[Vinyl-Addict]

I was going to measure an exact amount for each cavity, but I also have had second thoughts about doing it. Thanks for putting on the breaks for me, Vinyl Addict.

My new concern is the lack of VTA on the REGA P3. I see there are add-on VTA adjustment devices, but in the case of the standard REGA BIAS cartridge, the tonearm needs to go down, which it can't do. The problem is that the hydraulic arm lift will only lift the arm a small amount, putting the stylus very close to the record surface if I could lower the arm pivot or put a shim between the cartridge and tone arm head.

I have measured the pivot height from plinth to pivot bearings and the dimension is 1.625". The distance to the centerline of the tone arm at the cartridge is 1.50". That means over about 8" of length, I have a .125" downward incline towards the cartridge. That is about .895 degrees which means my rake angle is now 20.895 degrees insted of the normal 20 degree. I do think I see a slope in the cast head portion of the tonearm that may have a draft in it. Maybe the designers put a negative draft in correcting it back to 20 degrees. The whole arm is investment cast. It is cool, don't get me wrong. The arm is fantastic. I just need to understand some of the geometry that went into the design.

My AT cartridge came in the mail yesterday and I may have to measure it's overall height compared to the BIAS to see if it will even work. Right now when I lift the tone arm with the cue, I'm only .125" away from the record surface, so you may see "Houston, we have a problem".

On a slightly different note, what moron wrote the "manual" for the Rega turntables? There are suggestions to the order of "don't clean your records as it is a waste of time".....what? There is almost zero information on any piece of paper. They did let the cat out of the bag and tell me indirectly that the distance from pivot to spindle is 222mm (8.74"). That's good, 'cause now I can build and alignment card.

I'll use baerwald's calculator to figure the correct tow-in at that distance.

I also like my mat over the standard felt mat. Yes, they are the same thickness. I guess for now, except doing a small repair job on the audio cables, I'm going to listen to it for awhile and see where it stands in a week or so before I try my next tweak.

If you got more ideas, keep'em comin'.

Wayner

Wayne, Are you aware that the cuing platform is adjustable via a tiny allen wrench? I think it's a .050 allen.

[TONEPUB]

got a great deal on a very slightly used Rega Apheta cartridge if you are
interested, just PM me....

[Wayner]

Vinyl Addict,

I didn't until now! I'm going to take the arm off this morning and fit it with a new AT440MLa for the duration. I will then take the REGA cartridge to my jeweler friend for a look see at the stylus. He has a really good scope.

Thanks for the info that the REGA "manual" didn't mention....I should say I can't read most of it as the printing is faded out.

Thanks!

Wayner

[Nels Ferre]

I was going to measure an exact amount for each cavity, but I also have had second thoughts about doing it. Thanks for putting on the breaks for me, Vinyl Addict.

My new concern is the lack of VTA on the REGA P3. I see there are add-on VTA adjustment devices, but in the case of the standard REGA BIAS cartridge, the tonearm needs to go down, which it can't do. The problem is that the hydraulic arm lift will only lift the arm a small amount, putting the stylus very close to the record surface if I could lower the arm pivot or put a shim between the cartridge and tone arm head.

I have measured the pivot height from plinth to pivot bearings and the dimension is 1.625". The distance to the centerline of the tone arm at the cartridge is 1.50". That means over about 8" of length, I have a .125" downward incline towards the cartridge. That is about .895 degrees which means my rake angle is now 20.895 degrees insted of the normal 20 degree. I do think I see a slope in the cast head portion of the tonearm that may have a draft in it. Maybe the designers put a negative draft in correcting it back to 20 degrees. The whole arm is investment cast. It is cool, don't get me wrong. The arm is fantastic. I just need to understand some of the geometry that went into the design.

My AT cartridge came in the mail yesterday and I may have to measure it's overall height compared to the BIAS to see if it will even work. Right now when I lift the tone arm with the cue, I'm only .125" away from the record surface, so you may see "Houston, we have a problem".

On a slightly different note, what moron wrote the "manual" for the Rega turntables? There are suggestions to the order of "don't clean your records as it is a waste of time".....what? There is almost zero information on any piece of paper. They did let the cat out of the bag and tell me indirectly that the distance from pivot to spindle is 222mm (8.74"). That's good, 'cause now I can build and alignment card.

I'll use baerwald's calculator to figure the correct tow-in at that distance.

I also like my mat over the standard felt mat. Yes, they are the same thickness. I guess for now, except doing a small repair job on the audio cables, I'm going to listen to it for awhile and see where it stands in a week or so before I try my next tweak.

If you got more ideas, keep'em comin'.

Wayner

Wayner,

A few things I've thought of:

1. You mention the Rega Bias cartridge. Yours is definitely not a Bias, as the Bias did not have the 3 point mounting system for alignment. I know this for sure, as I had a Planar 2 with a Bias years ago. (I still use the RB-250 arm from that setup today.)  It may be a Super Bias, I'm not 100% sure on that. In any event, the Bias and Elys line all track at 1.75 grams VTF. (Edit:  The Bias had a green front- I still believe you have an Elys.)

2. Roy Gandy, the Head Honcho at Rega is the "moron" that says not to clean your LPs. He believes that the stylus tip does the cleaning while the record is playing. I disagree with him, as I'm sure most here will.

3. Roy Gandy has his own ideas as well as far as cartridge alignment. His alignment scheme, if I remember correctly is designed with the null point much more towards the label area. This kind of makes sense. If the alignment is closer to perfect towards the center, then you shold get better tracking there, which is the most difficult point of the LP to track in the first place.  Check your 3 point system with any other alignment guage, you'll see the difference.

[Wayner]

Thanks Nels.

Well, not cleaning the records is just wrong. I found some more information on the Vinyl Engine about the RB300 arm. There are some more bizarre comments by Roy in that as well. Things like "anti-skating is not critical" and "under no circumstances adjust the arm to achieve a hypothetical correct V.T.A." What? How can someone design nice tables like these and have this belief system? Roy, vinyl is cut with a 20 degree rake angle and I'd like to be there. No VTA adjustment? I've also proven, at least to myself that proper anti-skating is critical for tracking, as I have witnessed things go haywire when not set up correctly.

As far a single null point towards the label using the Enjoythemusic.com Excel spreadsheet calculator, the 222mm pivot to spindle distance doesn't look pretty, either. It looks like the toe-in angle is about 15.5 degrees at least that is the lowest distortion curve I can get. The beginning grooves of the record have terrible curves with these values.

I have installed the Audio Technica AT440MLa into the P3 and so far at least listening to Kraftwerk, Computer world, it beats the crap out of whatever Rega cartridge that was in there. Yes, I think Kraftwerk is the goofiest band I've ever heard, but the record is a good test record and the wife grunges when she hears it  .

I will fiddle more this afternoon.

Thanks again for all the input.

W

[Wayner]

Does anybody know pivot to stylus distance. I ass-u-med it was 9.00" (228.6mm) but actually looks more like 9.312" (236.5mm). That data make a very nice curve on the Baerwald chart using a 20.5 degree offset angle.

W

[Vinyl-Addict]

Does anybody know pivot to stylus distance. I ass-u-med it was 9.00" (228.6mm) but actually looks more like 9.312" (236.5mm). That data make a very nice curve on the Baerwald chart using a 20.5 degree offset angle.

W

Wayne, The effective length (pivot to stylus) given a 222mm spindle to pivot would be between 239mm/240mm. It really depends on how accurate you have measured the spindle to pivot distance and whether you are using Baerwald, Loefgren, or Stephenson method of alignment. Keep in mind that there is enough clearance in the hole in the plinth to make a noticable error in this sp. to pivot distance so I always measure spindle to pivot as accurate as I can first, then add overhang and I'm happy with the effective length at that point. I made an adjustable 2 point gauge to measure sp. to pivot, FWIW.

[Wayner]

I have measured fairly well and the 222mm (8.74") is really close. I have to assume that the table came from the factory with the arm on it considering its young age. What I did to get my current setting is mark 2 dots and a piece of paper with the spindle hole in it from the Rega cartridge. Then when I put in the AT, I matched the 2 dots.

Good information for the overall length. You've helped me out quite a bit here and I'm getting worried about the bar bill  .

W

[Wayner]

Time for the latest report.

If you are new at getting into vinyl, might I suggest the Rega P3 with an Audio Technica AT440MLa? I'm hearing things that I don't think the Empire can retrieve. I have complicated the problem by my new cable invention, but that is a different story. I now can hear 3D sound with 2 speakers in any position in the room. the lower the volume (to a degree) the more shocking the ambiance.

W 

[doug s.]

i still say it's the tonearm - great arm mounted on a so-so deck.  mount it on the empire & see what happens...   

doug s.

Time for the latest report.

If you are new at getting into vinyl, might I suggest the Rega P3 with an Audio Technica AT440MLa? I'm hearing things that I don't think the Empire can retrieve. I have complicated the problem by my new cable invention, but that is a different story. I now can hear 3D sound with 2 speakers in any position in the room. the lower the volume (to a degree) the more shocking the ambiance.

W 

[jimdgoulding]

The Origin mod for the Rega 250 and 300 arms has gotten some heavy press at places like TNT Audio and some British mags excerpted on this site: www.tonearm.co.uk.  Tis not cheap but the raves are wholly tempting.  I think the mod includes a mounting collar for ease and finer increments of height adjustment.  More places than this offer one kind of upgrade or another using Cardas or Incognito wire, etc. and are here in the US, but it's that British one that has my fancy.  Check it out.