Dedicated Room planning

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 2659 times.

audiophyllic

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 8
Dedicated Room planning
« on: 15 Nov 2007, 01:13 am »
Hi,  total newbie here but I have been lurking and following the evolution/birth of the LS6/9 speakers.

I am building a dedicated hometheater room which will also function as my two channel setup.  It will be built entirely sound isolated and treated.  My interest is in using the LS9s as mains with LS6s for sides and rears.  For the center I would like an identical speaker but am unsure with the LS9 as to what would be best.

I have been leaning towards building the speakers myself since the cost of all 7 as a finished product will be high and also they will all be hidden.  However after seeing Daygloworange's pics I am very tempted to just pay for his expertise.

The room is large at approx 15'6" by 32' by 10' though that dimension could grow or shrink a tad based on soundproofing and of course the decor.  Any advice while I am in the planning stage would be appreciated.
The size of these speakers requires special planning and obviously space.

S Clark

  • Guest
Re: Dedicated Room planning
« Reply #1 on: 15 Nov 2007, 02:14 am »


I have been leaning towards building the speakers myself since the cost of all 7 as a finished product will be high and also they will all be hidden. 

The room is large at approx 15'6" by 32' by 10'


I don't quite see how you are going to "hide" four 80" towers  :scratch: and give them the space they need away from the walls.  You might consider a front pair of 9's or 6's and smaller surrounds.  You may find that will exceed any expectations that you may have had for your system.  The AV/0's or AV/1RS may actually be a better solution, leave some cash for electronics upgrades,  and provide a truly SOTA system  I suspect that Danny will come along soon with an opinion.

audiophyllic

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: Dedicated Room planning
« Reply #2 on: 15 Nov 2007, 02:28 am »
The fronts will be behind an AT false front wall/screen with appropriate offset from sides and wall behind them.  The sides and rears would be built into false columns or some such depending on room design.  The rear ports on all the 6's would have to be sealed/filled which has been mentioned as a poss. on other posts.

I was even considering building some bass arrays for the room and the new IB sub system being developed has some appeal though I had been looking into a double bass array where a matching bass array is built in the front and rear of the room and the rear is time delayed to fire off a cancelling wave opposite the front. 

Hank

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1206
    • http://www.geocities.com/hankbond1/index
Re: Dedicated Room planning
« Reply #3 on: 15 Nov 2007, 03:10 am »
If you do need to hide part of your high-end speaker system, consider an IB installation in your attic with the opening into your ceiling.  Many guys who have done IB that way say it's the best sub implementation.

klh

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 925
Re: Dedicated Room planning
« Reply #4 on: 15 Nov 2007, 07:06 am »
I can attest to IB's sounding wonderful as I have two high excursion 18" drivers in my ceiling. However, if you can swing it, I'd do an IB double bass array... If you do that you'll be in heaven aa.

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 10668
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Re: Dedicated Room planning
« Reply #5 on: 15 Nov 2007, 10:26 am »
Welcome audiophyllic,

When we were preparing to build a new home 3 or 4 years back I innocently asked about including a HT.  The answers I got back were in the $50k ballpark and all looked like variations of small, but lavish theater.  That blew my budget as HT is a low priority for me.  But I did build a nice dedicated audio man cave for very cheap:

First is getting the room proportions right.  Like most, I was limited by an 8 foot finished ceiling height, so I followed the Cardias ratios and ended up with a 13 ft x 21 ft room to minimize standing waves.  (I also use the Cardias speaker/listening location recommendations.)  Your left over space could be used for storage/infinite baffle volume, built-in cabinetry, bass traps, etc.  Your current 10 x 15 x 31 dimensions should be "adjusted" IMO.

Second was physical isolation.  Interior partitions were built as staggered stud walls with batt insulation.  If you really want to crank bass you could even go up to insulated 2x6 double walls with the studs at a varied spacing of 8 - 16 inches.  I used an insulated fiberglass exterior door and insulated flexible ductwork to the room.  My mistake was the ceiling (recessed can light fixtures and the drywall attached directly to the floor structure).  The builder got snotty and would have voided any warrantee on the entire drywall job on the house to "float" the audio room drywall ceiling as I'd specified (and is common for such rooms).  An acoustical drop ceiling with batt insulation above would probably have worked nearly as well, but we were running out of money.  My walls/door have worked extremely well (the family can really crank the HT just a few feet away (no door between) and I can't hear a thing with music playing).  But I hear the washing machine, vacuum, and footsteps above.  In any case, don't penetrate walls or ceiling. 

Finally is electrical isolation.  Use dedicated 12 gauge/20 amp circuits for the equipment (wired into to top of the panel if possible).  I had these dedicated circuits run to their own common ground.  My one "splurge" was to buy cryo'd hospital grade receptacles and to have one 20A circuit used per each of the three receptacles.  (I'm a "Keep It Simple Stupid" kind of guy, so the audio system is purist, simple, and small.)

All these extras cost me about $200 (as the builder insulated interior walls anyway and the door was cheaper than the solid cherry doors in the rest of the house) plus the loss of extra storage space (that wifey would have spent money to eventually fill).  The isolation is so complete that at first is was a bit spooky.  Now I can listen 24/7, at lower spls, and we keep better domestic peace.  Easily the best money spent on the house and a great example of the value of planning ahead.  Other than the ceiling, the only other worthwhile upgrades would be double 5/8 inch drywall (especially for loud HT bass).

Since then I've added six 2x4 high density fiberglass absorption panels at front corners, front wall first reflection points, and side wall first reflection points.  I run single driver speakers and will be playing with a Behringer DEQ2496 I recently picked up to replace the baffle step/zobel circuit to allow for a direct monoblock to driver connection and to tweak the room/speaker response.

From what I understand the ceiling height should be close to the height of the tall line array speakers.  This may cut down further the size of the room.

bpape

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 4465
  • I am serious and don't call my Shirley
    • Sensible Sound Solutions
Re: Dedicated Room planning
« Reply #6 on: 15 Nov 2007, 12:36 pm »
That'll be a sweet system.

If you're wanting the best match, think about a 3rd 9 for the center channel and use an AT screen.

Bryan

audiophyllic

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: Dedicated Room planning
« Reply #7 on: 15 Nov 2007, 02:01 pm »
Thanks for all the responses guys.

First the room is in the basement so the IB into an attic won't work.  I do have a mechanical room(12x20) at one end that could be used for this but then it would need to be sound isolated as well or the bass would shake the house to pieces upstairs.  Flanking will be my biggest issue in the basement once the initial room is built.

For construction I'm going to have to demo the entire room since its already finished.  I want double layer drywall with GG and RSIC for the ceiling.  I'll also probably stagger stud the side walls.

Bpape, I live in the Atl area and will be hopefully using Dennis Erskine for design input but your services have helped a lot of people treat their rooms effectively and I may need your help as well.  I love the idea of using the LS9s accross the front.  My goal is to keep at least the front two rows in the near field of the speakers.  A full size center is the ONLY choice for me.  I have been running full size(small towers) identical speakers in 5.1 since the mid 90's and don't want to go back.

I'm still playing around with the double bass array idea...it will be difficult to implement with the riser and the layout but it is still very interesting.  I'm afraid that the seating on the riser will create too much interference and it will all just end up "muddy".  It would be awesome if it could work though.

The room size isn't anywhere near ideal as far as geometry goes but with proper treatment will still work well.  I can tweak it as necessary...thus I am still just planning.  This project will take a while.

audiophyllic

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: Dedicated Room planning
« Reply #8 on: 15 Nov 2007, 02:08 pm »
Another question...for the center channel I would want an additional LS9.  Or should I consider an LS9 derived center with two rows of tweeters on the outside and the drivers in the center?  Overkill or just silly?

Brucemck

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 293
Re: Dedicated Room planning
« Reply #9 on: 15 Nov 2007, 02:26 pm »

Spend some time and moneywith Dennis Erskine or Rives Audio.  Both have provided me outstanding advice in the past.  You'll save far more than you spend by simply avoiding "mistakes," and, the finished product will be far better.

Matching arrays across the front provide an amazing experience.

IMO there's no reason to use arrays for the surrounds.  (When I turn off my front arrays and listen only to the surrounds that's an obvious conclusion.)  A set of Danny's AV1-RS (which I use), or AV-O's, or even O-3s would all be more than ample.

Spend the extra cash on the upstream electronics and room treatment.

Danny Richie

Re: Dedicated Room planning
« Reply #10 on: 15 Nov 2007, 02:43 pm »
Wow, it sounds like an ambitious project.

LS-6's for sides and rears, wow! That may be a bit overkill but sometimes an overkill system is part of the fun. My concern though with LS-6's as side and rear speakers is how far away you are from them.

If using a direct radiating speakers you need to be just as far away (if not farther) from the sides and rears as you are from the front speakers. Typically this is not possible.

These guys are right. A/V-1RS, A/V-O, or O-3 design might work better in your application. These speakers provide a large non-localized sound field that gets you away from the feeling of setting in front of a speaker aimed at your head.

If the speakers need to be placed on or near a wall the A/V-1RS is the way to go. This speaker takes into account the wall and ceiling reflections as part of the on axis response.

The A/V-O and O-3 are killer great sounding speakers but need to be out away from walls and boundaries.

If you have room to utilize an IB sub design then my new 16 ohm servo controlled subs are ideal for it. They are designed for a free air application and will play really low in the IB application. They'll be out in January.

Quote
Another question...for the center channel I would want an additional LS9.  Or should I consider an LS9 derived center with two rows of tweeters on the outside and the drivers in the center?  Overkill or just silly?


Using an LS-9 (vertically) as a center and behind an acoustically transparent screen will work great. Adding two rows of tweeters does not work. This will just cause one to cancel out the other and chop up the response. The LS-9 has the same output well off axis to the left or right regardless of which side the tweeters are on.

audiophyllic

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: Dedicated Room planning
« Reply #11 on: 15 Nov 2007, 03:20 pm »
Thanks again for the responses.  Yes, I will definitely pay for a professional review of the room for both design and accoustics.  Dennis E. will help me get the WAF that will bring this project home. 

Danny, I kind of figured the center channel idea was fantasy run amok. :oops:  This project gets the juices flowing.

I am a little concerned about the surround recommendations.  I prefer to match voicing all the way around(I always have) and can't see that working without the 6s.  My distance to the rears would be fine but you are very right in that my distance to the sides would be a concern.

I'll be paying close attention to the sub thread progression as well.  I'm trying not to get in a hurry on this.  Oh and Danny, I may need some of your expertise to pull off the double bass array or at least two bass arrays for the front of the room.