New Amplifier Lineup

Kevin Haskins · « **on:** 29 Nov 2007, 02:32 am »

With the addition of our new subs it was only natural that we would look for an amplifier line to offer with them.

The are very high quality pro-amplifiers that look more like your typical high-end audio product. The build quality is excellent, up to the same standard as our subwoofer line. They have very little in the way of signal processing (with the Woofer Widget we didn't want any) but plenty of protection features, including overheating, overvoltage, overcurrent protection, clipping indicator and protection, short circuit protection etc... They also offer independent gain controls on each channel. Nice feature for subwoofer duty.

FS250TS: Stereo 175W 8 Ohms, 250W 4 Ohms: Bridged Mono: 400W 8 Ohms, 600W 4 Ohms (Retail $820.26)

FS500TS: Stereo 330W 8 Ohms, 500W @ 4 Ohms: Bridged Mono: 700W 8 Ohms, 1050 @ 4 Ohms (Retail $953)

FS700TS Stereo 450W 8 Ohms, 700W 4 Ohms: Bridged Mono: 1200W 8 Ohms, 1800W 4 Ohms (Retail $1033)

FS1200TS Stereo 650W 8 Ohms, 1200W 4 Ohms: Bridged Mono: 2000W 8 Ohms, 3000W 4 Ohms (Retail $1170)

Obviously these are BIG power and the ratings are real. The higher power versions should easily handle a pair of subs in almost any of our recommended enclosures. Add a couple Woofer Widgets and you have state-of-the-art bass sub-system.

And some close-ups of front/rear.

Expect to see complete amplifier + Subwoofer + Woofer Widget combos that offer incredible performance in addition to bang/$. Its a good time to be a consumer of bass.

klh · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 03:00 am »

I take it these are 2 channel amps (as in the FS500TS is 330W x 2 @ 8 Ohms)?

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 03:03 am »

What's wrong with using these as regular amps for the mains, not the subwoofers?

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 03:47 am »

Quote from: klh on 29 Nov 2007, 03:00 am

I take it these are 2 channel amps (as in the FS500TS is 330W x 2 @ 8 Ohms)?

Yes... all of these are two channel amps.

Specification Sheets
http://www.faceaudio.com/pdf/TS.PDF

Owners Manual
http://www.faceaudio.com/pdf/FaceAudioTSseriesOwnersManual.pdf

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 03:58 am »

Quote from: ooheadsoo on 29 Nov 2007, 03:03 am

What's wrong with using these as regular amps for the mains, not the subwoofers?

Nothing... they are designed as full-range audio amplifiers for pro-audio use. That usually means concert use, live sound, churches, auditoriums, recording studios, etc.... All of those applications are full range.

For home audio the power ratings are WAY overkill but it wouldn't keep you from using them in that situation. They don't meet some audiophile standards of minimal circuitry in the signal path, including the protection circuitry, and volume pots. I wouldn't let that eliminate them for possible use, just keep in mind that they are made for a different market than your typical 2-channel audio system.

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 04:27 am »

Look at that F1200TS bridged into 4 Ohms, 3KW !!!

That makes me giggle just thinking about it.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 07:25 am »

Ok...so what objective differences would you say exist between one of these amps and one of your hypex amps? I understand it doesn't have that shortest path audiophile priorities, but what audible impact would you say it has?

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: ooheadsoo on 29 Nov 2007, 07:25 am

Ok...so what objective differences would you say exist between one of these amps and one of your hypex amps? I understand it doesn't have that shortest path audiophile priorities, but what audible impact would you say it has?

Arg.... that is the million dollar question and I don't have a good answer. Let me try...

I view them as two different tools. For our subs, you need lots of power and the fine subtle attributes of sound quality are a distant consideration. Our ears just are not real sensitive at 10-60Hz which is the primary bandwidth of most of my subwoofers. The biggest difference in sound quality between subwoofers has to do with the room, stored energy (in the room mostly) and distortion at the limits of the subwoofer. So...... those are the areas I attack when trying to design something. The room is difficult, the best I can do designing a subwoofer is intelligent room measurement & PEQ tools and good documentation. Stored energy is mostly due to the room, once again, there isn't much I can do about it designing subs, but I can document methods and suggest solutions to customers. You can use subwoofer box designs that minimize stored energy but the room is still the primary contributor. The distortion is something I have in my control and we build drivers to minimize it (the most important method) and suggest systems that offer more output than most people will be able to use, keeping the threshold of audible distortion out of the equation.

In terms of full-range use I don't have any experience using these new amps in my 2-channel system. Once you get up into the midrange our hearing becomes much more attune to differences and small choices in passive components and some voodoo aspects of audio become more of a factor. There is a lot of debate about the significance and methods to choose the best amp. I don't really think there is a best. It changes for every application. There are some systems where my 300B mono-blocks sound heavenly. There are others where those same amplifiers sound like ass. The Hypex amps are much more flexible, usable across a wider range of loudspeakers but the comparison is still valid. There are always going to be individual preferences, system synergy and budget concerns. These are all just tools and I reach for the tool I find most appropriate for a given job. I'd reach for the Hypex tool for full-range 2-channel use. I reach for the Face Audio amplifiers when I need a couple channels at 1.4KW to run a pair of 18" high-excursion subwoofers.

Does that answer your question?

JoshK · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 04:50 pm »

The big question in my mind, and maybe others is about the fans. Are the fans super quiet or audible?

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 04:56 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 29 Nov 2007, 04:50 pm

The big question in my mind, and maybe others is about the fans. Are the fans super quiet or audible?

It depends.... I obviously don't have a lot of experience with the line yet. They are controlled by the temp of the amplifier though. When the amplifier is running cool the fans run at a very low speed. As it reaches maximum temp they speed up to move more air so the noise is going to be temp. dependent.

I'll have more feedback after using them for a couple months.

Oh... they have 5 year warranty on parts & labor. From the build quality, it doesn't look like you will need to exercise it.

bpape · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 04:58 pm »

Kevin.

I have customers all the time who could use something like this.

My questions are:

- reiterate the question on the fan noise. Is it tolerable in-room? Is it adjustable (fan speed)?

- How exactly does one integrate the woofer widget with the amp? Is it designed as a module that's built in or is it another box inline that requires additional interconnects?

- And the question for those who want to use boutique cables - can they be made with RCA inputs or are the 1/4" TRS also balanced ins?

Bryan

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 05:11 pm »

Quote from: bpape on 29 Nov 2007, 04:58 pm

Kevin.

I have customers all the time who could use something like this.

My questions are:

- reiterate the question on the fan noise. Is it tolerable in-room? Is it adjustable (fan speed)?

- How exactly does one integrate the woofer widget with the amp? Is it designed as a module that's built in or is it another box inline that requires additional interconnects?

- And the question for those who want to use boutique cables - can they be made with RCA inputs or are the 1/4" TRS also balanced ins?

Bryan

Fan speed in not manually adjustable. The speed/noise is going to be dependent upon the load they are under, ambient temp and how you locate the amplifier. In other words its going to be situation dependent. I'll have more feedback after I get more time with the unit.

The Widget is its own device and yes... cables will be needed. Down the road, who knows.... we may have a version built right into the amplifiers but that is WAY down the road.

The Widget is currently RCA - RCA. Next year sometime I'm going to move over to the TRS/XLR inputs, and sell them with an adapter cable for those using RCA inputs. The Anadigm chips are natively balanced so going to a balanced input/output is just a matter of making some small board changes and changing the enclosure. I love balanced operation but we have to deal with the fact that most HT recievers and plate-amp subwoofers use unbalanced connections. Its ground loop hell dealing with unbalanced equipment but that is just a fact of life we have to deal with.

bpape · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 05:54 pm »

Thanks Kevin.

I think you've got some winners on your hands. One of these and the widget looks like a really nice setup for a reasonable price.

Bryan

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 06:41 pm »

Yea... the quality is very nice, our subs are top-drawer, and Widget is ground-breaking in a lot of ways.

I'm sitting pretty.... hard to find the quality of what we have anywhere, let alone for the price. I'm going to stick with DIY products though.... I like the customers, I enjoy the interaction and its fun. I don't have any desire to make finished subwoofers.

I do want to get my CNC machine up and going though just so I can prototype some cool stuff. I'm not Norm Abrahms with the router so having a machine to do my dirty work is my evil plan.

bpape · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 07:34 pm »

More of a Tim Taylor?

Bryan

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 07:35 pm »

Quote from: bpape on 29 Nov 2007, 07:34 pm

More of a Tim Taylor?

Bryan

Definitely.... lots of grunting too.

TRADERXFAN · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 10:46 pm »

I can't find the widget on the DIYcable website... where can I find a description of this thing?

Thanks.

-Tony

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 10:52 pm »

Quote from: TRADERXFAN on 29 Nov 2007, 10:46 pm

I can't find the widget on the DIYcable website... where can I find a description of this thing?

Thanks.

-Tony

Its not there yet.... I'm working on the final software revision before release and documentation.

Here is the link to info on the prototype.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=45836.0

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 11:46 pm »

Just a heads up.... the amplifier pricing listed is only good through December 2007 and only good with the purchase of a subwoofer driver.

Warranty is 5 years, not 3 and I'll have them added to the web site before the end of the week.

Expect the price to go up $100-$150 after the beginning of the year according to the sales rep.

TerryO · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Nov 2007, 02:16 am »

Quote from: Kevin Haskins on 29 Nov 2007, 11:46 pm

Just a heads up.... the amplifier pricing listed is only good through December 2007 and only good with the purchase of a subwoofer driver.

Its actually below what I'm supposed to sell them at but bundled with another product I can choose my price. Warranty is 5 years, not 3 and I'll have them added to the web site before the end of the week.

Expect the price to go up $100-$150 after the beginning of the year according to the sales rep.

Price without a subwoofer, just add $100 to each (may as well take the sub.).

Mr. Haskins,
This is one heck of a deal you're offering, I haven't seen anything this good in a long while. If you don't sell a ton of these, it'll only be because the word didn't get out to enough people or is this just a special for Audio Circle members?
Very attractive pricing on a high quality product.

Best Regards,
TerryO