[slow_down]

Could anyone here give me some advice on buying a "budget" electric guitar and amp for an adult first time player to start with?  Could we get in under $300 either new or used?  Any other tips much appreciated!

[fiveoclockfriday]

There are going to be a lot of options and opinions, but I'll go ahead and throw mine in.

I would go for a used Fender Telecaster or Stratocaster, and I'll give my reasons:

- Much more value in used instruments; the mark up on new instruments is pretty high, and $300 can buy much more guitar used vs. new

- Versatility - Any type of music in the world can be played reasonably well on a Tele or a Strat.

- Resale value - If you don't stick with it, or want to upgrade, a real Fender is much easier to sell vs. a no-name or less valued brand.

- Availability of parts/pieces - Much like a Ford Taurus or something at any mechanics shop, any music store, any tech, any luthier in the world can work on a Fender Tele or Strat. No matter where you are in the world, you can find someone. You can also easily upgrade parts like tuners, pickups, etc. Even the neck (which is bolt on) is much easier to replace versus a Les Paul or something in that style.

- The best advice I can give is to negotiate a free setup when you buy your guitar. A well setup $300 guitar will play and sound better than a poorly setup $1000 guitar. A setup will ensure the intonation is correct, the pickups are at the right height, the action is as buzz free as possible, and overall the guitar will just play well. If you can't negotiate a free setup, make sure you get it done as soon as possible. I've seen it range from $15 - 75$, but most places will throw it in free with a big purchase like that.

Have fun! Playing the guitar is great; it's one of the easiest instruments in the world to pick up the basics, but can easily take a lifetime or more to truly master.

Keep us posted.

-Eric


*EDIT* - I just realized you mentioned you wanted an amp too. D'oh! I would try to squeeze $300 into the guitar/setup, and then just pick up a practice amp when funds allow. A used instrument store will have lots of combo amps for probably between $50 - 150, and if you just need something for learning and getting the basics, just about any modern small amp will serve you well.

[slow_down]

Wow, that's really helpful advice!

What about something like this?  Used Fender Squier Telecaster with amp, strap, stand, tuner, picks etc.. for $250 - sounds almost too good to be true.  Also, a cursory glance seems to indicate that there are a lot of used guitars in Chicago!

http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/msg/488922722.html

[ebag4]

My son just picked up a new Tele Squire last Wed. for $99.00.  It's a nice unit, easy to play and sounds good.  He already had an amp.  So if the balance of the equipment is worth $150. to you it may be a good deal but I bet you could find a decent practice amp for less than that.  BTW, he bought the Tele at a small chain that I believe has stores in the Chicago area, Music go Round.

[slow_down]

My son just picked up a new Tele Squire last Wed. for $99.00.  It's a nice unit, easy to play and sounds good.  He already had an amp.  So if the balance of the equipment is worth $150. to you it may be a good deal but I bet you could find a decent practice amp for less than that.  BTW, he bought the Tele at a small chain that I believe has stores in the Chicago area, Music go Round.

Music Go Round is perfect for me - location within a few miles - and it looks like they have some decent deals.  Thanks.

[slow_down]

What do you guys think of this setup?  It's the cheapest guitar by Squire - so not a true Fender - and likely a pretty flimsy instrument, but comes complete with amp tuner and lots of other accessories, all for $199.  I figure if I actually stick with it then as a reward for my discipline I can step up to a "true" Fender like a standard stratocaster ($400 for just the guitar) or even something nicer.

http://www.electric-guitar-review.com/2005/11/17/looking-for-a-good-beginners-guitar/

[chadh]

I took my son to his guitar lesson just today, and his guitar teacher was playing with a new toy.  It was one of these: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Switch-WildIV-Electric-Guitar?sku=515678

These guitars sell for $99.  The body, neck and headstock are a single piece of molded plastic that is designed to have essentially the same resonance characteristics as a wood bodied guitar.  But, being molded plastic, it will not warp or generate any of the other problems that typically make cheap guitars unplayable.  The guitar teacher wasn't about to let go of his Les Paul in favor of the Switch, but he was clearly impressed that $99 would buy you a completely passable guitar that wouldn't deteriorate on you within a year.  The fact that you can get them in hot pink (he said the hot pink was back-ordered) or emergency-vehicle yellow (the rather eye-catching option he went with) was just pure gravy.

For what it's worth, the guitar he recommended for my son was a Squier.

Chad

[acresm22]

I'll throw out another option. Do some ebay searches for Hamer guitars, Ibanez Blazer, may G&L...these were 80s era guitars that were very well made and can be had now for pretty cheap if you shop around (well, maybe not the G&Ls...just took a quick glance on ebay and saw some pretty spendy models).

The Squires are okay, but you might be rewarded by going for something better on the used market. My nephew just bought a squire, and I tried it out over the weekend...like I said, its certainly fine for a beginner, but you might have more fun finding that perfect 70s or 80s era Ibanez or Hamer.

I have a 1980 Ibanez Blazer, which was a Strat copy...bought it at a pawn shop for $50. I replaced the pickups with active EMG single coils. It has the nicest maple neck of any guitar I've tried...the slight curve of the fretboard, the width of the frets, etc.

Don't mean to confuse you, and if you want to get something fast and just be done with it, the Squire will do just fine. But like I said, the hunt could really be fun ; )

[Photon46]

Maybe one other thing to consider is the size of the hands that are going to be playing the guitar. Nothing discourages a budding player more than an instrument that's hard to play. The 25 1/2" Fender scale isn't as easy to play as the Gibson 24 3/4" scale. Short scales give small hands less reach and string tension. That said, as an owner of two Hamer guitars, I agree they are a primo value on the used market. Godin guitars are also an excellent value in guitars and they offer lots of short scale neck guitars. They aren't as well known as a Fender and won't be as easy to resell if you decide to, but they are a really good beginners instrument. You can pick them up used in your price range. Years ago I started out with a Godin LG and it was a great guitar for the price. If you don't know about it, Gbase.com is a really good place to look for guitars from many reliable dealers on one website.

[jackman]

Could anyone here give me some advice on buying a "budget" electric guitar and amp for an adult first time player to start with?  Could we get in under $300 either new or used?  Any other tips much appreciated!

Looking for an inexpensive setup?  You are in luck!   I have been playing guitar for years (this does not imply that I'm good, because that would not be accurate!) and have owned several very inexpensive guitars (around $100) and some very expensive guitars (over $1000).  In the past, it was almost impossible to find a good, cheap guitar.  Cheap guitars were not fun to play because they usually had bad necks, several defects that affected playability, barb wire fretts that cut your fingers, etc.  The advent of CNC machines, and much better workmanship from places like Indonesia has brought several really nice guitars to the market at under $200!  I know because I own several!  Don't get me wrong, there is a difference between a $1000 guitar and a $100 guitar but the difference is not as great as it was fifteen years ago.  My expensive guitars have lacquer finish (aka nitro) and my cheap guitars usually have a poly finish.  My Squier has an satin finished neck which is really nice because it is slippery and easy to play. 

There have been some good suggestions in this thread but like anything else, the guitar that will work best for you is a very personal choice.  I am a fan of the Fender scale (longer) and the Gibson scale (shorter) and find both guitars to have advantages and disadvantages.  The shorter Gibson scale is a bit easier to play if you have small hands but I know several people with small hands who prefer Fender guitars.  For me, the slale length difference is no big deal, weight of the guitar is more important.  I look for guitars that weigh around 7 lbs because they feel more comfortable.

Here are my suggestions:

Squier '51:  I have four of these!  They are regarded by many as the best inexpensive guitar ever made.  Do a google search for Squier Modders and check out the website where people show off their modded '51's.  Although they are discontinued, there is a running thread on the modders website that tells people where these are available (there are usually several on Ebay).  Also, go to Dolphinstreet.com and check out the guy playing the '51.  The guy on the site has several really nice clips of himself jamming on the '51.  There are also some really good lessons on the site where he shows how to play some popular songs.  The maple neck on this guitar is very comfortable, the fretwork on all of mine is excellent and the guitar is lightweight and fun to play.  You can also get tons of cool after-market parts to modify the guitar and make it even cooler.  Check out some of the pictures on the modders site for inspiration!  Also, like all inexpensive guitars, change the strings immediately!

Guitarfetish.com:  I have purchased tons of stuff from this site and the owner, Jay, is very helpful and very cool.  He just launched several really nice guitars with good components and electronics for around $159 each.  The guitars are semi-hollow and very lightweight and easy to play.  Ten years ago, a guitar of this quality would have costed you at least $400 or more.  The current lineup is Fender scale with bolt on necks but he is launching a new line of Gibson style guitars with set necks for around $200.  They have a great return policy and stand by their products. 

Harmony-central: Go to the tab near the top of the page and look for "Electric Guitar", click on that and then look for the Electric Guitar forum.  There is a running tab where people share coupons for GC and musiciansfriend and talk about hot deals.  There were several great guitar and amp deals last week, but there are usually great deals running all the time.  It's a fun and popular site and I'll try to post a link later today.

Amplifiers:  You can get a decent practice amp for less than $100.  I would suggest spending most of your budtget on the guitar and getting a cheap practice amp that you can upgrade later.  I picked up a new Line 6 Spider with 8" speaker and several built-in effects last week at Guitarcenter for $80.  It sounds pretty good, plays loud and works great as a practice amp. 


Whatever you do, make sure you have your guitar set up properly.  I bought a guitar at Sam Ash and got free setups for a year for something like $15.  They sent it to a local guitar tech and he did a nice job.  Expect to spend about $30-40 for a good setup.  This is money well spent because a well setup guitar will be much more enjoyable and easier to play.  They can usually file any sharp fret ends, lower the action, adjust the truss rod if necessary and adjust the intonation. 

Here are my "Cheap" guitars:

Danelectro DC '59 - A late 90's reissue.  I bought this for about $150 and play it more than any guitar.  It has a comfortable neck, short (gibson style) scale, and stays in tune well.  It also plays pretty loud without amplification so it's fun to play on the couch late at night. This guitar was made in Korea and the workmanship (fretwork, neck, etc.) is excellent.  They recently reissued these out of China but I don't think they are the same quality as the earlier Korean versions. 

Epiphone Les Paul Jr:  A TV Yellow beauty with a single P90 pickup and wrap-around bridge. A very simple guitar that is a rock and roll machine.  I had to return two of these before I found one without defects (first had bent bridge posts, second was wrong yellow and had bad fretts), but third time was the charm!  The jumbo fretts are some of the most comfortable I have ever tried.  The frettwork on this guitar is perfect.  The poly finish (no other option on cheap guitars!) is a bit plastic-feeling but it's durable and looks cool.  This one was made in China (Epi switched from Korea in recent years) but, after the first two duds, I finally got a good one.  This is not a versitile guitar because it pretty much gives you one sound (think Green Day) but it's very cool.  You also need to disconnect the lower coil from the pickup (aka, lindy fralin mod) to make it a true P90 because it is technically a humbucker H90 which sounds dull.  Once you make the mod, it's a hot P90 and sounds very good. 

Squier '51:  I have four of these and like them all.  Was going to sell two and keep two but I can't decide which ones to sell!  They are all very similar because I haven't installed the new pickups I purchased from Guitarfetish.  Also picked up new pickguards, tuners and upgraded bridges.  If you can find one of these in great shape for under $140 or so, it is a good deal.  In a couple years, I suspect you can sell it (if you want) for pretty much what you paid. 

If you get a Squier, try to get one from Indonesia because these are very well made (versus China).  Also, don't get an "Affinity" Squier because they are not as good.  Also, don't get any kind of "guitar-amp package" deal.  The guitars and amps in these deals are usually not good.

Good luck,

J

[slow_down]

Whoa, almost too much to consider here.  I really liked the idea of the starter package I posted earlier, but understand buying a used but higher quality guitar will get me much more value.  Thanks for the recommendations.  I'll definitely look into them.

[drphoto]

I'm a avid guitar player now, in fact I play way more than I listen to my audio rig. (like Jackman said, this doesn't imply I'm any good  )

I agree wholeheartedly with the posters who said get a good quality, name brand used instrument. You'll like it better and you will always be able to get your money back if you keep it nice.

I have two cheap guitars and regret them both. As far as Fender, if you want to go cheap, I'd go Mexican, rather than Squire. The MIM Strats from 2006 onward are quite nice. Japanese versions are great, but they're in demand now and get bid up pretty quickly. I saw a really beat up one go for $400 lately on ebay. A lot of people swear that the Epiphone Elitist series, which are Japanese, are actually better quality than the American made Gibsons. (but Gibson, of course is better than the standard Epi's)

Be sure to go and try different types to see if you prefer long or short scale necks.

 Jackman is also correct to point out that there are decent products coming out of Asia these days. A friend of mine who's a professional player, and one of the best out there, uses Samicks and Schecters (which I think are made by Samick)

Tube amps rule for electric guitar, especially is you want to use distortion. That being said, I'm quite happy w/ my little Roland Cube 30 modeling amp. The clean channel, based on the legendary Roland Jazz Chorus, sounds great. The distorted channel(s), are tolerable, but lack compared to an overdriven tube. My buddy mentioned before, has a Fender CyberDeluxe (discontinued) for practice and it's really nice, but a lot more spendy than the Roland. He uses a Fender Twin for gigs, but that's overkill for a beginner.

There's a bunch of fairly inexpensive tube amps coming out of China these days, but there are a lot of reliabilty issues.

BTW: on the debate of starting acoustic vs. electric......I say learning to play is hard enough, so I think starting electric is the way to go. Once you learn where to put your fingers and pick/strum, then you might want to try acoustic.

[slow_down]

OK, I'm nixing the Squier package and will aim for a higher quality used Fender or the like.

Any suggestions on self-instruction?  Books?  Video?  I'm open to either.

[jackman]

OK, I'm nixing the Squier package and will aim for a higher quality used Fender or the like.

Any suggestions on self-instruction?  Books?  Video?  I'm open to either.

I agree with Doc Photo (hey!), but my recommendations were based on your budget.  For $300, you will not be able to get a good American made Fender or Gibson guitar, let alone an amp.  You are limited to inexpensive guitars and amps which means foreign.  Some older MIM Fenders are a mixed bag and they are still at the high end of your budget.  The reason I recommended the Squier '51 is because it has a nice neck, good fretts and is easy to play.  Plus, it's pretty easy to get one for around $140.  For the money, I don't know of a better playing guitar.  Plus, the fretts are medium jumbo which I prefer over the small fretts found on many older guitars.  Also, the neck radius on the Squier is 9.5 inches so it's relatively flat and easy to play.  My older Japanese Strat had a "vintage" radius and vintage fretts.  A 7.25 radius is more curved and not good if you like to bend strings (who doesn't!). 

If you are willing to go a bit above your budget and are looking for an American made guitar, I would suggest a Gibson Melody Maker from musicians friend.  They have some blem (ished) models for about $300 delivered.  That is a cool axe because it's lightweight and easy to play.  I have enough guitars but I believe there will be a Melody Maker in my future!  Also, it is an easy guitar to sell and often sells for more than it costs on eBay (don't these people do any research!?).  They come in black (blech!), aged white (kind've like Billie Joe's main axe) and sunburst (my fav).  The two pickup model is on sale for $305.  If you like Gibby's, this is a nice lightweight guitar that is very easy to play and a great beginner guitar that looks and sounds cool.

Guitar Center was blowing out Highway 1 Strats a couple weeks ago for $383.  Not all locations but some.  This is an amazing deal on an american made guitar that is very good quality.  It's a guitar that you can own for several years and sell for $500 three years from now.  I missed out on this deal unfortunately. 

Tube amps are great but the ones in your pricerange are limited.  I have an Epiphone Valve Jr. and it's all tube but I don't recommend it to a beginner because it has no built-in effects and needs to be modded to sound great.  Doc's Cube is a very nice amp and I like the Vox valvetronix line of amps but they are out of your budget at the moment.  The little Spider Line 6 amp I picked up at GC for $80 would work for you very nicely. 

J

[slow_down]

jackman, by Squier package I meant the $199 package that includes the guitar, amp, tuner, etc. - not necessarily other guitars made by Squier.  I'm definitely gonna look into the '51 among others.

Thanks for all the input!  It's a lot to digest but very helpful.  I suppose at some point I need to get myself into a guitar shop and see what works best with my fingers, eh?

[drphoto]

This may sound crazy, but I found lessons, when I first started to be a waste of time for me and the instructor. I'm mean if you sit there and and can't do anything, why bother?  So by using books, and online tabs and such, I just kept working on those chord shapes, etc until I could make reasonable sounds. One problem w/ this is I tended to just noodle around and not really learn songs, which leads to timing/rhythm issues. My buddy, the hotshot player told me I needed to play along w/ recordings. But the problem w/ that, is in the beginning, most recordings are way too fast. I bought some software for $50 that allows one to slow down the music, but maintain pitch. Since I started using this, my playing has gotten dramatically better.

I also started out more like a teenager would....that is by playing power and barre chords , rather than the more traditional approach of learning open chords and playing folkie type songs. Until recently, I could play a much better version of "Blvd of Broken Dreams" than "House of the Rising Sun" 

I do benefit from getting the equivilent of lessons by playing w/ my pro musician friends. I might go and start actual lessons at some point in the future.

Regarding neck shape, curved radius necks maybe easier for rhythm playing, where as flatter necks for lead. But, that just personl preference.

I realize that recommending say, Fender over Squire drives up the price, but my point was, if you get something good, you'll never loose money on it. And, once again Jman is correct. Pre 2006 MIM Fenders are a dicey issue. I would never buy one without have a pro check it out first.

Hey Jman....I recently got an Epi Valve Std. (I thought I was bidding on the Blues 30) I like it ok, but the bass tone control was designed incorrectly or has the wrong value components, because its either off or on. Is this part of the modification you were refering to?

[jackman]

This may sound crazy, but I found lessons, when I first started to be a waste of time for me and the instructor. I'm mean if you sit there and and can't do anything, why bother?  So by using books, and online tabs and such, I just kept working on those chord shapes, etc until I could make reasonable sounds. One problem w/ this is I tended to just noodle around and not really learn songs, which leads to timing/rhythm issues. My buddy, the hotshot player told me I needed to play along w/ recordings. But the problem w/ that, is in the beginning, most recordings are way too fast. I bought some software for $50 that allows one to slow down the music, but maintain pitch. Since I started using this, my playing has gotten dramatically better.

I also started out more like a teenager would....that is by playing power and barre chords , rather than the more traditional approach of learning open chords and playing folkie type songs. Until recently, I could play a much better version of "Blvd of Broken Dreams" than "House of the Rising Sun" 

I do benefit from getting the equivilent of lessons by playing w/ my pro musician friends. I might go and start actual lessons at some point in the future.

Regarding neck shape, curved radius necks maybe easier for rhythm playing, where as flatter necks for lead. But, that just personl preference.

I realize that recommending say, Fender over Squire drives up the price, but my point was, if you get something good, you'll never loose money on it. And, once again Jman is correct. Pre 2006 MIM Fenders are a dicey issue. I would never buy one without have a pro check it out first.

Hey Jman....I recently got an Epi Valve Std. (I thought I was bidding on the Blues 30) I like it ok, but the bass tone control was designed incorrectly or has the wrong value components, because its either off or on. Is this part of the modification you were refering to?

Hey Doc,

You are right about neck radius, it's easier to play bar chords on a "vintage" radius neck.  I just hate those little skinny fretts that most vintage guitars seem to have.  I like the fat fretts all of my guitars have.  Regarding amps, no, I have a Valve Jr., which is a bare bones 5 watt class A amp.  You can do a google search for Epiphone Valve Jr. Modifications or mods and see lots of stuff available.  There is a guy who sells kits on ebay for mods.  They are very easy to do on this amp.  Do a search for "Bitmo" mods for Valve Jr.  I bought the kit from the tube store (i think it's thetubestore.com).  The kit is really inexpensive but it transforms the amp.  It's a fun little amp that you can buy for just over a hundred bucks.  Do a search on youtube and you will find several guys playing these amps. 

I agree regarding lessons.  I have taken lessons through the years and it was basically an excuse to find someone to play with.  There are lots of good guitar lesson software packages available.  Also, there are some good free tutorials that teach licks and songs.  Dolphinstreet.com has lots of cool songs from SRV, AC/DC, etc.  I enjoy that site quite a bit. 

I just picked up a really nice guitar at Guitarcenter last week.  It's a Gibson Les Paul DC Faded in TV Yellow with P90's.  This guitar is really nice because it is ultra lightweight and has cool P90 sound.   I am a sucker for yellow guitars!

J

Here is the link to a discussion about Xavier guitars from Guitarfetish.  These are really cool looking and a bargain if you are looking for a guitar under $200.  The one with Dream 180 pickups looks really cool and it's only $159.  I've never seen one in person but I've bought other things from guitarfetish and everything is good for the money.  I have several pickups that are yet to be installed in my cheap guitars. 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1754399&page=28

[slow_down]

What about this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/FENDER-SQUIER-51-UNUSED-BLACK-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ200178947310QQihZ010QQcategoryZ33039QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It's an unused Squier '51 for $129 shipped.  Does this look legit?

[drphoto]

Hey Slow-down.....sorry if I got your thread a bit off topic. The gist of it is just get something and start playing. The first time you can play a reasonable version of your favorite song (or hell, even a few bars ) it will blow your mind. I've had a lot of hobbies, and this is by far the most fun.

 It is hard and it is frustrating. I've wanted to just chuck it all many times. I've been playing for 3.5 years and I still suck, but I slowly get better.

The learning curve is not linear. You'll go for weeks and see no progress, then all of the sudden....bang....you'll be able to do something you'd not done before, and wonder why you couldn't.

The equipment really doesn't matter. My pro player friend can pick up my crappy Strat copy and make it sing. My girlfriend bought a gorgeous Gibson Les Paul Studio, and her playing makes my ears bleed, but she could sell it for more than she paid.

Let us know what you do. We should have an all AC jam session someday!

[lonewolfny42]

slow_down....

Here's a good starter set on Craigs List-Chicago......

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/msg/493050706.html

jackman has mentioned the Gibson Melody Maker(reissued)...it would be a step up...good guitar to start out with....

http://www.gibson.com/Files/AllAccess/2007/Flash/MelodyMaker/video.swf

I still remember my first "real" electric....a '65 Fender Mustang....red.
I should of kept it...was fun to play.

Here's a '66 Mustang