Record Demagnetization!! It Works!

Wayner · « **Reply #20 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 10:49 pm »

I guess then, we have no scientific explanation of how it works or what it's doing. I just want to understand the physics of it.

Wayner

DaveC113 · « **Reply #21 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 11:06 pm »

A demagnetizer works by having a strong oscillating magnetic field slowly decay. This re-orients ferrous particles into a random order, so the item no longer produces a magnetic field. Something like a bulk tape eraser could work on a cd or lp, but its effectiveness will be determined by how you move the device in relation to what you're demagnetizing. If you look at commercial units, some are converyor fed so that the effect is repeatable.

Instead of tape demagnetizers, check out plate demagnetizers on ebay, they are cheap, and you just pass the object over the plate slowlt at a consistant speed, and it will be demagnetized. I will buy one and let you know how it works, although you'd need a big one for lps.

As far as the records and cds being non-ferrous, apparently there is enough ferrous impurities that the demagnetizer works. On cds there may be ferrous metals used in the ink on the label, or impurities in the plastic?

The demo at RMAF was VERY surprising. I thought the guy at in the Feastrex room was full of it, but everyone listening was amazed with how much the sound changed.

Steve, I have no idea why the negative ion generator works, but I agree that it is likely charging it in a certain way. The negative ions pass thru a bed of tourmaline on their way to the cd too. This was $600, and I think I'd rather spend $20 on a cheap negative ion generator if I feel like playing with it. BTW, I know this is the Vinyl forum but the products I was checking out were for cds.

SET Man · « **Reply #22 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 11:17 pm »

Hey!

Mike/topround.... first I have to say, I envy you that you got to hang out with Michael Fremer at his place.

Anyway, as for the record demag thingy. I've not heard or experienced it myself. It it hard to believe that what we considered a non-magnetic thing like vinyl LP would have a respond to a demagnetizer and change the sound.

But I think this is plausible. Well, I remembered watching a show "Modern Marvel" on History channel about magnet and there part of which they show and talk about super magnet coil. These super coil is many time stronger than those use in MRI machine, so strong that it could levitate a live frog in it chamber!

And guess what? Frogs are mostly water!

Here is a cool video I found... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-xw_fmB2KA

So, it turn out that everything dose have a tiny bit thing that respond to magnetic field called "diamagnetic"

Anyway, not to turn this thread of what already a hard subject to discuss into science project

But yes, I do believe that there is some going on with vinyl LP.... I think that thing must produce a very strong magnetic field to have any effect.

Still at these level of what this small machine could produce I still can't figure it out how it would change any thing on the vinyl LP

Hmmm... Mike/topround maybe if you go back to Mr. Fremer's place turn that thing up to 11 and stand on it than maybe it could levitate you!

Take care,
Buddy

Dan_ed · « **Reply #23 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 02:07 am »

I don't know if this changes any magnetic fields on the lp's or just re-orients things. I do understand that this uses a magnetic field to manipulate something. That's not so hard to understand, basic physics.

What I hear is more definition to the individual instruments. Like a veil has been lifted. I've been through about 35 records of all different genres and so far I've not found an lp that has not benefited from this.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #24 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 02:41 am »

Interesting stuff...I'm shocked there was a vinyl tweek I hadn't previously heard of out there

Good stuff

John

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #25 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 03:31 am »

The Walker Talisman is a de-mag/static device for $199.00.

I've been mulling this one for some time now.

John Casler · « **Reply #26 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 04:07 am »

Call me clueless, but when did vinyl gain the ability to be magnetized?

Am I missing something?

Jampot · « **Reply #27 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 06:31 am »

Srajan's take on the Walker gadget-

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/walker8/talisman.html

Perhaps it could be automated by building something into the RCM?

Jim

Dan_ed · « **Reply #28 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 02:43 pm »

IT'S NOT MAGNETIZING OR DEMAGNETIZING ANYTHING!

The magnetic field is used as a tool to affecting the orientation of charges at the particle level. That's as close as I can get to an explanation, but it is not magnetizing.

The Walker Talisman does work, but it seems not to be strong enough to leave a lasting change. I.e., you need to redo every so often with the Talisman, and maybe even with the Furutech. You certainly don't need to spend $200.

nathanm · « **Reply #29 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 03:38 pm »

Quote from: John Casler on 5 Dec 2007, 04:07 am

Call me clueless, but when did vinyl gain the ability to be magnetized?

Am I missing something?

The moment someone decided to make a vinyl demagnetizer.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #30 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 04:04 pm »

Quote from: Dan_ed on 5 Dec 2007, 02:43 pm

...affecting the orientation of charges at the particle level.

Ummm, thats the definition of magnetizing...

magnetize (mgn-tz)
To cause an object to become temporarily or permanently magnetic. For example, an unmagnetized object made of ferromagnetic material consists of molecules that are magnetic but randomly aligned, producing no net magnetic field; exposure to a magnetic field causes the molecules to align themselves with the field, producing their own net field, so that the object as a whole becomes magnetized.

DEmagnetizers randomly align a previously magnetic object by using an oscillating magnetic field that slowly decays...

Dan_ed · « **Reply #31 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 05:49 pm »

I agree, with respect to ferrous materials. I could easily be wrong, but I don't think there are any ferrous compounds in the vinyl. I fully admit that I don't really understand how this works. But, maybe there are and in enough concentration to make this work.

We do agree on the method: apply a magnetic field and then slowly remove it to randomize the charges. And I think we agree that the effects are quite audible.

For all you doubters, you really need to try this. I can't image anyone not hearing the difference, when this is done correctly. It has made a believer out of me and several other vinyl-philes I know.

martyo · « **Reply #32 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 06:30 pm »

My wife often asks if there is some product or process or whatever that I could sell or provide so that I could make a living in hi-fi. Apparently I have been thinking waaaaaaaaaaaaay to "in the box". I got it. MRI'ed records. The older smaller diameter machines are okay for the masses, but for the hi-end you must use the newer machines with the large diameter openings, they provide a much larger soundstage.

John Casler · « **Reply #33 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 07:55 pm »

And as a side note, I am certainly not questioning the "sonic" improvement, for I was the one who started the Bedini Dual Beam UltrClarifier thread which is a similar device claiming the "Demagnitization" of CD's.

I don't know if I beleive the claim of how it functions, but "I DO" hear a noticable difference.

As well I spin up all my DVD's before screening them.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #34 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 08:06 pm »

Quote from: Dan_ed on 5 Dec 2007, 05:49 pm

I agree, with respect to ferrous materials. I could easily be wrong, but I don't think there are any ferrous compounds in the vinyl. I fully admit that I don't really understand how this works. But, maybe there are and in enough concentration to make this work.

We do agree on the method: apply a magnetic field and then slowly remove it to randomize the charges. And I think we agree that the effects are quite audible.

For all you doubters, you really need to try this. I can't image anyone not hearing the difference, when this is done correctly. It has made a believer out of me and several other vinyl-philes I know.

I think its one of a couple possibilities...

1. Ferrous impurities

2. paramagnetic or diamagnetic properties of other materials in the material. these materials are attracted to or repelled from magnetic fields, but are not technically supposed to retain polar alignment... (SET Man already posted this one, someone used a magnetic field to levitate a frog...)

and maybe others, but thats my guess...

Dave

Dan_ed · « **Reply #35 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 08:24 pm »

I'm just glad it does work.

It's one of those changes that helps you rediscover all of your record collection again.

I'm betting this will work on ceedees. I'll have to try it soon.

Steve Eddy · « **Reply #36 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 08:31 pm »

Quote from: Dan_ed on 5 Dec 2007, 05:49 pm

For all you doubters, you really need to try this. I can't image anyone not hearing the difference, when this is done correctly. It has made a believer out of me and several other vinyl-philes I know.

But since people perceive differences with such things as photographs in their freezers, writing special words with a special pen on things, intelligent chips, clever little clocks, teleportation tweaks, etc., tying it really doesn't prove anything as to whether or not the device is actually doing anything.

At the end of the day, all you really know is that you've perceived a difference. And using that criteria, there's literally nothing which DOESN'T "work."

se

Dan_ed · « **Reply #37 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 08:59 pm »

Steve, that sounds like psycho-babble.

Be stubborn and don't try it. Doesn't hurt me. But you are missing something.

Myself and 4 other listeners heard the immediate improvement after listening to a few tracks, doing the mag thing, then listening to the same tracks. Our reaction, to a person and in unison, was wide-eyed dis-belief. It is that apparent. Granted, my system is very resolving. Maybe not the last word in that department, but very resolving indeed.

There are other reports here of a room full of listeners who heard the improvement, I believe at RMAF.

This change is not one of those, like with some cables, where you sit there thinking "well, I think I hear something".

Steve Eddy · « **Reply #38 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 09:15 pm »

Quote from: Dan_ed on 5 Dec 2007, 08:59 pm

Steve, that sounds like psycho-babble.

Dismiss it as psycho-babble if you'd like. But it's just simple human nature.

Quote

Be stubborn and don't try it. Doesn't hurt me. But you are missing something.

No, you're the one who's missing something. And that is that whether I try it or not, it doesn't change anything I've said.

But let's say I did try it. And let's say I didn't perceive any difference. What would your response be other than to dismiss my experience, claiming either I was deaf, or my system sucked, or both?

Quote

Myself and 4 other listeners heard the immediate improvement after listening to a few tracks, doing the mag thing, then listening to the same tracks. Our reaction, to a person and in unison, was wide-eyed dis-belief. It is that apparent.

So? I've elicited similar reactions from people on a number of occasions when absolutely nothing in the system they were listening to had been changed. It's trivially easy to do and that's why experiences such as this aren't terribly meaningful when it comes to determining whether or not there's actually anything going on outside the mind of the listener.

se

Dan_ed · « **Reply #39 on:** 5 Dec 2007, 09:47 pm »

Mass hypnosis, eh?

Your argument seems to be that if I, and others, hear an improvement, we're probably deluding ourselves and it proves nothing. But if someone hears no improvement then that proves the rest of us who think we hear an improvement are truly delusional.

Well, I'm not going to try to beat you into submission. We can just agree to disagree on this.