[jimdgoulding]

Jimdgoulding:

I did mean the door that separated them. He did what he promised being the man that he is. He couldn't do otherwise.  But overwhelmed he was by the evil he had witnessed so far. To come so close to a face to face with such supreme evil was, I believe, his tipping point. Seeing that unhinged window lock, he knew he had just been spared something horrible.
Yes, rib stickin good enough to see again.

nonoise

Oh, that is good!  The bad guy heard him entering and unlatched the window himself so TLJ would think, or could think, he had gone.  IT WAS THAT COIN TOSS THING, HUH.  I just didn't fill in the blanks.  I do love the Coen Bros.  They challenge their audience.

[dorokusai]

ooheadsoo - I really think I should from what I have heard....consider it done and on the short list

Mark

[ooheadsoo]

ooheadsoo - I really think I should from what I have heard....consider it done and on the short list

Mark

I saw it again with some friends.  Unfortunately, I sat farther away this time, instead of closer.  I really would have preferred to sit closer and really admire the detail in the picture.  The movie holds up very well, except I don't understand how that final hotel room confrontation worked out.  How did he get out the window and close it again silently and while hauling the case?  I don't think he could fit behind the door with that case in hand, and besides, I think the light from outside shining into the room would change and give his swinging the door away.  TLJ had to have waited until he couldn't see the reflection any more before entering.

[nonoise]

Looks like I have to see this movie again.
I just came from the film's official site that directed me to a link re: the ending.
Seems that Bardem's character was still in the room, even as TLJ sat on the bed
and noticed the grate from the heater vent lying on the floor along with the screws
and a dime (like the one Bardem used to take off another grate, earlier). He just
didn't turn the lights on and so, got out alive. Also, it turns out the window was latched,
not as I previously remembered.
This movie is going to spawn a bunch of look-alikes, hopefully half as well done and none
with that MTV style, video look that has gotten so popular these days. The Coens show
that old school, traditional style shooting and editing can't be beat. The most daring thing,
besides the ending, is a lack of a soundtrack.

nonoise

[ooheadsoo]

Is that window latched?  I couldn't make out what they were trying to show, either time, being unfamiliar with that type of window latch.  It was just a big pile of shiny brass to my uninformed eyes.

Where was the air tank, if he was behind the door?  Don't tell me he blew the lock out, put the air tank away, and then went into the room, and was holding the case behind the door (which doesn't look like it has enough space for him, much less him holding the case.)  Or worse, he blew the lock out and was behind the door with air tank AND case of money.  Plus, when TLJ pushes the door open, it swings all the way out and then sticks.  Now, I watched both times, and it doesn't seem like someone could fit behind the door.  If it hit Chigurh, it would bounce off the toes of his shoes or gut or chin - unless it wedged his toes underneath the door.  Or maybe Chigurh catches the door handle with his hand, but TLJ didn't notice that someone was behind the door catching the door so that it wouldn't bounce or hit the wall.  Plus, upon closer examination the second time, I'm even more convinced that both parties were looking at each others' reflection in the lock shaft, so TLJ KNEW that the guy was right there behind the door.  And then, if the window is latched and TLJ sees this, why the hell would he sigh and then sit down on the bed? 

[nonoise]

From what I remember, when they showed Chigurh, he was up against something, mostly in the dark and lit up (for audience sake) by only a swath of light. He seemed crammed in somewhere, but definitely NOT behind that door. You're right about that. And they did show movement through the blown out door lock's brassy, lit up surface. But I believe TLJ only went as far as the bathroom, checked the window  (I really couldn't tell either, which way the lock was) and then sat down on the bed and looked at the floor. That would leave a closet or two to lay in wait from. Chigurh had that same, evil, gleeful look as the one he had when he dispatched that deputy in the beginning of the movie. He really enjoyed his work.
Maybe TLJ thought he had worked himself up, thinking the worst, and just relaxed, thinking he had just missed the guy. Who knows?
Think I'll see it again, tonight.
By the way, did the audience in your theater crack up as much as mine when the store owner asked Josh Brolin's character "How are those Larry's holdin' up?"

nonoise

nonoise

[jimdgoulding]

Just so happens I own a pair of Larry's so I could relate and I believe I may have laughed now that you mention it.  My point about the bad guy's code or "thing" was moot if the window was locked.  It would have been a more interesting scene with more potential meaning if it were unlocked, so the Coen Brothers owe us one.  Yeah, bad guy would have had a hard time pulling his tank (BTW, what that device in the book?) and the money case behind a door.  But, if the window were unlocked, then dude could have pitched the case outside beforehand making the space behind the (whichever) door less impossibly crowded.  Everything is made better by the window being unlatched.  Nonoise, you had me going.

[ooheadsoo]

I was pretty sure that it showed the reflection in the lock barrel from BOTH sides of the doors, implying that Chigurh was behind the door looking out at TLJ's reflection.  Something like showing him looking down, and then cutting to the lock barrel from the inside of the motel room.

[Folsom]

All of you are way too old and confused.

I do not think the money case was even in the room. He checked behind the vent thing on the assumption that he might of put it in there. However as we know from the hotel before he stopped doing that. The killer was being optimistic. Do you guys REALLY think that the Mexican guys would of left the motel without the money?

When it showed the killer he had his tank with him, it was down at his side, pulled in towards his leg. The device end was in his other hand held up to his shoulder. There was no money bag thing, and if there was it was sitting somewhere in the bedroom and he grabbed it before leaving.

When the door opened it did not make the right sound as it stopped opening, it hit the killer guy. Tommy Lee Jones noticed that the window was locked, it has a like crescent moon shape that turns around behind a catch. This made Tommy Lee Jones realize the guy had just not killed him (he put his gun away) as he would of left the door open when he left (the guy has no regard for anything, that is how Tommy Lee Jones knew he would be willing to go back to a crime scene, like he had done before). I think this has a lot to do with his dream, and realizing that "this is no country for old men" if you remember the talk with the guy in the wheel chair, his dad's deputy I guess. The whole point being he realized or thought so that he was out classed and not fit, because the killer could of done him in, he fucked up bad.

Interesting points... no soundtrack, that is amazing how well it fit together without one. I think this might be a statement against all the soundtracks that have almost as much promotion as movies do, and a "haha we are better at making films than you, we can even end one with the bad guy getting away". However what was interesting about the bad guy was the principles, which however went slightly askew when he killed the woman probably out of anger for not making a call. I am not sure what he could of done when she refused and it forced him to be immoral in his own eyes (I do realize he got shot but that was not fate or accident). Then there is the thought that perhaps he got hit by the other car because he went against his own morality, a karma situation. What is ever more interesting is showing the solitude and uneasy point of life the killer had regardless of all the power and money, he has to walk away from anything that happens even if a bone is sticking out of him. This in movies is only shown usually when a good guy gets hurt, and they burn their flesh to seal their wound or something stupid. Well it did it on the account of showing him dealing with the shot as well I suppose, but not in a profound way of even when you just got away with it all you are out of place.

I think this movie is not existential at all really. It unromanticizes a lot of ideas that people have, and are general in movies. It points out things are always the same by always changing, nothing is new, and you get old, or rather you change as well. There really is no questioning of life or anything like that in this. It shows you, not asks you anything. It is clear Tommy Lee Jones does not entirely know what to do, he is not asking what to do after he retires, which is the real situation, that people do not know what to do with themselves, not leaving an open idea for your imagination, even though he is assertive and certain on all his actions as a sheriff. The movie is unique based on there are no open doors once the movie has ended, every thing is an ultimate and you know the answer. However, however they put it together so it leaves you pleased with the film with no mystery left, and no soundtrack at any point.

You might beg the question, what about the accountant, did he kill him? We already know he died if he mumbled and did not say no. However the man is of principles so if he said he did not see him, then he got to live. However it is completely unimportant that we know this, the point being there is no mystery, we know what happened either way.

The no mystery is unique even more so because in movies they either give you a happy bubbling ending where you have to guess the details, or they tell you with white letting what happened, but only more so because Coen brothers usually do make either somewhat existential films or ones based on metaphors. Seriously, like The Hudsucker Proxy where father death fights father time is an example of a metaphorical movie, but this one did not even go as far as Barton Fink where John Goodman's hell was the hotel and therefor he was in control of it and what ever happened in it, hence you make your own hell.

[Folsom]

I was pretty sure that it showed the reflection in the lock barrel from BOTH sides of the doors, implying that Chigurh was behind the door looking out at TLJ's reflection.  Something like showing him looking down, and then cutting to the lock barrel from the inside of the motel room.

Yes it showed him look down and see Tommy Lee Jones, it also showed him standing in a corner for a split second too.

[ooheadsoo]

There is substantial scoring in the movie, but you may not have noticed it much.  It was used sparingly.

How does TLJ not know there is someone behind the door?  That's one of those places you HAVE to check.

[Folsom]

The whole point is he did not, so he knew it was time to retire.

[jimdgoulding]

Well, I figured I would probably be seeing this movie again.  I thought bad guy had gotten the money and was surprised by the sheriff.  Those were hundred dollar bills he was handing the kids at the scene of the accident.  Don’t remember anything about the conversation with the old deputy that was particularly revealing to the present other than just the acceptance of things as they are.  I called the Jones character the proverbial man in the middle between protagonist/antagonist.  Pretty classic theater if you think about it that way.  I suppose he was everyman trying to walk the high moral ground and wanting some reason for his existence.  I do like your explanation of the hotel room confrontation, but I'm not as sure about your conclusion.  Bone or no bone, bad guy had to get to steppin after the accident, that ain't no thing.  I’m down for another trip to the cinema.  And I’ll probably buy the DVD to put along side Miller’s Crossing and Blood Simple.  I loaned Raising Arizona to my niece and she took it off to college.  She is majoring in film making.  "It's been emotional" 

[Folsom]

Well there are two ultimates we can decide on that we know anyways. If he did have the money and hence the hundred dollar bill, and the time elapsed between him and the wife confrontation would be that he got it from the Mexicans if he did not already have it.

I would like to watch again to see if the case could be seen in the room. I still find it hard to believe the Mexicans would leave without it. He was going to hand it off to his wife that day. Hmmm I do think there is a possibility the case was on the table thing next to the door, but it was such a quick flash I am not sure.

The point with the old deputy was the story about how the people kept trying to get a shotgun and were out done in the situation, just like how Tommy Lee Jones felt, and then on top of that the mayhem that it was at the time was considered beyond the measure of the people's exception, just like the situation in the movie was for the people in real time (of the movie). When Tommy Lee Jones talked about his dreams well, you might want to watch again and listen closer. The way he talks about his dreams show his subconscious reflecting everything that happened a lot.

You should watch the other Coen brother movies, Blood Simple and Miller's Crossing are two of the weaker ones if you ask me.

[jimdgoulding]

I've seen all but two.  Maybe you should see Blood Simple, again.  I don't know of another movie where the characters in the end didn't have a clue as to what they had experienced.  We did, the audience, but they didn't.  I thought that was highly original.  There was music in No Country, but, unlike Fargo, for example, not a major thing.  That had to have been intentional.

[Folsom]

I guess I never noticed it. It is still a powerful statement what could be done with so very little. The last movie I watched where they set up mood with something so small was Once Upon A Time In The West, which is super slow to set the mood the entire time.

[jimdgoulding]

It is still a powerful statement what could be done with so very little.

Genius, if you ask me.  I think it would be fun if the three guys takin up all the space here could sit around and watch a couple of these together.  Then listen to some tunes, of course.  Cheers.

[Folsom]

Yeah maybe if my Squeezebox worked, ha!

[nonoise]

Okay now.
Saw it again, last night.
Chigurh was behind the door. Knowing where Moss had hid the satchel before, he had taken the screen off and there was just enough room in there for the satchel. That's why TLJ looked at it the way he did: it wasn't like that at the original crime scene. Chigurh had time to put it anywhere, hearing TLJ approach in his car in that empty parking lot. Only a cop would come up that slow on a crime scene and walk past the tape. It also accounts for the movement TLJ saw through the broken doorknob. I don't think the Mexicans got it 'cause when TLJ came upon the motel, he heard the gunplay and saw the truck speed out of the lot with two guys scrambling in, empty-handed. Moss was dead at the door and the wounded, surviving bad guy was barely crawling away with a load of buckshot in his guts. And, the window was latched.
At the building where Chigurh wasted the guy who hired Wells, he simply came up the stairwell, blowing out doorlocks along the way. When he came in on the final floor, you can see the tank in the background
before the door closes. And yes, I believe he did waste the accountant. When asked if you're going to kill me, he answered 'That all depends. Do you see me?', with that sick smile of his. No need to show it, just like the death of Moss's wife.
Nothing existential here. No metaphors. Just people in over their collective heads with someone the likes of Chigurh. The fact that the good guys didn't win and Chigurh just keeps walking away is a testimony to his reality. 'No need to involve anyone else. I'm the perfect tool' he said to the accountant.

nonoise

[ooheadsoo]

It still has a lot of existentialism - Chigurh is quite the superman.  As good an ubermensch as I can think of in a real world setting.