Handel's Messiah

JohnR · « **on:** 18 Oct 2007, 03:19 pm »

Anyone else rate this as one of their all-time faves? For a while way back when I actually thought it a bit silly until I realized that almost any choral work would be silly if I understood Latin. Yet somehow, this is one that just never tires. I only have two recordings of it, this one is Neville Marriner with the Academy of St Martin in the Fields.

weirdo · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Oct 2007, 06:46 pm »

Its a good one, there are others to get hooked on. Move on to Mozart's Requiem or a sampling from Bach's St. Mathew passion. There are some incredible choral compositions in those as well.

goldlizsts · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Oct 2007, 07:38 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 18 Oct 2007, 03:19 pm

Anyone else rate this as one of their all-time faves? For a while way back when I actually thought it a bit silly until I realized that almost any choral work would be silly if I understood Latin. Yet somehow, this is one that just never tires. I only have two recordings of it, this one is Neville Marriner with the Academy of St Martin in the Fields.

There is an oldie, Colin David (Phillips), which was supposed to be reissued in Hybrid I believe. It was supposed to be 1 of Phillips's 50 something series (what's that series called, Signature 50????, remastered kind of thing. I saw it in one of the sleeves in a CD I picked up in Hong Kong. I looked out for it here in the States, but never saw it. The original recording, no the better "50" series, is still available as a budget reissue I think. Do you have that one? Of course, the Messiah is a must-have in anyone's classical recording collection. Basic repertory kind of thing, but a masterpiece.

Fife12 · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Oct 2007, 08:28 pm »

I have one with Christopher Hogwood. Its a good set

goldlizsts · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 12:48 am »

Quote from: Fife12 on 18 Oct 2007, 08:28 pm

I have one with Christopher Hogwood. Its a good set

I have the Hogwood set too, I believe. I'm not a period instrument convert. Not too hot about that. The Colin Davis set is better recorded, IMO. The Hogwood set is newer though (I believe). Good that you like the Hogwood set. There are a number of good ones out there.

jules · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 01:08 am »

Haven't heard the Neville Mariner version ... that could be good. I like the St. Martin in the Fields recordings in general, perhaps because the orchestra size is moderate, the recording is good and the instrumentation is well defined.

I've got the Colin Davis, Phillips version. I think it was recorded in '93. Must give it another listen in the wake of some recent mods.

jules

JohnR · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 08:23 am »

I will have to try and find that Colin Davis recording

Quote from: weirdo on 18 Oct 2007, 06:46 pm

a sampling from Bach's St. Mathew passion

No need to sample

But a different genre almost... no?

Double Ugly · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 08:29 am »

Quote from: JohnR on 19 Oct 2007, 08:23 am

I will have to try and find that Colin Davis recording

If you find a source, be sure to let us know... 'kay?

I looked for a little while tonight, but the searches I tried weren't productive.

Thebiker · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 12:45 pm »

The best recording of the Messiah that I have heard is this one:

The Handel and Haydn Society recording of Handel's Messiah arranged by Wolfgang Amadé Mozart, featuring the Handel and Haydn Society Chorus and Period Orchestra, conducted by Andrew Parrott.

www.handelandhaydn.org

Click on "Shop" and scroll down to find it. Pricey, but worth it.

goldlizsts · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 12:49 pm »

Quote from: Thebiker on 19 Oct 2007, 12:45 pm

The best recording of the Messiah that I have heard is this one:

The Handel and Haydn Society recording of Handel's Messiah arranged by Wolfgang Amadé Mozart, featuring the Handel and Haydn Society Chorus and Period Orchestra, conducted by Andrew Parrott.

www.handeland haydn.org Click on shop and scroll down to find it. It is worth the effort and the price.

Chesky also has a set. I used to use much Track 22, or 23 (off the to of my head), "His yoke is easy......" to test a speaker as each choral part comes in.

Randy · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 03:23 pm »

I have several Messiahs and very much like the Hogwood version from the 1980s. It is let down, however, by a awfully weak tenor. I just have to skip his solos. (I have never heard of him in any other context, his work on this recording explains that.) The other soloists are superb, but the reason I like it is the boy's choir in the choruses. Another "original instruments" version that is superb, and generally considered the best fairly recent Messiah is the one conducted by Trevor Pinnock. Mixed choirs (no boy trebles). It may not be currently available, however.

Of course, Handel wrote dozens of other oratorios and choral works, many of which are considered greater works than the Messiah, not to mention fifty or sixty operas. Try recent recordings of oratorios Theodora and Saul conducted by Paul McCreesh. There are also many opera aria and solo cantata recordings that are superb. Try those by Emma Kirkby, Mario Bayo, Veronica Gens, Sandra Piau, Magdalena Kozena, Natale Dessay. An essential recording is the most recent one of arias sung by Lorraine Hunt Lieberson. Don't be put off by opera excerpts, the choruses and arias for operas, oratorios, and cantatas are in the same style and indistinguishable as to what type of work it comes from.

To turn to another composer, try the late Haydn masses. All six are masterpieces as is his oratorio "The Creation." There are many recordings available of the masses. I like the Pinnock versions of some (not a complete set), and the old set by the choir of St. John's, Cambridge conducted by George Guest has long been considered definitive. They are available in a box set on Decca. Another box set with more up to date sound is conducted by John Eliot Gardner. The supreme masterpiece of this series of masterworks is the "Lord Nelson Mass," and the Guest recording is considered one of the great recordings of all time. It is available separately. An old recording of the "Mass in Time of War" or Paukennesse (kettledrum mass), due to the prominent use of kettledrums in the Agnus Dei, a spine-chilling moment, has just come out on "Classics for Pleasure." It's one I've waited for 20 years to finally come on on CDs. The artists are the King's College Choir, a great set of soloists, and David Willcocks conducting. It is a thrilling version of a great work, but the transfer has some distortion in places. Still my preferred version by a long shot of the "Mass in Time of War."

goldlizsts · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 03:30 pm »

Quote from: Randy on 19 Oct 2007, 03:23 pm

I have several Messiahs..........................

Very interesting info. Thanks.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 03:45 pm »

Quote from: goldlizsts on 19 Oct 2007, 03:30 pm

Quote from: Randy on 19 Oct 2007, 03:23 pm
I have several Messiahs..........................

Very interesting info. Thanks.

I agree. Thanks, Randy.

Randy · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 03:51 pm »

Glad I could help. When I start writing about music, I get carried away. There is so much great stuff out there.
I took a CD of Rubinstein playing Chopin Ballades to Denver last week and was able to play it in a few rooms. Most who heard it were astonished at the sound, the playing, and above all, the great music. Most of the guys were unaware that such a thing is even out there.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 04:01 pm »

Quote from: Randy on 19 Oct 2007, 03:51 pm

I took a CD of Rubinstein playing Chopin Ballades to Denver last week and was able to play it in a few rooms.

This one?

You should have introduced yourself in Denver. I was the guy with the 3-d, rotating "Double Ugly" holograph above my noggin.

Surely you saw me.

goldlizsts · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 04:04 pm »

Quote from: Randy on 19 Oct 2007, 03:51 pm

Glad I could help. When I start writing about music, I get carried away. There is so much great stuff out there.
I took a CD of Rubinstein playing Chopin Ballades to Denver last week and was able to play it in a few rooms. Most who heard it were astonished at the sound, the playing, and above all, the great music. Most of the guys were unaware that such a thing is even out there.

Don't be surprised, the majority of the audiophiles out there lean toward jazz. That's why classical (ugly word) music is foreign to many ears. It's classical music that will showcase a hi-fi piece at its best (or ugliest), especially the speakers, the last link in the sound chain. Some of my friends keep bragging about how good their systems are, but the full spectrum of dynamics rarely come out of their system because of the music they play, keyboard, strings, woodwinds, percussion.....

I think I have the Rubinstein Ballades on SACD hybrid, if I can find it among the stacks of CDs I have.

Randy · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 07:01 pm »

Fellas,
It was the SACD version. Hard to believe those are fifty year old recordings, but they have been remastered beautifully. The CD layer sounds very good, too. I hope RCA releases more of its vast Rubinstein's Chopin catalog in SACD, though some of the other recent reissues sound pretty good, although not spectaular like this one.

Ugly, no, I didn't see you. I was there Sunday for most of the day. I keep a low profile, and have trouble walking into rooms where there are already a lot of people listening to something, so didn't get around as much as I would have liked. One happy event at the show. I was able to buy one of PS Audio's premier power plants at a 40% discount. It seems to have solved my bad electriical problem I have here in the evening hours, a problem several other brands of power conditioners did little to alleviate, including an earlier verson of PS audio's power plant, the 500.

I know most audiophiles lean toward jazz, but I think many of you/them would come to appreciate classical if you were exposed to it more. I understand that many people just don't know where to start since the countless choices can be bewildering to the uninitiated.

I used to listen to a lot of jazz, still admire the artists and their music, but for me it amounted to a loss of time I could have spent listening to classical, a realization that probably not coincidentally coincided with the purchase of my first "high-end" system centered around Magnepan speakers in the mid-80s. (BTW, in Denver I picked up Reference Recordings new release of Clark Terry (trumpet) big band cuts. I used to enjoy seeing Terry as a member of the Tonight Show band back in the day, so I haven't given up jazz completely.)

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 07:10 pm »

Was it this recording ? .....Link...

Randy · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 07:15 pm »

goldliszt - I forgot to say that I agree with you. Classical, esp. orchestral recording are the true test of any system. Massed strings must be the most difficult sound to record and reproduce successfully, esp. digitally. If there's any grain or hash anywhere in the system, it will come out most audibly when the violins take a prominent role in a piece of music which is practically all the time in most symphonic music. Try Tchaikovsky's Serenade for Strings as a good example, a torture test for recording producers and listeners via hi fi equipment. So much pop music is offered via processed recordings of recordings so to speak, and are not really live music and can make any system sound great. I had a pair of Salk speakers for a while. Jim sends a sampler CD with his speakers. Holy smoke. The cuts on that CD are so processed, souped up, equalized, or whatever so much they sound great on pretty much anything you play them on. Artificial for sure, but impressive none the less.

Randy · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Oct 2007, 07:24 pm »

lonewolfny - yes, that's it. What a steal at $7. The first Ballade is the greatest of the four, imo, and the highlight of the disc, though the other works are superb as well. Many people who think they don't know classical will find the main theme of this ballade familiar.