The Technics SL-1200 Mk. II....Bastardization

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #60 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 06:57 am »

Quote from: SET Man on 22 Dec 2007, 06:49 am

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 22 Dec 2007, 06:34 am
.....just need a Victor now...

Hey!

Maybe I could help you look for one.

Take care,
Buddy

I can always borrow yours....

mjosef · « **Reply #61 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 07:17 am »

Quote

I should drag out my old Technics TT....but its been buried for years...under other equipment boxes. Its not a 1200....its a SL-1350.

Woow...is that a changer spindle I am seeing on that thing? That brought back some memories...

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #62 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 07:20 am »

Quote from: mjosef on 22 Dec 2007, 07:17 am

Quote
I should drag out my old Technics TT....but its been buried for years...under other equipment boxes. Its not a 1200....its a SL-1350.
Woow...is that a changer spindle I am seeing on that thing? That brought back some memories...

Yep....stack'em up....

But I never used it that way....spindle is removable for single play.

mjosef · « **Reply #63 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 07:44 am »

Yeah..my very first turntable (might have been a Garrard, can't remember) was a changer...stack 'em high and you got non stop music for an hour and half....party party party. THose records were probably screaming from the torture.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #64 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 07:49 am »

Quote from: mjosef on 22 Dec 2007, 07:44 am

Yeah..my very first turntable (might have been a Garrard, can't remember) was a changer...stack 'em high and you got non stop music for an hour and half....party party party. THose records were probably screaming from the torture.

Your correct....but records were cheap back then...so less costly to replace once you scratched them all up by stacking them.....

mjosef · « **Reply #65 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 07:54 am »

I dunno...3 - 5 bucks was a lot of money for a poor school boy like me then.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #66 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 07:55 am »

Quote from: mjosef on 22 Dec 2007, 07:54 am

I dunno...3 - 5 bucks was a lot of money for a poor school boy like me then.

Ahhhh....there were $1.99 bins...and less.

mjosef · « **Reply #67 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 08:01 am »

true true ..forgot about the bargain bins...I got a lot of the .99cents bargains at Woolworth back then. But then they were the old releases/reissues/cutouts.The latest stuff cost big bucks.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #68 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 08:07 am »

Quote from: mjosef on 22 Dec 2007, 08:01 am

true true ..forgot about the bargain bins...I got a lot of the .99cents bargains at Woolworth back then. But then they were the old releases/reissues/cutouts.The latest stuff cost big bucks.

I remember paying $1.99... for a new copy...."Meet The Beatles"...at Sears....way back when. Ah....those were the days....

mjosef · « **Reply #69 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 08:16 am »

YEah..and I had just started primary school...was stuck with redifusion radio back then...

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #70 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 08:20 am »

Oh....lets see....where were we....oh, thats right.....

The Technics SL-1200 Mk. II....Bastardization ....got a little carried away John....sorry....

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #71 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 03:34 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 22 Dec 2007, 08:20 am

Oh....lets see....where were we....oh, thats right.....

The Technics SL-1200 Mk. II....Bastardization ....got a little carried away John....sorry....

No worries with me...I know some folks get peeved by wandering topics...I think it's all in good fun between enthusiasts. And, besides, this post is actually getting you to think about unearthing your old TT and start to really enjoy those tunes

John

WGH · « **Reply #72 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 04:35 pm »

I have been enjoying reading the Technics SL-1200 chronicles. Lately I have had outboard power supplies on my mind due to the fact that removing the internal transformer from the H/K T55C makes such a huge improvement, I was wondering if anyone has tried the KAB PS-1200 Regulated Outboard Power Supply (mentioned in Marco's review thread) yet? It's not on the price list so it might not even be available anymore.
http://www.kabusa.com/ps1200.htm

From the web page:
The PS-1200 is designed to replace the internal power source of the Technics SL-1200 MK2, 3 or 5 series turntables.

The PS-1200 provides a very clean, stiff regulated DC voltage. This eliminates three sources of sonic contamination: The electromagnetic field and mechanical vibration of the internal transformer; and the large peak-to-peak ripple voltage of the internal powersupply.

The turntable plays quieter and the rotational stability is enhanced because the 1200's internal regulator can now concentrate exclusively on regulating the load of the motor.

Wayner · « **Reply #73 on:** 22 Dec 2007, 04:42 pm »

Last night 2 discoveries were made. My gob of plasticlay on the cartridge became counter-productive. On certain records, the sound became mushed. So, to gain the spacious open air of the VPI in it's current set-up, I removed the plasticlay and also added the Technics headshell weight (7.5 grams) since the AT440MLa fell 1/2 gram out of the recommended weight zone. After recalibrating, I am liking what I hear. Basically I have an un-tweaked SL-1200. Any attempts at tweeking so far have been removed. I am using material with vocals on it as I believe if the voices track right, the rest will fall right in line. I also like to sample piano. Sounds like I should put on some Billy Joel, Piano Man!

Wayner

Added later: Tracking at 1.5 grams. 3rd album and.......

BikeWNC · « **Reply #74 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 02:23 am »

Is KAB supplying a tonearm wire mod for the 1200 Mk ll yet? I can't find it on their website.

Andy

Brad · « **Reply #75 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 03:00 am »

It's listed as an option if you navigate from the turntables page to the SL1200 page to build your 1200.
$169

Wayner · « **Reply #76 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 07:00 pm »

Today I have at least 2 issues with the stock table. First and foremost is the VTA calibration on the tonearm. Using the information supplied by Audio Technica for cartridge height, verifying it by measurement and using the supplied height chart, I am off by 1mm. With the present set up, I should have a calculated hight of 17.44 mm which would correspond to a 2.44 position on the calibrated wheel. However, when I place a mirror under the straight section of the tone arm (on top of an average thickness record, with stylus on the record, I have to drop the back of the arm 1 more mm (to 1.44) to get a horizontal image (viewing image and arm at the same time). I have proven to myself at least, that VTA is critical for proper tracking and imaging (depth, width) of the sound stage. While VTA can be set on the fly with the SL-1200, the proximity to the tonearm counterweight makes this risky at best.

The 2nd issue is the stock mat. I have never liked hard rubber mats as I think they make the table sound like rumble city. I have replaced the stock mat with 2 of my own mats ( to approximate the original thickness). The thickness has changed (from .23 to .18), I also accounted for this when calculating my VTA setting.

I will say that living with this table since Thursday has been positive, I am impressed for the value of the table and it technological superiority over models costing many times its modest price. The tonearm has received some criticism here at AC, but I think it is actually very impressive, again considering the tables cost.

Having the luxury of owning several makes of tables, it is quite interesting to compare the sound of the technics with them. Also of interest is the fact that all 4 tables that are currently set up feature the AT-440MLa cartridges, all in as "new" condition. This gives me a common denominator for comparison. Yes, you are right if you guessed that they all sound different.

I will see what the rest of the day brings for tweaking and untweaking.

Wayner

lcrim · « **Reply #77 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 02:07 pm »

wayner:
Having lived with this deck for years I just eyeball that the arm and the tonearm are parallel when I change LP thicknesses. Of course with the stylus resting in a groove. I may fool with it a bit more if my ears tell me its not right. I wouldn't do this on the fly because as you say the counterweight gets in the way of the locking lever on the VTA. Essentially eyeball it, raise and swing the arm, unlock and spin the platform, lock it off. check by eye again and so on. Kevin has told me several times that when the grooves are cut, the cutting stylus is at an angle that is slightly beyond 90 towards the direction in which it is cutting. So I rarely find tail up on the cartridge very pleasing. In any event, my ears are my gauge and I just don't check where the dial ends up.
I finally got rid of the heavy rubber Technics mat and use an Isoplatmat directly on the platter and a Herbies on top of that. My clamp works perfectly with that thickness and ts the best combination I've found.
All this sounds tedious but its actually pretty quick because everything works like a precision tool and not like a toy. Once you have setup a Technics 12xx you wonder why tonearm adjustments on other arms have to be so difficult. Mine has the damping tray and the Cardas rewire which addresses any negative aspects of the arm. Your comments after having actually lived with arm a bit adds more fuel to the fire.
There is a small jig which fits on the headshell during installation of the cartridge to help you to get the stylus in the proper position so that overhang comes out correctly. Don't know whether this is delivered with all units. Very worthwhile tool to have.

Wayner · « **Reply #78 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 04:59 pm »

Icrim,

I have the jig and have used it with success. I always verify things like this with my height gauge, anyway. I'm not totally goofy on VTA, and I do let my ears be the final judge. I have found through the years, that when a table is properly set-up, it will let you know. Tracking will be just right, with soundstage deep and wide. I also notice nice bass without weird woofer movement which is a result of improper alignment, tracking/VTA. Surface noise also decreases.

Last night I removed the headshell weight and did the entire arm set-up process again. This time with extremely positive results. The table is telling me it is very happy, indeed. I have problems finding accurate information, in particular with my AT cartridge. I've seen weight ratings from 5.5 to 6.5 grams. That is right at the cross-over point for using/not using the 7.5 gram headshell weight. I have decided that it sounds better without it. I am planning on buying the KAB silicone trough as well.

Today I'm going to have some wine (Pinot Noir, Willamette Valley) and just listen to some tunes. NO TWEAKING TODAY.

Wayner

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #79 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 05:12 pm »

Has anybody found that any 'power conditioner' (nuthin' too obscenly expensive, mind you) has been of value with the Technics SL-1200?

As it already takes raw AC and reconstructs and converts to DC....I'd think it less beneficial that the league of tables in the audiophool universe that use synchronous AC clocking out there...but is there some benefit to do so?

I currently use no conditioner as I found all of them to be slightly less better then no conditioner at all (that is, there were benefits, but the end result was worse - strident, less natural). I once had a mondo-big Balanced Power unit that made the music etched and unnatural with the amplification components (amps and preamp), but seemed to help the JVC Direct Drive TT (I didn't even have to connect the ground wire it eliminated noise to such an extent....and it was also DC servo) and the CDP player a bunch.

However, I am considering that just the TT may benefit from cleaner AC coming in???