130 years of sound recording and reproduction.

SET Man · « **on:** 29 Nov 2007, 02:31 am »

Hey!

Well, it all started 130 years ago this month that the first sound recording and playback was made by Thomas Edison.

The year was 1877 this month... actual date is debatable but likely to be around this month of November.

The machine that he came up with called "The Phonograph" was the first sound recording and playback machine. Before that this was unimaginable to people that anyone could captured sound and play it back later.

Not long after the first commercial machine was made. Thus gave birth to a new kind of entertainment and industry. And forever changed the world.

And this audio format was called "Cylinder" with vertical cut groove. Not long after the a new competing format was born... the "Gramophone" of which is in flat disc with lateral cut groove. This were first made by Emile Berliner

Above show Berliner with the first disc recording machine and playback machine on the right.

Imagine yourself at the turn of the last Century looking to buy a new Talking machine but which format would you buy? The Edison's Cylinder Phonograph or Berliner's Disc Gramophone?

So, with that for the first time in audio history we've got the first format war

Of course we are all know which format won that first ever format war. And surprisingly enough the disc Gramophone gave birth to other analog disc formats that still with us today like vinyl LP for example.

Well, today we are all enjoy listening to music and this became part of our daily life. We rarely thing of how it got started. It is fascinating for me looking back and see how far we have come since that first phonograph machine. Although there is a little set back a bit with the dumbing down format called MP3... yes it dose deserve it place but should be only for portable audio only but seem like many today are using that as their main and only way of listening music, very sad.

Anyway, I'm listing to my analog vinyl LP right now... yes the offspring of those first Edison's Phonograph cylinder and Berliner's Gramophone disc... and just want to share this with you guy.

Well, 130 years later it is still about the music after all.

Take care,
Buddy

xsb7244 · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 03:04 am »

any 100 years old audiophiles out there that can tell us about the past history of audio. we need to celebrate the past and history of audio. who were these guys that made audio what it is?
what products did these guys make? what exciting tube products and speakers were made in the 30s, 40s,
and 50s? some important products for the lack of a better word I bought. the AR turntable a cheap but
good turntable. the rabco SL-8e tonearm the first straight line tracking tonearm. so tell us about those great
products of the distant past?

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 01:27 pm »

Quote from: SET Man on 29 Nov 2007, 02:31 am

Well, it all started 130 years ago this month that the first sound recording and playback was made by Thomas Edison. The year was 1877 this month... actual date is debatable but likely to be around this month of November.

Awesome photos! Got a link to more like those?

--Ethan

KCI-JohnP · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 01:50 pm »

Very interesting and cool!! Like Ethan said, got anymore of those photos?

John

stereocilia · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 01:53 pm »

And, just like with mp3, the triumph of convenience over performance won the format war. The cylinder is able to keep a constant rate of speed across the needle where a flat disc slows down as it approaches the center. But, if you have a huge music collection then cylinders very quickly become an impractical storage problem.

carusoracer · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 02:58 pm »

Great Pics and nice write up

Marbles · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 03:07 pm »

Quote from: SET Man on 29 Nov 2007, 02:31 am

Well, it all started 130 years ago this month that the first sound recording and playback was made by Thomas Edison. The year was 1877 this month... actual date is debatable but likely to be around this month of November.

I wonder who he stole it from.....

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 04:49 pm »

Quote from: stereocilia on 29 Nov 2007, 01:53 pm

And, just like with mp3, the triumph of convenience over performance won the format war. The cylinder is able to keep a constant rate of speed across the needle where a flat disc slows down as it approaches the center. But, if you have a huge music collection then cylinders very quickly become an impractical storage problem.

Very good point in that the most convenient format wins, not necessarily the best. Some have said Edison's format was superior in sound quality. From what I've read, Edison's format lost out for a number of reasons -

He wasn't interested in the music aspect of it. His original idea was a dictaphone for secretaries. He only considered the music aspect after one or two others started using them for music, and didn't want them to make the money he thought he deserved.

He had an inferior music catalog compared to the flat disc. He didn't think the music itself was the selling point, but rather the technology.

He refused to change formats for far too long. By the time he started making machines that read flat discs, it was way too late.

This all came from my Uncle John's Bathroom Reader. If I can find a link somehow to the article, I'll post it.

SET Man · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 05:02 pm »

Quote from: Stu Pitt on 29 Nov 2007, 04:49 pm

Quote from: stereocilia on 29 Nov 2007, 01:53 pm
And, just like with mp3, the triumph of convenience over performance won the format war. The cylinder is able to keep a constant rate of speed across the needle where a flat disc slows down as it approaches the center. But, if you have a huge music collection then cylinders very quickly become an impractical storage problem.

Very good point in that the most convenient format wins, not necessarily the best. Some have said Edison's format was superior in sound quality. From what I've read, Edison's format lost out for a number of reasons -

He wasn't interested in the music aspect of it. His original idea was a dictaphone for secretaries. He only considered the music aspect after one or two others started using them for music, and didn't want them to make the money he thought he deserved.

He had an inferior music catalog compared to the flat disc. He didn't think the music itself was the selling point, but rather the technology.

He refused to change formats for far too long. By the time he started making machines that read flat discs, it was way too late.

This all came from my Uncle John's Bathroom Reader. If I can find a link somehow to the article, I'll post it.

Hey!

Yup, that's all true. At the end of the cylinder era the disc did improved somewhat to narrow the gap and with cheaper price and two sided disc, longer play time with larger disc, large ad campaign and I think more importantly much wider selection music catalog to back it up won out over the cylinder.

And you know what? The disc inherently flaws of inconstant speed across the disc pretty much still with us today

Take care,
Buddy

SET Man · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 05:25 pm »

Quote from: xsb7244 on 29 Nov 2007, 03:04 am

any 100 years old audiophiles out there that can tell us about the past history of audio. we need to celebrate the past and history of audio. who were these guys that made audio what it is?
what products did these guys make?

Hey!

I don't know if there is anyone here on AC that old.

I'm 30 btw... but I've always been fascinated by the history parts of audio as much as the new stuff we have today. I've been reading about this on my free time and of course thanks to the internet today it is easier to find out about these subject today.

Quote from: Ethan Winer on 29 Nov 2007, 01:27 pm

Quote from: SET Man on 29 Nov 2007, 02:31 am
Well, it all started 130 years ago this month that the first sound recording and playback was made by Thomas Edison. The year was 1877 this month... actual date is debatable but likely to be around this month of November.
Awesome photos! Got a link to more like those?

--Ethan

Quote from: KCI-JohnP on 29 Nov 2007, 01:50 pm

Very interesting and cool!! Like Ethan said, got anymore of those photos?

John

Thanks guys. Those photos above came from Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonograph

But there are many other sites about this subject also. Fascinating isn't it?

Take care,
Buddy

BradJudy · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 05:25 pm »

Here's a related video that will make you cringe - http://youtube.com/watch?v=8SdmlE5j7OM

SET Man · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 05:33 pm »

Quote from: carusoracer on 29 Nov 2007, 02:58 pm

Great Pics and nice write up

Thanks, BTW.... from your screen name are you related or a a fan of Enrico Caruso one of the greatest Tenor of the early last Century? Kindna like the very popular late Luciano Pavarotti of his time.

Talking about Enrico Caruso. He was one of the superstar tenor/singer of his time. He was first signed up with the Victor Talking machine company and became a well known artist since the his first disc was released around 1904 I think.

Take care,
Buddy

SET Man · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 05:38 pm »

Quote from: BradJudy on 29 Nov 2007, 05:25 pm

Here's a related video that will make you cringe - http://youtube.com/watch?v=8SdmlE5j7OM

Hey!

Ouch!

I'm sure that guy probably still kicking himself today for not been careful. Look like he was very nervous being on TV show and handle it pretty roughly. Very very sad to see.

Take care,
Buddy

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 05:55 pm »

Maybe now's the time for collectors to track down the legendary Adelina Patti cylinder (ca 1885) and the Brahms cylinder (1897), the latter reputed to sound like the faint tinkling of a wind chime outdoors during a hailstorm.

mfsoa · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 06:05 pm »

But what really doomed Edison was the fact that he wouldn't release any porn on the cylinders!!!!

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 11:40 pm »

No, speaking as a near-130 year old, what doomed Edison was something that none of you nor he foresaw:

How do you mass produce a cylinder with grooves???

Hint - manufacture of discs is a molding process.

SET Man · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 11:51 pm »

Quote from: Russell Dawkins on 29 Nov 2007, 11:40 pm

No, speaking as a near-130 year old, what doomed Edison was something that none of you nor he foresaw:

How do you mass produce a cylinder with grooves???

Hint - manufacture of discs is a molding process.

Hey!

Good point Russell. I totally forgot about that.

And that where Emile Berliner stepped in. If I remembered correctly I think he was inspired by the manufacturing of clothe buttons using stamping/molding process!

Take care,
Buddy

BrianM · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Nov 2007, 12:11 am »

Quote from: Brian Cheney on 29 Nov 2007, 05:55 pm

Maybe now's the time for collectors to track down the legendary Adelina Patti cylinder (ca 1885) and the Brahms cylinder (1897), the latter reputed to sound like the faint tinkling of a wind chime outdoors during a hailstorm.

I understand that the fabled Patti cylinder (1895 actually) was accounted for and determined to be a fake, i.e. not Patti's voice but Lucette Korsoff's.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Nov 2007, 09:36 am »

Thomas Edison listening to a phonograph.

Was Edison deaf?

That is how Edison described himself, but in fact he was not totally deaf. It is more accurate to say he was very hard of hearing. He once wrote, "I have not heard a bird sing since I was twelve years old."

So, why didn't Edison invent a hearing aid? He often told reporters that he was working on one; sometimes he tested hearing aids designed by others. But it seems that Edison saw advantages to being deaf. For example, he said that it helped him concentrate on his work. In 1927 he told a group of 300 hard-of-hearing adults, "Deaf people [like himself] should take to reading. It beats the babble of ordinary conversation."

Thomas Edison smiling as he holds his hand to his ear.

richidoo · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Nov 2007, 01:48 pm »

When Edison was a young boy he tried to jump onto a train, but wasn't strong enough to pull himself up into the car. Someone on the train saved his life by grabbing him by the ears and pulling him into the train. His hearing gradually worsened after that.