[doug s.]

because the cart guy is good at math, & knows $30 is only one dollar more than $29!  negligable difference!   

doug s.

ps - my old meret re's have a similar felt baffle built right in to speaker grilles; they are tapered at ~45* angle at the driver edges... they do work...

It would be interesting if anyone could A vs. B the neoprene rings for $29 pair versus the felt squares from Jim Goulding for $30.00.  The difference is negligible if indeed the felt works better 

And you would know this how? 

[satfrat]

because the cart guy is good at math, & knows $30 is only one dollar more than $29!  negligable difference!  

doug s.

ps - my old meret re's have a similar felt baffle built right in to speaker grilles; they are tapered at ~45* angle at the driver edges... they do work...

It would be interesting if anyone could A vs. B the neoprene rings for $29 pair versus the felt squares from Jim Goulding for $30.00.  The difference is negligible if indeed the felt works better 

And you would know this how? 

DUH!   I really gotta learn to read.   I thought he was saying the felt/neoprene audio difference would be negligable,,,, not the price.   My apology's (again) Chair Guy.

[doug s.]

i know what you thought - to be honest, so did i, at first.  the cart guy's comments are a bit confusing - his english teacher would not be happy.   

doug s.

because the cart guy is good at math, & knows $30 is only one dollar more than $29!  negligable difference!   

doug s.

ps - my old meret re's have a similar felt baffle built right in to speaker grilles; they are tapered at ~45* angle at the driver edges... they do work...

It would be interesting if anyone could A vs. B the neoprene rings for $29 pair versus the felt squares from Jim Goulding for $30.00.  The difference is negligible if indeed the felt works better 

[size=25DUH!pt][/size]  I really gotta learn to read.  I thought he was saying the felt/neoprene audio difference would be negligable,,,, not the price.  My apology's (again) Chair Guy.

And you would know this how? 

[DaveC113]

Has anyone tried them on 4.5" single driver speakers?

Dave

[TheChairGuy]

Actually, my math is awful...the neoprene rings are $10.00 each so two are $20 (it wasn't so much math actually as a typo  ).  Jim Goulding's felt is $30.00.

$10.00 - negligible difference nonetheless in this crazy hobby 

John

[Jim N.]

It appears to be 9.99 per set of 2 imagers + shipping from The Great White North. I forget what I paid for my set but I think it was about 15 bucks shipped for the pair. I am not sure if AIG is in business anymore as they stopped their print mag and went web only.

I'm not sure about A-B between these and Jim G's since I don't know how well the adhesive backs would take to being removed and reattached. 

Regardless, these and Jim G's sure fall into the "cheap tweak" category. I can't see any reason why Jim's would not be at least as good as the AIG ones.

[rajacat]

Has anybody tried a ScotchBright pad for a diffraction device?  

---Roy

[ooheadsoo]

Please don't get those neoprene rings.  They fully admit they reflect and therefore will also diffract, defeating their purpose.  You can see the effects already in synthetic wool, which is still much more absorbent than neoprene!

[jimdgoulding]

Again, bro.  Thank you.  But you are not misleading readers.  I have picked up eight new orders in the last 24 hours on speakers I've never seen let alone heard but they are all candidates.  One cat has just upgraded his Merlins (one I know about very well) and bought a new Joule pre.  The Merlins are perfect cause of their large flat baffle.  I'm making panels for midrange planars for two cats.  I've done this before for some VMPS towers.  No neoprene rings can hang here.  You know what bugs me is that this began as a well intended forum that has become about two products ever since the facilitator interjected his remarks.  If this were about a new speaker would he have thrown in another speaker?  I would certainly hope not.

This tells me that he doesn't understand the significance of what is to be had altho he would have readers believe he does.   Better imaging . . that's only a part of it, but, I suspect, that's all he knows.  Again, thanks, Head, for your perception and comments.   

[Jim N.]

Wasn't intending to thread crap here. The concept has been around awhile but obviously the execution could be improved. I'd be open to buying them if they can be readily removed. They are certainly inexpensive. Felt does seem a better material than neoprene.

[jimdgoulding]

I think Jim N. was refering to removing what he had which is self adhesive.  Keep it in stow, facilitator, allow me . . only slightly in my experience which could be removed with a little effort and without damage to my speaker surfaces.  I fancy the idea that my adhesive tabs leave a wee bit of space between the fascias and the cabinet surfaces for air to breathe.  What comes in, is less likely to get out is my theory.  And they are removable and reusable without any residue being left behind, of course.

Jimmy- Trust me, if it's not too much to ask, it is.

[TheChairGuy]

You know what bugs me is that this began as a well intended forum that has become about two products ever since the facilitator interjected his remarks.  If this were about a new speaker would he have thrown in another speaker?  I would certainly hope not.

This tells me that he doesn't understand the significance of what is to be had altho he would have readers believe he does. 

Pardon me, Jim Goulding (and Robin/satfrat)...but perhaps you haven't noticed the circle this was placed in?  It's called 'Review of Accessories' and it's an enthusiast circle, not any exclusive domain of any one manufacturer. Audiophools are free to ask questions, and make commentary on the review and offer up alternatives, or whatever else pithy statements are usually made in enthusiast circles.

Had this topic been placed in the 'Industry Ads' circle, it might have been bad form to interject about a 'competing' product to your own.  But, as I owned these neoprene rings almost 20 years ago, and found them to be at least somewhat helpful for imaging back then, and that this was an enthusiast circle (besides any fact that I'm a Facilitator on this particular one, I am an enthusiast with no commercial ties to anyone), my comments were acceptable, at the very least.

Yes - if the Review were of a Loudspeaker, enthusiasts could make mention of another speaker brand in response - as long as it was all kept fairly sane and civil.

Did you or did you not say you got 8 orders in the past 24 hours?  And, how much have you paid for your 'membership' at Audio Circle in order to receive these orders?  The answer is nothing/nada/zip/zilch...and that you have financially benefited from your participation on a topic that now stretches to 4 pages.  Were it not for my interjection about those neoprene rings, this topic likely woulda' peetered out two pages ago and wouldn't have gotten this many views....so count your blessings. 

Before you take a high-fallutin' dump on either Audio Circle or the fully volunteer / unpaid efforts of Facilitators here.....get your facts in order, please. 

I could have PM'ed you this, but as satfrat/Robin later aped your less-than-correct statement, I thought I'd address this openly:

This is an enthusiast circle, not the domain of any one manufacturer.  I personally don't take lightly parasite manufacturers successfully marketing and selling their wares for free here, then crapping on the very mechanics that have been set-up and allowed for it in the first place.

  par·a·site    audio  (pr-st)  KEY 

NOUN:

   1. Biology An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
   2. One who habitually takes advantage of the generosity of others without making any useful return.

You may well be a decent chap, but your facts are waaaay out-of-whack.

John / The ChairGuy / Facilitator

[FredT300B]

Jim, did you say somewhere they're available in black felt? I'm just completing the DIY speakers linked below. The baffles on mine will be black, and black tweeter surrounds would be far less obtrusive. If they're available in black I'll PM you with an order. (Pleeeease, nobody mention this on the line array circle - everybody will think I'm a traitor). 

http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/Statements.html

[jimdgoulding]

Freddie-  Would you mind sending me an email at my regular ole email address-  jimdgoulding@yahoo.com.  A PM makes it hard to identify in my mailbox cause I can't tell who it's from amongst many.  This way we can keep our conversations together and more easy for me to reference as I may need to refer back several times depending.  I would appreciate it, EVERYBODY, if you would indulge me this.  Thanks and Good Morning. 

[brj]

Lest there be any confusion...  my choice of words may have differed a bit from TCG, but my position on this thread, as the other facilitator of the combined Critic's Circles, aligns perfectly with his.

This set of circles is intended for users to post reviews of audio gear they own or have auditioned extensively, hopefully with enough background that the review allows other users to gauge the possible impact of that component in their own system and how it might align with their own audio preferences.  All manufacturers are encouraged to comment and provide any needed clarification, but this is not the Industry Ads or Industry Talk circle.  For everyone's clarification, I strongly suggest that all parties read the recently updated Critic's Circle Guidelines prior to posting a review.

To make a few general recommendations...  If you are new to AC, I would recommend reading those sets of site guidelines that apply to you as a regular member, industry participant, etc..  In addition, most circles have their own guidelines, and I would suggest reading them before posting in that circle for the first time.

Thank you!

Edit: Bold-faced the links to make them standout better against the background

[TheChairGuy]

ha - in this case - Brian/brj is actually the good cop here (Facilitator); he's not just playing the role   

Most joking aside - we both want manufacturers to succeed and use Audio Circle for their benefit - but please understand we must be fair to all. And, primarily, this site is for enthusiasts...if it were not, you wouldn't want to sell your wares here anyhow 'cause there wouldn't be anyone to sell to.

Ciao, John (the not-really-so-bad-cop) 

[ooheadsoo]

What is the purpose of the air gap?  As I understand it, the sound from the tweeter will travel right across the face of the cabinet.  If there is a gap, doesn't that mean that some sound will "sneak" through and diffract off of the cabinet edges?

[jimdgoulding]

Probably little or no significance, really, in the way you speak of as it’s less than an eighth of an inch altho it’s not like I’ve seen anything on a scope.  Something about energy being converted to heat.  That’s what the technical editor of Positive Feedback tried to explain to me.  She’s a lady with a good mouth on her until she begins to talk technical and then she’s all business.  She and her husband are both engineers and design and manufacture audio products from Jenalabs.  About my surrounds she said and I quote “the right stuff for the right angles”.  Think I’ll call her and see if I can pin her down.  I have another reason that I alluded to in Industry Talk.

Indulge me here, Head, and allow me to respond to brj and Chair Guy.  Using this space should in no way imply that Head is anything less than neutral.

Ya’ll kinda closing ranks on me, huh.  Actually, I when first chimed in on this discussion it was to answer a question by F-100 and get on the playing field with Tex and DIY’s.  I lacked the confidence that would happen on its own.  Later, it appeared to me that the discussion was veering away in (that was say "from", for what it's worth) the direction I hoped it would go.  Silly me, of course, this happens.  But it was an interjection by a facilitator that caused this who I now know was interjecting as an enthusiast.  That simple thing escaped me.  Were I a facilitator myself, however, I wouldn’t have done that.  My judgment would have prohibited it.  You realize Chair, you dropped a competitor right into the mix.  As an enthusiast, however, I can relate.  No foul.

Just to add a counterpoint to some of the points made by Chair Guy, I have a high opinion of The Audio Circle.  Chair, my point was with you only, and I, too, have contributed to the life of the discussion and elsewhere, I believe.  I am an enthusiast, also, above anything else I might be, and that’s the reason I’m here.  I think you implied differently.  I’ve learned about a lot of stuff I had no knowledge of before and from a lot of people whose opinions I have the highest regard for.   

I offered an Audio Circle members’ price and while that has proved beneficial, that’s a two way street.  Members, too, are beneficiaries and the idea was given to me right here on Audio Circle.

Chair, you’re closing remarks were rather piqued, but I believe you felt insulted and so I understand where you were coming from.  I apologize for riling you.  Nobody wins from a row. 

brj, your point is well taken.

Regards, Chair, all.


.

[TheChairGuy]

Jim -

I don't really understand your circuitous logic on the event....this is a User/Enthusiast circle; my comment(s) was neither rash, wrong or in poor taste.  It was simply, relevant, and timely to the discussion at hand.  Although we recognize that you were an audio enthusiast first and foremost....you lost that first-tier status to that of Industry Participant / Manufacturer now.

If you stop actively making your anti-diffraction rings...you can have your old status of user / enthusiast back......but, until that time, you lose that primary status to that of Industry Participant / Manufacturer.

That's why we make such a big deal about proper sign-offs for Industry Participants....to make sure everyone knows 100% that your views are certain subjects isn't altogether neutral because you have a financial stake in some of them.  You had issue with that not long ago when it was pointed out to you - I have no idea why other than you are a stubborn Texan (frankly, a mostly endearing trait to me, at least  )

I hope you sell 100,000 of these rings to folks and I hope folks elect you to the Audio Hall of Fame for them....but you have financial incentive to sell them and you don't own this circle (neither do I or brj for that matter).  It is a circle where members of all types, Non and Industry Participants, may discuss equipment freely without censorship efforts from the makers under discussion. If you tried to squelch any members right to participate by introducing a competitors name, I would have responded the same to you.  It was only happenstance or coincidence that the member was indeed me 

Bottom line: stop immediately any attempt to censor efforts to make relevant points about your product or introduce comments about competitors here.  It is allowed - what you would do using your judgement is an aside.  You really don't have an issue with me - your issue is with understanding the rules (of which I am no stickler, I assure you, brj flies that subject narrower than I do) for posting in this circle. Learn 'em and all is rosy with me.

I'm a 'glass half full' kinda' guy and my grudges are short-lived, so let's get on with life in relative harmony 

(Longhorn sign - or closest to it I could find)

[woodsyi]

Jim,

Why don't you put an advertising post on the Industry Ads circle?  Mentioning competitive products in a thread in that circle would be bad form. 

Since we are in the critic's circle, I have couple of questions.  What thickness is your felt and is it advisable to use such on a tweeter with a wave guide?