Help choosing an AV receiver please

warnerwh · « **on:** 5 Sep 2003, 09:15 pm »

I need to get a receiver to integrate into my stereo/home theater system. Two main requirements are:
1. Must have pre outs at least for the RF/LF.
2. It's gotta be happy with 4 ohm loads.
It will only be used to power the center and the surrounds but I would like at least 100 wpc. Something under about 450 would be nice, new or used. I realize it is not going to be of much quality but all it has to do is play a movie about once a week and still work for a few years. Features I could care less about as long as it handles DD, DTS etc. Any help is appreciated. Thank You

bubba966 · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 10:26 pm »

This should probably be in the HT & Video area. So Rob might move it there.

Anyway the Denon's & Pioneer Elite's would both serve you well. I've found the Pioneer's to be easier/friendlier to use.

I know the Pioneer's better, so I'll list a few that you should be able to find in your price range that'll easily do what you're asking.

Used you should be able to find a VSX-24TX, VSX-26TX, VSX-27TX(maybe), VSX-33TX, VSX-35TX (maybe), VSX-43TX

Your best bet used probably would be a VSX-26TX .

You can also find a VSX-41TX new for $425 at http://www.soundpros.com

I'll let Rob or someone else that's more familiar with the Denon's give you an idea of what'd fit your needs in their lineup.

FWIW, I've owned a VSX-26TX & VSX-39TX. They both handle my M&K's 4 ohm loads plenty fine. I can crank it loud enough that I have to leave the room, and the Pioneer's don't seem to mind at all. And that's driving all 5 speakers at 4 ohms, not just 3 as you'll be using.

Marbles · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 10:30 pm »

I second the Elites, especially if you can find the VSX27TX.

bubba966 · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 10:47 pm »

Yeah, if you could find a VSX-27TX for around $500 that'd be a hell of a deal on a very nice receiver.

You're probably more likely to find a VSX-26TX (the next model down from the 27TX during the same model year) for about $400-$500. And the VSX-27TX's seem a bit more uncommon as most people either went mid-line (VSX-26TX), or top line (VSX-29TX) as the jump in price between a 27TX & 26TX was significant. But the 29TX wasn't too much more than the 27TX was.

BradJudy · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 10:48 pm »

The H/K AVR-520 fits your bill and since it's been replaced by the 525 it can be bought for under $500 (some places still have new ones around - you can get a refurb direct from harmanaudio.com for $500 or for $600 you can get a refurb AVR-7000 which is 100W@8ohms). It has both pre-outs and main-ins for all 5 channels so you'd just have to pull the jumpers for the mains. It has no problem with 4 ohms and is rated at 75W@8ohms.

Woodsea · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 12:28 am »

I second the H/K. I swear by H/K and Brian swears by his Pioneer. To each his own. The H/K 520 is powering my home theater just fine. 4 ohms, without a problem.

warnerwh · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 03:24 pm »

Thank you guys for the help. My receiver knowledge is pretty much nil these days. Found this on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3045577779
A Pioneer Elite VSX 41 for less than 400 shipped. Brand new with warranty.

Marbles · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 03:46 pm »

I'm not familiar with that particular model, but you should know that ALL Elite receivers that I've seen rate their wattage into 6 Ohm loads, not 8 like most other receivers do.

So that 110 watts per would not be equivalant to others who rate theirs at 110 into 8, it would be more like 82 wpc for the Elite.

Kind of sneaky on Pioneers part if you ask me........

warnerwh · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 03:58 pm »

Good point Marbles, I think that's sneaky too. How about the Kenwood VR 7070 which is THX certified. Also what are the requirements to be THX certified?

bubba966 · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 04:05 pm »

True, the 110w rating is for 6 ohms. But as you'll be running it at 4 ohms you'll be in the 130-140 watt ballpark.

I'd be looking at a Denon before I'd even think about a Kenwood.

Is there something you're not fond of with that Elite VSX-41TX?

Marbles · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 04:37 pm »

Bubba, I don't know it at all, so I can't comment on it one way or another.

If he asked about the 26, 27, 29, 36, 37, 39, 47 I would have been very happy to expound on their virtues.

I think the 41 is the bottom of the line right now, is that right?

Also, one problem with the 27, 29's is that after a year or two a solder joint on the original digital board would occaissionaly crack.

This would cause problems until it was fixed or that board replaced.

All in all a pretty wonderful sounding unit IMO.

bubba966 · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 04:47 pm »

True, the 41TX is currently the bottom of the line Elite. But it's not bad, especially for $369.

But it doesn't sound like he needs too many of the added features of the higher up Elites. So a 41TX or 43TX should be fine for his uses.

Though I did see a few of the 43TX's on eBay for $480 something. I think that'd be a better way to go.

I've not had any problem with either of my Elites. Both the 26TX & the 39TX have been great for me. They both have gotten nearly constant use day in and day out and have never even hiccupped.

Marbles · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 04:50 pm »

Quote from: bubba966

True, the 110w rating is for 6 ohms. But as you'll be running it at 4 ohms you'll be in the 130-140 watt ballpark.

I'd be looking at a Denon before I'd even think about a Kenwood.

Is there something you're not fond of with that Elite VSX-41TX?

A few nits to pick....the load is dependant on the frequency played, so a 4 ohm rated speaker might be playing at 2-16 ohms depending.

The Pioneer should double its output with the load going from 8 to 4, but it doesn't mean it does. In fact unless you measure it, you won't know because I don't think they have listed the 4 ohm stats.

Lastly, 80 watts per channel SHOULD be enough for most people for HT IF they offload <80hz to a subwoofer, and IF their speakers are reasonably effecient, and IF the room is not obscenely big, and IF they don't want hearing damage.

As always YMMV.

warnerwh · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 04:53 pm »

I'm just trying to figure out what's the best deal in my price range. The fact that Pioneer rates these at six ohms instead of 8 runs against my grain, it's still an option. I've got a pocket full of cash and going to go shopping.

bubba966 · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 05:13 pm »

When I had the VSX-26TX (which is rated at 100w at 8 ohms) I could crank it as I pleased on 4 ohm speakers.

I can still do the same on my 39TX (120w at 6 ohms).

I actually just looked up the VSX-41 & VSX-43TX in an Elite catalog.

The 41 is 110w x 6 at 8 ohms and the 43TX is 100W x 7 at 8 ohms

So apparently there's only some of their models they spec at 6 ohms, while others are 8 ohms.

Look at a 43TX for under $500 if you can find one. That is if you want a new one.

bubba966 · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 05:31 pm »

Ok, I was looking at the differences between the VSX-41 & VSX-43TX a bit more and saw that there's a huge difference between the two.

The 43TX is a big step up over the 41. The 41 only has Re-EQ while the 43TX is THX select certified. The 43TX has MCACC (Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration System) while the 41 doesn't. The 41 is a 6 channel receiver, the 43TX is 7 channel. The 41 has 96/24 D/A while the 43TX is 192/24 D/A. The 43TX does DTS 96/24, the 41 does not. The 41 weighs 23 pounds, the 43TX weighs 38 pounds. The 43TX has a better remote than the 41. And there's many more differences that'd take forever to list.

After a closer examination I can't really rec' the VSX-41 when the VSX-43TX can be had for $120 more. I wouldn't even bother with the VSX-41. I was under the impression that the entry level Elite wasn't so far off of the next up in the line. But apparently that's not the case. I guess I've spent more time looking at the 49TXi & 47TX as I need the AC-3 RF input that only those two models have.

warnerwh · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 06:44 pm »

bubba: Thanks for the research. You're right, those are pretty big differences for the money. I can get one shipped to me for 530 on Ebay. Thanks much for the help. That's what I was looking/hoping for. It's a done deal. If you're ever in Portland let me know, I owe you dinner.

bubba966 · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 09:50 pm »

Quote from: warnerwh

If you're ever in Portland let me know, I owe you dinner.

Sounds good to me.

Seriously though, enjoy the 43TX. It should do you quite well.

Marbles · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 10:28 pm »

Sorry about that...the Elites I have seen were all rated into 6 Ohms...maybe they caught enough flack that they changed that

Hantra · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 10:31 pm »

Don't want to get in trouble here, but I have a new 520 for sale. It won't fit in my TV stand.

I just bought the little Sony AV50ES

PM me for details. .

B