What do you like to see next to be developed by a hifi manufacturer?

JoshK · « **Reply #20 on:** 9 Oct 2007, 04:37 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 9 Oct 2007, 04:28 pm

I'd like to see someone "wake up" the home audio market to active loudspeakers. Other than single driver fans and PMC, very few can be found in home use.

Cause audiophiles are in love with their amps. In my world view, speaker manufacurers would provide speakers without the passive xo's but instead provide the filters to program into active xo's, which everyone would have instead. Then audiophiles can keep their beloved amps. But amps can be tailored to their function. You don't need a 600w SS beast if you are running mids or tweeters...those can be tube amps.

Mike Dzurko · « **Reply #21 on:** 9 Oct 2007, 04:48 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 9 Oct 2007, 04:28 pm

I'd like to see someone "wake up" the home audio market to active loudspeakers. Other than single driver fans and PMC, very few can be found in home use.

I agree w/ you but don't think it will happen soon. Some folks are still resistant to powered subs. About five years ago when we offered a number of models with powered woofer sections, our customers essentially told us they'd prefer passive versions, (not everyone, but I'm talking about the ratio of actual buyers). Paradigm offered the Active 20, and in spite of pos. reviews etc. it didn't stay on the market very long.

spud · « **Reply #22 on:** 9 Oct 2007, 06:04 pm »

How about a speaker which is full range 20Hz-20,000Hz and sells for less than $3500.

spud

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #23 on:** 9 Oct 2007, 08:56 pm »

Quote from: Mike Dzurko on 9 Oct 2007, 04:48 pm

Quote from: JLM on 9 Oct 2007, 04:28 pm
I'd like to see someone "wake up" the home audio market to active loudspeakers. Other than single driver fans and PMC, very few can be found in home use.

I agree w/ you but don't think it will happen soon. Some folks are still resistant to powered subs. About five years ago when we offered a number of models with powered woofer sections, our customers essentially told us they'd prefer passive versions, (not everyone, but I'm talking about the ratio of actual buyers). Paradigm offered the Active 20, and in spite of pos. reviews etc. it didn't stay on the market very long.

I think that’s it in a nutshell. They don't sell in high-end audio.

I'm doing some active projects anyway, just because I'm stubborn

Zero · « **Reply #24 on:** 9 Oct 2007, 08:59 pm »

Dare to be different Mike. Sapphire XL en' active.

aerius · « **Reply #25 on:** 9 Oct 2007, 09:20 pm »

An automatic turntable that flips the records over for me so I don't have to get up every ~20 minutes.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #26 on:** 9 Oct 2007, 09:24 pm »

just get one of those Duals with rim drive and the spindle in the middle and stack 'em up!
....and hope the record doesn't land on top of your $1000 cartridge.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #27 on:** 9 Oct 2007, 10:05 pm »

How about this?

A preamp/processor/DVD/CD player in a single box that outputs high quality digital streams (SACD/DVD Audio/Video/dolby/DTS etc. to active speakers that accept the bit stream input.

From there, the anti-jitter circuit passes the bit stream to the output stage, where it converted to analog and applied to a MOS-FET output with no negative feedback (a la Sony DA9000ES/7100ES).

But why stop there? A microphone feed could be fed back into the processor to correct in room responses real time.

What do you reckon? aa

Mike Dzurko · « **Reply #28 on:** 9 Oct 2007, 11:31 pm »

Quote from: Zero on 9 Oct 2007, 08:59 pm

Dare to be different Mike. Sapphire XL en' active.

Losing my shirt once was "too bad" doing the same thing again would be brain dead . . . and no Sean, I am not that old

Duke · « **Reply #29 on:** 9 Oct 2007, 11:49 pm »

Spud wrote:

"How about a speaker which is full range 20Hz-20,000Hz and sells for less than $3500."

You're talking about an honest 20 Hz, and not a marketing-department 20 Hz... right? Because I can give you a marketing-department 20 Hz any day of the week...

Seriously, that's a very interesting and challenging suggestion. I have a thread going over on Industry Talk where I'm asking people what they'd like to see in a loudspeaker, and this one would fit right in.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=45525.0

I don't yet know if I can do it, and I won't have time to do any in-depth investigation and modelling until after RMAF, but I'll take a look at it when I get back. If I'm going to do such a speaker, it would have to meet other requirements that I'd impose.

Duke

Rick Craig · « **Reply #30 on:** 10 Oct 2007, 03:20 am »

Quote from: Duke on 9 Oct 2007, 11:49 pm

Spud wrote:

"How about a speaker which is full range 20Hz-20,000Hz and sells for less than $3500."

You're talking about an honest 20 Hz, and not a marketing-department 20 Hz... right? Because I can give you a marketing-department 20 Hz any day of the week...

Seriously, that's a very interesting and challenging suggestion. I have a thread going over on Industry Talk where I'm asking people what they'd like to see in a loudspeaker, and this one would fit right in.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=45525.0

I don't yet know if I can do it, and I won't have time to do any in-depth investigation and modelling until after RMAF, but I'll take a look at it when I get back. If I'm going to do such a speaker, it would have to meet other requirements that I'd impose.

Duke

That reminds me of a VS dealer who became rather irate with me when I questioned their "optimistic" specs of -3db @20hz for off-the-shelf Seas woofers

JLM · « **Reply #31 on:** 10 Oct 2007, 10:22 am »

I auditioned Paradigm Studio 20 ($800/pair) versus Active 20 ($1600/pair) about 8 years ago. It was no contest. The Studio 20 is a well built decent sounding hi-fi entry level 2-way standmounted speaker. But the Active 20 had flatter frequency response, huge dynamics, and unbelievable strong/deep bass (on par with their $1600 Studio 80 floorstanders). Bystanders were slackjawed. For the extra money you'd be crazy not to have gone with the Actives.

Modern marketing has convinced most of the "need" for 20 - 20,000 Hz at 110 dB. This sells lots of equipment as that gets very expensive if done right and generates lots of fustrations when not done right (usually the case). The fustrations leads to more sales as the hapless audiophile chases his tail. The expense can start with the need for the proper room (that the vast majority don't have and so can never get really good sound). Give me a nice $2000 system in a decent room over a $20,000 system in a crummy room any day.

As far as new product ideas, how about a good build/sound quality compact audio system that accommodates an iPod? Shanling introduced one earlier this year (typical flash gordon looks that played CDs and had an AM/FM tuner I believe), but it was low powered, had a small display, came with questionable speakers, and was priced too high ($1000). The market I'm envisioning is college dorms, and 2nd systems with the price staying around $500. Basically an upscale car stereo with large display, sleep function, but with a smaller/higher quality amp. Something to compete intelligently with the Bose wave radio. The iPod dock would be central, but the CD/AM/FM features are still needed to separate it from all the iPod accessories out there. Hopefully it would provide a taste of hi-end and endice the straights to enter the world of audiophilia.

JohninCR · « **Reply #32 on:** 10 Oct 2007, 10:59 am »

What do you like to see next to be developed by a hifi manufacturer?

Real selection in off the shelf OB speakers, and none of the box the bass just to get some solutions either. I mean OB all the way, including the flexibility to properly EQ the bass region to fit the room. Don't worry about below 30 or 40hz, since that's subwoofer territory and all but very large typical speakers can't do the lower bass range anyway. A proper solution will include the ability to tune for placement with pockets in the back for rear wave attenuation. Use drivers to get the XO to the tweeter up to a frequency that is out of the critical range, and properly address what occurs at the edge of the baffle whether it's pure dipole or not.

If you really want to produce a superb and unique speaker, then explore CD waveguides that reach below 1khz, while retaining an open alignment. Dr. Geddes is really on to something with regard to the benefits of Constant Directivity and his method of getting rid of HOMs, though he misses the substantial in-room benefits only an open alignment can provide. Sorry but narrow speakers will always miss the mark no matter what kind of XO magic is applied in an attempt to control directivity.

IOW, stop trying to sell the same tired thing in a new package, when speakers are the only thing that make a significant difference in sound, and the jumbled mess of reflections in the bass region makes all boxed speakers inadequate. The real question is who has the guts to come out with something that really is new and better, while packaging it in an attractive form. Come up with the right formula and the world will beat your door down, after you slam boxed speakers in any head to head comparison. Don't leave OB to be explored only by the experimenters, most people want to buy speakers not build them. They just want the best sound.

John

BrianM · « **Reply #33 on:** 10 Oct 2007, 11:22 am »

Quote from: JLM on 10 Oct 2007, 10:22 am

Modern marketing has convinced most of the "need" for 20 - 20,000 Hz at 110 dB. This sells lots of equipment as that gets very expensive if done right and generates lots of fustrations when not done right (usually the case). The fustrations leads to more sales as the hapless audiophile chases his tail. The expense can start with the need for the proper room (that the vast majority don't have and so can never get really good sound). Give me a nice $2000 system in a decent room over a $20,000 system in a crummy room any day.

-10db @ 20 Hz is more than enough. Too much in fact for many real-world arrangements (imo).

Double Ugly · « **Reply #34 on:** 10 Oct 2007, 03:59 pm »

INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS

Fellas, let's leave it to your satisfied customers and impressed bystanders to push your products.

I don't want this thread to turn into an Audio Circle version of Manufacturer's Showcase, nor do I believe it was/is the OP's desire for it to become one.

Thanks.

Double Ugly
Facilitator/Audio Central

brj · « **Reply #35 on:** 10 Oct 2007, 06:28 pm »

Quote from: JoshK

In my world view, speaker manufacurers would provide speakers without the passive xo's but instead provide the filters to program into active xo's, which everyone would have instead.

2nd that motion!

If you want a middle ground, offer passive crossovers as an option, either externally housed in a nice enclosure or internal housed via an easily removed mount.

(I ordered my 3-way speakers with external passive crossovers on the expectation of going fully active someday. The definition of "someday" corresponds to the eventual drop in price of DEQX or TacT gear. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have happened yet, so there is another suggestion for you... more competition in the digital crossover market with a product that provides at least 3 way capability, maybe 4 for sub integration, and both IIR and FIR filters.)

hifitommy · « **Reply #36 on:** 13 Oct 2007, 08:29 pm »

yeah, sme has arms with detachable shells but at a higher cost. we need for there to be arms like the mmt and grace arms with universal shell capability. the dynavector is of that type but highly priced.

it would be nice to have some selection of affordable arms that allow quick interchange of carts for those of us withe multiple cartridges.

fixed headshell arms may possibly sound a bit better overall but quick changeability is a big plus.

John Casler · « **Reply #37 on:** 13 Oct 2007, 08:37 pm »

Quote from: brj on 10 Oct 2007, 06:28 pm

Quote from: JoshK
In my world view, speaker manufacurers would provide speakers without the passive xo's but instead provide the filters to program into active xo's, which everyone would have instead.

2nd that motion!

If you want a middle ground, offer passive crossovers as an option, either externally housed in a nice enclosure or internal housed via an easily removed mount.

(I ordered my 3-way speakers with external passive crossovers on the expectation of going fully active someday. The definition of "someday" corresponds to the eventual drop in price of DEQX or TacT gear. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have happened yet, so there is another suggestion for you... more competition in the digital crossover market with a product that provides at least 3 way capability, maybe 4 for sub integration, and both IIR and FIR filters.)

Hi Brian,

I agree and as some know have been promoting such, but the selection for external x-overs, is limited.

To my knowledge TACT is not and cannot be used as an external X-over.

DEQX is having growth problems and seems less than progressive.

Haven't looked at Behringer lately, maybe they are getting up to speed. (anyone know)

It seems that most designers prefer Passives (even outboards) but I might think that is because they don't have a solid group of products from which to choose, and the development of those that do exist are rather slow.

If anyone has any "new technology" that has promise, please send (or post) it along.

marklivia · « **Reply #38 on:** 13 Oct 2007, 08:38 pm »

A high quality battery powered cd transport for not a whole lotta $.

NealH · « **Reply #39 on:** 13 Oct 2007, 10:14 pm »

carbon fiber enclosures...or some new composite material that is light and non-resonant....and cheap.