[TomW16]

Hi Brian,

I had much the same system as you with Ellis 1801s and Van Alstine equipment and, in my opinion, it sounds fantastic.  I have the parts to build another Dennis Murphy speaker design, the CAOW1, and just need some time and crossover parts to get it done.  As you may know, the CAOW1 uses similar drivers as the Song Tower and should sound very similar. 

Dave Ellis mentioned that the CAOW1s give up very little to the 1801s (which is high praise from Dave since he only sells the 1801 parts) so I would think that the Song Towers and the 1801s would be very close noting that both are designed by Dennis Murphy.

In my opinion, the next big jump would be to go to a well designed 3-way speaker like the Salk HT3s (also designed by Dennis Murphy), which would provide more bass depth and presence.

Cheers,
Tom

[DMurphy]

I think you're probably right about the 5% estimate.  You might recall that I did a comparo of the ST with the 1801A.  I was confused.  Maybe the ST has a theoretical edge in the midrange by using a smaller woofer and TL loading.  But the W18 is probably a lower distortion device.  Still, I agree that a comparison would be fun.  You just have to find a ST owner near you and spend an hour or two playing.  (Hopefully, there won't be any used ST's for sale, particularly at this early date.  Of course, Jim has sold hundreds of thousands of them, so you never know.  Millions, I tell you.)

[brj]

Not that you could do it for the same price as the SongTower, but I wonder what an HT1 would sound like if you gave it a QWTL loading...

[brj]

Not that you could do it for the same price as the SongTower, but I wonder what an HT1 would sound like if you gave it a QWTL loading...

It's been done:

http://www.salksound.com/vqw.shtml

Oops... I knew that! 

I guess since it gets the least amount of press and looks different enough from the other Veracity speakers that I completely forgot about it.

Thanks for the reminder!

[TomW16]

Hey Brian,

I can sense that you are looking to have some fun doing comparo's but I also feel your pain about spending that much money for a potentially marginal difference in sound.  I will, therefore, help you out and state with absolute certainty that your 1801s are the correct speaker without question for your circumstance.  In the interest of full disclosure, however, I have not heard the Song Towers to make any definitive statement comparing the 1801 with the Song Tower.  

Cheers,
Tom

[fsimms]

Brian,

I agree with Jim and Tom that you should keep the 1801's.  I haven't heard the 1801's but I did a comparo with HT1's and SongTowers.  Since the 1801's are so similar to the HT1's, I trust my opinion.  Athough the SongTowers are great speakers, I think the 1801's would easily walk away with the prize on music with natural instuments.  On the voice I can see that there would be different views from different people. 

[DMurphy]

 A speaker's inherent quality doesn't differ between voice and "natural instruments."   The voice is arguably the most natural of instruments.  If a speaker nails that, it will nail anything.  Obviously all of this is subjective, and I'm sure everyone realizes this, so no big deal.  But I really don't think you're drawing a meaningful distinction.  Or, to put it differently, if I thought I had to recommend one of my designs on the basis of voice, and another on natural instruments, I would go back to the drawing board. 

[EDS_]

Everyone,
If a guy wants detail, listenability, a smooth top end and I admit to liking mid bass slam a bit. And he listens to everything from Metallica to Samuel Barber, maybe back to back. Usually at low to moderate volumes but sometimes loudly. Does the 1801 or the ST make more sense.  Assuming 60 or so good quality tube watts of power a good DAC, a 12x16 room with a high ceiling and speakers along a long wall?

Any thoughts?

I've narrowed my speakers search to a final five both the ST and 1801 are in the running.

[TomW16]

To add to what Dennis mentioned regarding recorded voices through loudspeakers, most people listen to the human voice throughout the day and can discern what a natural voice sounds like versus a recorded voice.  If you're fortunate enough to play live music regularly, as Dennis is, you may also be able to easily discern the differences between live and recorded instruments.  The more accurate the speaker, the more it sounds live.

I have been in an adjacent room with the Ellis 1801s playing and thought "Wow, it sounds like they are in the next room".  Of course, the 1801s sound better when your in the same room.

Cheers,
Tom

[DMurphy]

I have one 1801 cabinet at home (I never seem to have two of anything), and I'll stick the drivers and the "B" crossover in it this weekend.  I doubt that I'll end up recommending one over the other, but at least I can try and describe the differences and measure the bass performance. 

[fsimms]

Obviously all of this is subjective, and I'm sure everyone realizes this, so no big deal.

I agree with you that it is very subjective.   Words are very difficult to use to talk about an experience.  Different people listen to different things.  I could say that the difference for me on the HT1's and the SongTowers was the incredible clarity of the HT1's but one person would think I was talking about the tweeter response and another person would think that I am talking about the midrange woofer distortion!

[DMurphy]

Oh--I thought you were talking about Jim's high-gloss finish.