?

Danny Richie · « **on:** 15 Sep 2003, 01:50 pm »

Okay, what's the story with these cylinder-thing look-a-like things?

Have you discovered Ferrite beads?

tkp · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Sep 2003, 07:12 pm »

Cylinder Thing

These are lossy ferrite clams for cable. They are used in the computer industry for suppressing EMI on cable. The one that Xi-Trum and I used during the Bolder audition pack was the Z-CAT from TDK.

http://www.tdk.co.jp/tefe02/e9a15_zcat.pdf
Second page.

I got a sample box from TDK which has various sizes for different cable diameter. If you work for an electronic company, you can get them from local TDK distributor for free.

EMI clam from other manufacturers should work similar (as long as they are the lossy type). Some might be a bit more effective than other due to lower working frequency range.

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Sep 2003, 08:31 pm »

Thanks, tkp, for shedding some light on it.

When we used it, we did not loop the cable as shown in the above link. We just let the cable go straight through. I think one loop may enhance the effectiveness of the filter. Anyway, the advantage of the clamp filter over the Bybee is that it's not sitting in the signal path (directly).

If anyone can locate it, give it a shot. It snaps on and off easily to retrofit any cable. If possible, compare it with the Bybee filter to see what we're talking about. The best part about it is that it (or similar filter) is cheap to try out.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Sep 2003, 08:34 pm »

Quote from: Xi-Trum

If anyone can locate it, give it a shot. It snaps on and off easily to retrofit any cable. If possible, compare it with the Bybee filter to see what we're talking about. The best part about it is that it (or similar filter) is cheap to try out.

A lot of what goes on with the ferrite clamps is more of a mechanical resonance tuning than actual electrical noise control. There's a very interesting article I read about that.

Jay S · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 01:09 am »

These look like the ferrite RFI clamps that I got from Radio Shack for something like $5 each. Not sure if the RS ones are "lossy", though.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 02:14 am »

Here's the article!

http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb091998.htm

Hmm, The Psychic's up to speed...

Jay S · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 02:46 am »

Interesting article - have printed out all 3 parts to read through.

By the way, parts 2 and 3 are at:

http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb101998.htm
http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb111998.htm

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 01:41 pm »

Quote from: From the article

After years of experiments, I believe everything you place on or under a power cord affects the sound because of mechanical resonance changes, not because of any significant electrical properties. This includes ferrites. I was once a major believer in the electrical/electronic benefits of ferrites’ ability to absorb RFI/EMI from the electrical field around the power cord. Today, while I believe ferrites still do that, I question whether the sonic change from using ferrites has anything to do with the absorption of RFI/EMI. On the other hand, I now know ferrites change the sound of the cord mechanically. You can slide a ferrite along a power cord and get the same sonic signature you get from squeezing the power cord or sliding a wood block along it.

If what he's saying is FACT, then one can achieve great sonic improvement simply by "squeezing" ICs, powercords, etc. I guess the next major upgrade for my system would be rubberbands or cable ties.

That ought to be the best kept secret in audio.

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 02:15 pm »

All this talk is getting me interested in how these things actually work. Poking around, I found this blurb from Fi Magazine (posted on Bybee website):

Quote

These passive devices block the effects of wire resonances and reflections and filter EMI noise on the power line -- noise that may occur over a bandwidth of 20-40,000 Hz (despite the fact that the nominal AC frequency is 60 Hz). These low-level noise artifacts may not be overtly audible in even a high-resolution system, but getting rid of them often pays big dividends in a more spacious, dynamic, and engaging sound.

link: http://www.bybeetech.com/fi3.html#FI3

According to this, the Bybee also filters EMI noise. But according to Doug Blackburn from Soundstage, that shouldn't matter! There seem to be a lot of beliefs thrown out there and not enough facts. What gives?

In any case, the ferrite clamp filters DO work. And that's all that matters! Right?!

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 03:40 pm »

Quote from: Xi-Trum

In any case, the ferrite clamp filters DO work. And that's all that matters! Right?!

I get the TDK ferrite clamps through a mail order catalog for 99 cents apiece. I am very selective where I place them, though...

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 04:20 pm »

Quote from: Psychicanimal

I get the TDK ferrite clamps through a mail order catalog for 99 cents apiece. I am very selective where I place them, though...

Would you be kind enough to reveal where you got them from? Also, where woud you place them? Thanks.

[edit: typo]

JoshK · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 04:35 pm »

I think this thread has gone on a tangent. Maybe we should split off the into a topic of bybees and ferrites.

Tyson · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 04:50 pm »

Ferrite/Bybee posts have been split off to the 2 channel forum.

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 06:00 pm »

Good idea to split it off. The context of the discussion can be found here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=4682

To continue the discussion...

I find it intriguing that the Bybee and ferrite filters have many attributes in common. The Bybee claims to "block the effects of wire resonances and reflections and filter EMI noise". Ferrites also block EMI/RFI. Doug Blackburn believes that the benefit of the ferrite filters has more to do with reducing resonance, which, interestingly, is also touted by the Bybee filters. Based on these "assumptions", I'm guessing that the Bybee and ferrite filters have a lot more in common than in differences, which may explain their similar sonic attributes. The one obvious difference is that the ferrite filter does not sit directly in the signal path and does not require additional connectors, wires, solder, etc. This may explain the superior performance [in my system] of the ferrite filters over the Bybee filters.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 06:21 pm »

Quote from: Xi-Trum

Quote from: Psychicanimal
I get the TDK ferrite clamps through a mail order catalog for 99 cents apiece. I am very selective where I place them, though...

Would you be kind enough to reveal where you got them from? Also, where woud you place them? Thanks.

[edit: typo]

You don't have to talk "nice" to me--I won't get *offended* if you write

WHERE THE HELL DO YOU GET THEM!!!!!!!!!

Hosfelt Electronics
888-264-6464

Two clamp-on models:

1) TDK ferrite 1-7/16 x 7/8 part # 80-287 (99 cents ea)
2) Steward 1/1/4 x 15/16" 289 Ohm @ 100 MHz part # 80-283 (1.25 ea)

Hantra · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 06:23 pm »

Quote

If what he's saying is FACT, then one can achieve great sonic improvement simply by "squeezing" ICs, powercords, etc. I guess the next major upgrade for my system would be rubberbands or cable ties. That ought to be the best kept secret in audio.

Don't be so quick to laugh. Those of you who think that cable resonance is a joke are discounting many fundamental principals of basic physics.

As a matter of fact, the smartest guy I have ever met in my life actually told me on the phone once to go and get some Ace bandages and wrap my speaker cables tightly.

He was right. That got rid of MANY of the issues I was having with the cable getting confused at complex passages.

So don't discount it, and laugh about it until you give it some basic thought.

B

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 06:42 pm »

Quote from: Hantra

Don't be so quick to laugh. Those of you who think that cable resonance is a joke are discounting many fundamental principals of basic physics.

As a matter of fact, the smartest guy I have ever met in my life actually told me on the phone once to go and get some Ace bandages and wrap my speaker cables tightly.

He was right. That got rid of MANY of the issues I was having with the cable getting confused at complex passages.

So don't discount it, and laugh about it until you give it some basic thought.

B

All you guys have to do is look at Chuck Josephson's methods. Albeit it's unattractive to clamp all those cables, he's right on.

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 06:52 pm »

http://www.hosfelt.com/

Look in "Filters" section.

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 07:48 pm »

Thanks, guys. Interesting. I ordered the exact same ferrites (TDK and Steward) from the same site. I was wondering whether you've found another source for the ones shown in the link provided by tkp. I should be getting the ferrites today. Will check them out.

Anyway, I'm not discounting anything. In fact, I'm game enough to try "squeezing" some cables to see how they sound. And the fact that it can simply be done with virtual no cost makes it a howler.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 08:18 pm »

Quote from: Xi-Trum

Anyway, I'm not discounting anything. In fact, I'm game enough to try "squeezing" some cables to see how they sound. And the fact that it can simply be done with virtual no cost makes it a howler.

You can always call Chuck Josephson...