B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~

jkelly · « **Reply #120 on:** 4 Sep 2009, 03:38 am »

I have not tried the B200 with 2 15" alphas, although I may in the future.
I think the driver balance is perfect now.

All I can say is Richard has put together an incredible combo.

My version with a highly modded NOS Jolida 102B is still the reference system
for all the new stuff I am building. For me - it is all about tone. And this is rich.
It won't have super bass or super highs. It will draw you into the music.

There was much work done on this system a few years back and I would
highly recommend anyone giving it a try.

Jeff

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #121 on:** 4 Sep 2009, 03:52 am »

Thanks for your input JKELLY.
Do you think one ALPHA and one B200 needs how many tube watts for a Hi SPL drive??
Looks two ALPHAS could have a big bass output?
I would like to xover cut in 600/700Hz this is too Hi?
Gustavo

Mr Content · « **Reply #122 on:** 4 Sep 2009, 06:21 am »

Not sure you need to go as high as 600-700hz with the bass, I found the best integration around 270hz. The B200 comes down to that easily. You will find the B200 is not well equipped for high SPL, it will do it OK, but will loose its smoothness. I do most of my listening around 95-100db. My 2cents worth anyway

Mr C aa

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #123 on:** 4 Sep 2009, 06:28 am »

Thanks Mr.C for help. I see in B200 Freq. chart the 270Hz point it already is in low low SPL, so I was think I could be better cut in 650Hz...
Looks the final tuning is by the ear, after listen both options.
Sincerely, Gustavo

Mr Content · « **Reply #124 on:** 4 Sep 2009, 06:33 am »

Yes I get where you are going with your setup, as I dont worry about high SPL, I have never tested those . Good luck with your system, keep us up to date with your progress.

Mr C aa

jkelly · « **Reply #125 on:** 4 Sep 2009, 11:02 pm »

I ran mine with a 4.7 foil inductor to the Alpha which cuts the sound around 275 -300 hz.
and full signal to the B200's.

I think Richard changed his inductor to have the crossover at 1000 hz. I never tried that.

If you are interested in running 2 alpha's - take a good look at the Anagram project by /Erling.

I am very pleased with mine.

Jeff

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #126 on:** 4 Sep 2009, 11:55 pm »

Quote from: jkelly on 4 Sep 2009, 11:02 pm

If you are interested in running 2 alpha's - take a good look at the Anagram project by /Erling.

Thankyou Mr.Kelly for these infos. I was complety unware of the Anagram project.
As a Bass lover I think I will like of two Alphas in parallel for 4 ohms, more one B200 (6 ohms). Seeing the Alpha15 Freq chart, I fell 1000Hz is too hi for the Alpha, 15 inches is a big cone for 1K hz frequencies. I stay with 300 Hz or 650Hz.
Cheers, Gustavo

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #127 on:** 5 Sep 2009, 12:09 am »

Quote from: jkelly on 4 Sep 2009, 11:02 pm

I ran mine with a 4.7 foil inductor to the Alpha which cuts the sound around 275 -300 hz.
and full signal to the B200's.

Mr. Kelly, I forgot to ask you what is the AWG of your inductor? By your tests the biggest AWG coil is better?? or no?
The Jantzen 4.7mH AWG 16 is $37 at PartsExpress, do it is a good brand??
Thanks, Gustavo

jkelly · « **Reply #128 on:** 5 Sep 2009, 04:17 am »

I have this one:

http://www.parts-express.com//pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=255-648

I'm not a crossover guy, but If you use 2 Alpha's (4 ohm) you might have to change the value
of the inductor to keep the same cutoff point.

Again I think the level of the single Alpha matches the output of the B200. If you run 2
Alpha's they may have too much output and overpower the B200.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #129 on:** 5 Sep 2009, 08:09 am »

Quote from: jkelly on 5 Sep 2009, 04:17 am

I have this one:
http://www.parts-express.com//pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=255-648
I'm not a crossover guy, but If you use 2 Alpha's (4 ohm) you might have to change the value
of the inductor to keep the same cutoff point.
Again I think the level of the single Alpha matches the output of the B200. If you run 2
Alpha's they may have too much output and overpower the B200.

Dear Mr.Kelly, Thankyou for your precision info.

After your statement I will can not use two Alphas, because of a probable imbalance in power and SPL. Well, back to the board.
I was want use two Alphas cause Iam afraid of short speakers, low in height, could have a soundstage low, near the room floor only and the soundstage do not rise hi in the room.
I wonder if your Alpha+B200 have the soundstage near the room floor only?? or it spread in all the room?
Thanks, Gustavo

benzene · « **Reply #130 on:** 22 Sep 2009, 04:21 am »

Dear all:
HiHiHi, I'm new & feel great to be here as i can find lots of info, too bad, i only realized this forum after i've done my OB. But it's never too late to know you all & learn from you all.

I'm currently using this on my open 2.5" thick, 20"x52" baffle, baffle made of plywood & teakwood:
Fountek NeoCD2.0 Ribbon Tweeter, Visaton B200, 2pcs Eminence Delta 15A.
B200 coupled with the ribbon tweeter with 1.22uF capacitors powered by 2A3 amp. 4 woofers powered by 4 channels Tripath 2020 amp.
I'm currently using Behringer DCX2496 as active crossover to play this setup in this configuration:

1st Output: Left Mid & Hi (1st order 200Hz to 20kHz)
2nd Output: Left Upper Woofer (4th order 20Hz to 200Hz)
3rd Output: Left Lower Woofer (4th order 20Hz to 200Hz)
4th Output: Right Mid & Hi (1st order 200Hz to 20kHz)
5th Output: Right Upper Woofer (4th order 20Hz to 200Hz)
6th Output: Right Lower Woofer (4th order 20Hz to 200Hz)

Is there anything wrong the above?
After briefly read through this thread & some other OB related threads, i found that my B200 has a peak around the region of 2 to 4kHz too? Any B200 users here experience this & what's the better solution to overcome it?
Anyone here using the DCX2496 too who can advice me how to configure the setting on the DCX2496 to overcome the peak?
Any input is much appreciated.
Thank you very much.
Some photos:

Kludden · « **Reply #131 on:** 23 Sep 2009, 07:26 am »

Benzene!
Really nice setup

Regards
Kludden

benzene · « **Reply #132 on:** 23 Sep 2009, 10:58 am »

Kludden:
Thanks, Kludden.
I'm still learning & getting the sound right.

Cheers.

Rudolf · « **Reply #133 on:** 23 Sep 2009, 01:54 pm »

B200 going full range from 200-20k Hz, joined by the ribbon tweeter somewhere in between? Wouldn't it be better to have a true passive crossover between the B200 and the Fountek?

tubamark · « **Reply #134 on:** 23 Sep 2009, 02:23 pm »

Quote from: Rudolf on 23 Sep 2009, 01:54 pm

B200 going full range from 200-20k Hz, joined by the ribbon tweeter somewhere in between? Wouldn't it be better to have a true passive crossover between the B200 and the Fountek?

Agreed . . . (Gorgeous setup, though--lots of potential). Also redundant to have two extra channels of processing for the Woofers, XO'd identically.
This arrangement could be useful, however, if the slopes/XO points are changed (for example, lowering XO on the bottom pair, or raising on the top pair) for tonal balancing -much better than regular EQ'ing -- VERY likely needed with the low Qts woofers you've chosen.
If you are happy with the blend as is, the extra processing only complicates the setup and costs you more interconnects & amplifiers than you need.

benzene · « **Reply #135 on:** 23 Sep 2009, 02:52 pm »

Rudolf:
I put 1.32uF capacitor between the B200 & the ribbon tweeter, crossed it around 17kHz. Yes you got a point there. Maybe i should try to go 3 way.

Tubamark:
Thanks. I was using only 2 channels for the 4pcs woofers earlier, thought of trying this 4channels configuration to see if i can get more power from the woofers. I know it's very redundant & look stupid to XO 4 woofers identically too

What do you suggest for me to try out to get better tonal balance?
Eg. which type of slope & what freq to try for the upper & lower pair of woofers?
I must admit that i don't understand those technical stuff like you all here. As i just started & i'm always amazed that you guys know so much

Supposed to get the Alpha but supplier was out of stock, therefore got myself the Delta, which later i only find out that Alpha is the better choice for either tube amp & OB, so have to play with what i'd bought....

Thanks.

aquapiranha · « **Reply #136 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 10:08 pm »

Quote from: jkelly on 4 Sep 2009, 03:38 am

I have not tried the B200 with 2 15" alphas, although I may in the future.
I think the driver balance is perfect now.

All I can say is Richard has put together an incredible combo.

My version with a highly modded NOS Jolida 102B is still the reference system
for all the new stuff I am building. For me - it is all about tone. And this is rich.
It won't have super bass or super highs. It will draw you into the music.

There was much work done on this system a few years back and I would
highly recommend anyone giving it a try.

Jeff

Hi. I may be able to help you there, as I am part way through building a pair of these...

they will be run active via a Rane AC22B crossover. apologies to anyone who has seen me post this on another forum.

Please feel free to add constructive criticism. Thanks, Steve.

markC · « **Reply #137 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 11:14 pm »

Kind of apples to oranges because I run passive xo. I found that the best way to tame the peakyness of the B200 is to kill it @ around 2k. I don't go heavy on spl's, so I run infinite baffle subs cut off around 70hz,(2nd order), B200 with baffle step compensation to bring down the rising response from as low as they go to 2100 hz and silk dome tweets from 2.1k to as high as they go;(3rd order). I played with this set-up for almost a year tweking the x-over until I was satisfied. I haven't touched it in over a year now. I guess you could say I'm satisfied.
I run the 2 - 15" IB sub drivers, (parrallel), with a 360 Watt plate amp and the B200's + tweets, (also Visaton), with our own 300 Watt Hybrid mono block amps. The system will safely run @ 90 - 95 db in room all day.

rhing · « **Reply #138 on:** 26 Oct 2009, 09:13 pm »

Forgive me if this is a bit OT. I have been reading this thread and I would like to know if I could incorporate the same basic design concept using a Fostex FX120 or Fostex F120A (intead of the Visaton B200) in an open baffle with an Eminence Beta 15 A. I would think a 6 or 6.5mH inductor would work with the Eminence Beta-15A. Any thoughts or ideas on whether this would make a good OB speaker?

Eminence Beta-15A Specifications:

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-410s.pdf

Fostex FX120 Specifications:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/fostexdrivers/fx120.pdf

Fostex F120A Speiififcations:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/fostexdrivers/f120a.pdf

Thanks

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #139 on:** 23 Nov 2009, 08:02 am »

Hi Boys, nice photos,
Do you already see the new Mark Audio 8 inches, ALPAIR 12 full range:

50Wcont, SPL 89,3dB 8ohms, Fo 46Hz, MMD 14,886g MMS 15,871g, CMS 0,750N/M, VAS 22L, Le 0,058mH, QMS 1,454 QES 0,420 QTS 0,327 XMAX 12mm EBP 109 Threshold 0,25W Plenum 10W
Price under 200 US dollars.
Now I wonder what is the best fullrange to use with two ALPHA15A crossing at 300Hz, the new ALPAIR12 or the VISATON B200 ??
Thanks for your advices, Gustavo