used locally. The "better" receiver was the Denon AVP-3300. I sold the Denon and bought another Sony STR-DB930 for $399 this time. Ah, much better (for me). Good ergonimics that I could actually use. That Denon remote was HORRIBLE.

Sony SLV-M20HF VCR. Kinda expensive at retail, but I bought one from my local B&M store for $220 a few years ago. By Far the best VCR I've ever owned or used. Excellent build quality, video quality and features (love the smartfile and the remote

Sony STR-DA4ES My current receiver. It is BY FAR my favorite receivers out of the ones I've owned. Bought a "static display" unit from a local B&M store for $695. GREAT ergonomics! Way easy to use. Best "all around" sound of the ones I've owned (disclaimer-I do not use my HT system for 2-channel listening-the B&K AVR-202 was better sounding for simply 2-channel listening). This thing SMOKES the Denon, Pioneer and B&K for all-around value IMHO, In my system, my type of usage.

I have never owned the CC, BB, Fry's type Sony consumer models. They may be junk, just like the comparable Denons, Pioneers, Onkyos (known fan issues),etc. But my experience has been nothing but positive concerning the Sony porducts I've owned.

I'm generally a "roll your own" kinda guy, not the typical Sony buyer. I use BottleHead Paramours and Dodd for amplification in my 2-channel rig. I have a resolution Audio Opus 21 CD player and I use Reference 3A MM De Capo speakers. I'm not a Sony crackpot! I think the higher end Sony's hold up just fine vs the competition. I shopped around, so I didn't even pay more, so there is no down side to owning Sony, IMHO.

Sorry to "rant" on a Friday!!!! But I was provolked!!!!

BTW, Carl, I do think that everyone is entitled to their opinion and I think yours is founded on your personal experience. I've just had a different experience than you and wanted to share it with the class!!!

Enjoy (I know I will enjoy my Sony!),

TIC

[audiojerry]

I still have the issue of being able to max out the volume on certain tracks, and it not being loud enough.

Yes, I noticed the same thing. Max setting is 46?, I believe. On some cd's that are recorded at a lower level, max volume was not enough. On the majority of cd's it was not an issue, but my preamp has a lot of gain.
On the good side, even at maximum volume there was no sign of clipping.

[Carlman]

Thanks for balancing me out, TIC.  Glad to bring a chuckle, as well!  My 'hands-on' experience has been with the 70% consumer level junk and 30% ES.  The ES stuff I've experienced was in people's homes, where I installed it or added something to it.  

Comparing it to Bose is probably a low-blow and unfounded.  It just seemed to me, the same people that would buy Sony would equally consider Bose for home electronics.  Listening to the ES line didn't wow me anywhere I heard it.  (homes or stores)  I just never thought Sony deserved the hype in audio gear.... much less 2-channel audio... Does Sony make an amp, pre-amp, or anything non-HT?  That may have something to do with it as well...

[TIC]

Carlman,

We should be politicians! We disagree based on our own experiences (not what someone told us to say) and we were respectful of the oppositions opinion (even though we don't agree). Maybe we could change the world (or agree that it's OK as is!).

That's what I like about this forum!

BTW, I would never own Bose because I think their advertising borders on criminal and their pricing is rediculous! However, if I were a manufacturer, I would envy their name recognition and reputation (although unfounded).

Now, about this particular Sony: The "lure" of an all-in-one that sounds good is strong for me. I would love to free up some audio rack space. Currently my 2-channel rig and my HT rig sit in the same double wide rack. They share the same physical space, but they do not share speakers. The De Capos are on proper stands and the Jamo A510 "Art" speakers are mounted on the wall. Anyway, a savings of one rack "spot", where my DVD sits, would be nice. However, I would not sacrifice this convenience for sound quality.

Anyway, It will be interesting to see (hear) how this plays out. Who knows, there may be a time in the future where I don't have to have a tube based amp to get the sound I desire. (But, I'm not holding my breath!!!)

Enjoy,

TIC

[BrunoB]

I still have the issue of being able to max out the volume on certain tracks, and it not being loud enough.

Yes, I noticed the same thing. Max setting is 46?, I believe. On some cd's that are recorded at a lower level, max volume was not enough. On the majority of cd's it was not an issue, but my preamp has a lot of gain.
On the good side, even at maximum volume there was no sign of clipping.

I confirm what audiojerry wrote. Furthermore, with low level CD's and SACD's, I have to push the volume up and  the hiss is noticeable.

Bruno

[warnerwh]

Carlman made a good point about the parts quality variance.  No doubt one unit could be much better than another.  I'll bet there's a variation of 10% on some of those parts from one unit to the other.

[Jonathan]

For whatever it's worth, through my De Capos I hear no hiss, regardless of volume, and have not needed to exceed 25 or so on the level control (30 would be ear-bleeding loud).  My room is around 19 x 12 with lots of carpet and furniture.

[_scotty_]

Some pespective is in order here.Does the SONY have to sound better
than a $20,000 investment in top flight gear for perhaps 1/20th the cost.
What if it sounds better than $5,000 worth of gear that doesn't work together or sounds like crap. It  has been stated on this forum that the SONY at least does no harm to the music.This is a good trick all by itself.
There is a new thread, Where to invest 1k.In light of the paradigm shift going on would you tell someone to spend their money on a Rotel or Adcom, amp preamp combination at this time.