[kyrill]

 tubes

is there a trustworthy address on the net where you can send
your tubes ( or wires or components) that will cryo it for you as a
paid service?

but speaking of cryo'd  tubes..
isn't that against cryo'd effects?
If you heat a cryo'd metal to reddish would you not undo the cryo'd effects?
to cryo an IC or anything else that will stay to its unfrozen temperature, i can imagine the cryo effect, but heated and then cooled down and then repeat this process over and over??

[Imperial]

The answer to this will most likely put this thread into "the lab" I guess. (We'll see if DU see this and agree) 
Zip zip...
Cryogenics - When discussing heat treatment, cryogenic treatment must also be included. One may wonder why, since heat treatment is done with extremely high temperatures, and cryogenic treatment is done with extremely low temperatures reaching minus 300° F. Because of this, we contacted Bob Reed, Motorsports Division Manager for the past 13 years at 300 Below, Inc. in Decatur, IL. "Cryogenic treatment does not take the place of heat treatment, rather, it completes what the heat treater started," explains Reed.

"When heat treating, the temperature is increased to the proper 'high' temperature for the type of metal being treated. At the correct time, the parts being heat-treated are put in 'the quench,' at which time the temperature begins to decrease. It is during the quench that the improvement actually takes place. Parts become cooler and cooler, and better and better. The heat tr eater considers the treatment completed when the temperature of the parts reach room temperature.

Heat treatment is great, but there is nothing magical about room temperature, says Reed. It is at this time that the heat treated parts can be cryogenically treated, because when cryogenic treatment is properly performed, cryogenic treatment begins at room temperature, and through computer-control drops at the rate of one degree per minute until the temperature reaches 300° F. Small drill bits, sewing machine needles and guitar strings can be cryogenically treated at the same time as big engine blocks, gears, pumps, etc., but the treatment time must be based on the biggest, thickest cross-section. In other words, cryogenic treatment is not a surface treatment. The entire thickness is treated and receives the benefit which is normally improved performance, reduced wear and breakage, longer between rebuilds or replacement, reduced costs, and (hopefully) a more successful motorsports season.

Cryo processing also is used to stabilize aluminum and other non-ferrous metals. Cryogenic tempering conditions the aluminum so that large temperature variations can be tolerated with minimal distortion.
(And that was the punch line here folks!!!)
Zip zip...
And a note from me...
Say you while assembling the tube also cryo it just after pulling it to -8 Torr ...
That would get you a best possible tube... eh? 

So ... did that answer your question?

And we could go on!
No, just reddish won't destroy the cryo treatment, as cryo is not so special after all, just a finnished heat treatment...
But now you guys should be in no doubt that cryo do work!!!

Also, what parts of the tube that actually emit or recieve electrons is also a part in determining how succesfull a cryo treatment will be.

Of course, if the tube starts to melt... Actually, you know that certain elements of a tube have coatings, some use graphite elements, some are gasfilled and so on. A generic answer to your question is difficult I guess you could say..

But the general rule is this:
If the metal undergoes a phase change in the metal itself every time it heats up, then the cryo treatment is destroyed, otherwise not.



Imperial

[kyrill]

thx alot

this is the answer i was looking for: "No, just reddish won't destroy the cryo treatment, as cryo is not so special after all, just a finnished heat treatmen t"

with reddish i mean the typical glow you see when tubes are operating.

that will happily not be a "phase " change

as a side note

if you cryo a wire with teflon as an insulation or even a whole pcb with components,  maybe even ( if you dare) caps
would that harm some components? not to cryo for their specific benefit ( caps for instance) but for anything metal on he pcb  and in components

[Imperial]

If the components don't change shape so much during cool down that they physically are dislocated or shrink out of shape or something, this should not be a problem.

However, some organic compounds do not like to be frozen... Basically if there is generation of crystals or something, they will
as you know "mush" up like little knives what ever they are in.
But again, as long as freezing it does not mean that any of the materials are changing adversly phase state, there is no problem.

Imperial

[satfrat]

I would recommend Cryogenics International in Arizona. They did my whole system, that being 2 Butler tube hybrid amps(tubes included), Sunfire Theate Grand 4 processor, BPT balanced power conditioner, and a Music Hall CD-25. Everything was done in 10 days time including the shipping time. Everything came out ok except the Music Hall which simply fell apart becuase everthing was cheaply glued together. Glue and some rubber won't fare well with freezing and it's a gamble for sure but the payoff is a more quiet background in your system. There's a lot of good info on CI's website that'll show you just how big and varied their business really is. They even cryo engine blocks!. I know I'd do it again,,,,, but that's me and my system, ymmv. 


Robin

[kyrill]

thx people

yea i can imagine rubber and some glues can be damaged by "unlimited" cold
Robin as i dont have any experience with cryo yet. is a quieter background the most obvious advantage sonic wise, are there other benefits you may hear?

[satfrat]

thx people

yea i can imagine rubber and some glues can be damaged by "unlimited" cold
Robin as i dont have any experience with cryo yet. is a quieter background the most obvious advantage sonic wise, are there other benefits you may hear?

The quieter background was really the only benefit that I personally noticed audibly but that did result in a deeper perception of the soundstage also. Then there's other intangables that I've been told about such as solder joints being better fused togther on a circuit board for longer life. There are more knowledgable folks to talk about this stuff than myself. I just did a lot of researched, asked questions, then took the plunge. I feel it was worth it, minus that cheap POS Music Hall, but it's nothing like absolute zero to find out the quality of a components build.  I liked what I heard from my cryoed components and I'd do it again. But I would first look inside and see how well the thing is built first. For $600, i would have expected something better from Music Hall than a glued togther component but you just never know what you're buying today. There are folks at AA who have cryoed their components also, that would be a good place to ask for further info. 


Cheers,
Robin