[avahifi_lj]

Hello:

Recently I installed a Sangean HD tuner to my system.  I was interested to see how the new digital content compared to the standard analog content.  Here are my impressions:

First off, I was disappointed in the sound from the HD tuner.  Sure, the HD digital signal is free of fading, noise, and the other things that often pop up with analog tuners; however, the sound was just not that great.  What I heard was a narrow sound that didn’t come close to the CD quality sound that the HD stations advertise.  It’s hard to know if the limited sound is the result of a low bit rate digital stream, or a poor analog amplifier section.  My guess is it’s a bit of both as even with an analog FM signal, the sound is not much better.

It was a lot of fun playing around with the multitude of stations available on the HD side of the house.  In the Minneapolis area we have about a dozen FM stations (and a couple of AM stations) sending out HD signals.  Most of the stations have one additional HD content station along with their over the air broadcast, but in some cases there are multiple.  The content offered on the digital side includes a variety of non-standard content, including BBC news, comedy, blues, dance/disco, children programming, etc.  Most of the HD stations were commercial free.

I am keeping the HD tuner in the system for now.  As a high quality signal source, it’s not too good.  As a background source, it’s nice to have more variety.

Larry

[martyo]

Thanks Larry,

My jazz station recently started announcing that they now offer a HD broadcast too.

While we have you here, how does streaming from the internet from a radio station compare to listening through a tuner?

thanks

[Wayner]

Larry,

How far will HD travel into fringe or deep fringe areas? I'm about 60 miles west of Minneapolis.

Wayner

[Toka]

Thanks for your impressions, Larry! I (until very recently) worked in the radio industry (more on the fringe/tech side), and mentioning "HD" to any engineer I came across was sure to blow a gasket (or three). Lots of seedy backroom deals made it happen, and the results speak for themselves...that is, not very good. It can provide a good end-around to bad multipath, but any number of classic tuners (and a halfway decent antenna) would do the same, and sound worlds better. That doesn't even touch upon the adjacent-channel interference it causes, or the outright nightmare that is AM HD. A decent idea, implemented poorly, and about 15 years too late does not lead to success.

For those who may not know, the "HD" doesn't technically stand for anything ('cept maybe Hybrid Digital, but that depends on who/when you ask), and it is sub-MP3 quality, overall (assuming no sidebands, if so, half that with each add'l  channel). Its bombing in the marketplace so I don't expect to see it around much longer, but if the right people are bought off, who knows.

Anyway, I'm still on the lookout for one of those Philips tuners to send in to you folks, that is, if you still work on them...I'm using a Yamaha TX-1000U at the moment and it is fantastic. Not the last word in DXing but it is as quiet as can be, and with excellent separation.

[BrianM]

I remember when I first learned that "HD" didn't, in fact, stand for "high-def" (as one might be forgiven for, you know, assuming) and thought to myself well, this can't be good.     Sounds like it ain't.

[TheChairGuy]

Larry,

Have you run the signal thru a DAC yet...I understand the Sangean has digital outs 

John

[martyo]

Larry,

Have you run the signal thru a DAC yet...I understand the Sangean has digital outs 

John

And could you do that when streaming?

[avahifi_lj]

Hi:

Let me try and answer the questions:


Marty:  I have not tried running an Internet stream through my system.  I know Frank and one of our other people have played with it, and they seemed to like it.  As with most digital music, the sound quality will depend on how the music was encoded.  My experience, however, with the download music services has been very poor.

Wayne:  If you can receive the Minneapolis FM stations now, I can't see why you wouldn't get the digital signals.  You may need to have a bigger/better antenna, however.  I'm using the folded dipole that comes with the Sangean.

Toka:  I too know a guy in the broadcast industry, and he is not too keen on the HD audio thing.  I also know the guy who purchased the first Harris digital AM transmitter, and it works well for his AM station.  For a casual listening, such as listening in the car, HD radio probably is good.

John:  The Sangean I have does not have the digital output.  I know they introduced a new model that has an optical out.

Larry

[Toka]

Toka:  I too know a guy in the broadcast industry, and he is not too keen on the HD audio thing.  I also know the guy who purchased the first Harris digital AM transmitter, and it works well for his AM station.  For a casual listening, such as listening in the car, HD radio probably is good.

I have to agree there...maybe if they really concentrated on that market segment first, they would have gained some traction. But its a hard sell with satellite radio in so many cars already (I have, and love, Sirius in the car).

[dB Cooper]

First off, I was disappointed in the sound from the HD tuner.  Sure, the HD digital signal is free of fading, noise, and the other things that often pop up with analog tuners; however, the sound was just not that great.  What I heard was a narrow sound that didn’t come close to the CD quality sound that the HD stations advertise.  It’s hard to know if the limited sound is the result of a low bit rate digital stream, or a poor analog amplifier section.  My guess is it’s a bit of both as even with an analog FM signal, the sound is not much better.

When they say "CD quality", maybe they mean the $39 CD players sold at Target and MallWart. Yes, HD (which stands for "Hybrid Digital", not "HiDef) is almost of comparable quality, for what that is worth.

The compression levels used in HD are grotesque, making it satisfactory for car audio and boombox purposes but little else. The iPod generation doesn't care about sound quality though. But since you can have 150-channels-and-nothing's-on for your cable TV, why not have the same for radio?

[JeffB]

I hate this marketing crap.
I just learned that Full Screen DVD means 4:3 and not 16:9.
Then there is USB Full Speed which is actually 12Mbits/sec as opposed to USB high speed 480Mbits/sec.
And now HD Radio does not mean high definition.

There is also Musician's choice guitar strings which is a brand, and
Hand car washes which is also a brand.

[lazydays]

Hello:

Recently I installed a Sangean HD tuner to my system.  I was interested to see how the new digital content compared to the standard analog content.  Here are my impressions:

First off, I was disappointed in the sound from the HD tuner.  Sure, the HD digital signal is free of fading, noise, and the other things that often pop up with analog tuners; however, the sound was just not that great.  What I heard was a narrow sound that didn’t come close to the CD quality sound that the HD stations advertise.  It’s hard to know if the limited sound is the result of a low bit rate digital stream, or a poor analog amplifier section.  My guess is it’s a bit of both as even with an analog FM signal, the sound is not much better.

It was a lot of fun playing around with the multitude of stations available on the HD side of the house.  In the Minneapolis area we have about a dozen FM stations (and a couple of AM stations) sending out HD signals.  Most of the stations have one additional HD content station along with their over the air broadcast, but in some cases there are multiple.  The content offered on the digital side includes a variety of non-standard content, including BBC news, comedy, blues, dance/disco, children programming, etc.  Most of the HD stations were commercial free.

I am keeping the HD tuner in the system for now.  As a high quality signal source, it’s not too good.  As a background source, it’s nice to have more variety.

Larry

here's where I'm at when it comes to tuners. Recently I installed a mint Sansui tuner (717 I think), and I'm happy. I still like the better Onkyos better than the Sansui contrary to what the folks on Tuner Asylum say. May swap it out for a mint TU 9090II later this year if I can lay my hands on a good one. But alas there's more to this state of shear confusion. I listen to acoustic jazz 80% of the time, and have gotten hooked on XM radio in the car. I have an extra XM tune laying around, and may give it a try when I can latch onto a power supply. How it compares with an HD radio I don't know, but I mostly look for content anyway.
gary

[JoshK]

FWIW, I live in the NYC area and have clear and close visual site of the attennas, so HD radio doesn't add to ease of use for me.   I am not a jazz lover.  I have an Onkyo HT receiver that included a built-in HD tuner and I think it sounds worse than the same channels in analog through the same receiver.  Less background noise, but that really isn't too much of a problem as is for me.