[vett93]

Alan, can you please explain why it would take weeks for PEs to stabilize, without revealing too much of your trade secrets? I am an EE and was even a TA for Power System course when I was in the grad school. I would think it should take seconds for the capacitance and inductance to stabilize, instead of minutes, hours, days, or weeks?? But apparently, you are right.

I think I have pretty good power cords already. Which one of the following cords do you think I should try your power cord first?

CD player: LessLoss filtering power cord
External power supply for the analog section of CD player: Tel Wire
Preamp: VH Audio Flavor 4
Amp: Black Sand Silver Reference
Shunyata PLC: LessLoss filtering power cord

They are on a dedicated 20A circuit. I have a pair of Shunyata outlets (cryo'ed Hubbell) in series configuration. On the first duplex, the AC source goes in the upper outlet (#1) and the lower outlet (#2) is wired to the upper outlet (#3) of the 2nd duplex. I plugged in the PE V S/AC on #1 outlet.

 I found that it sounds better if I plug the PLC into #3, instead of #2. It sounds a bit brighter on #3.

Will it further improve my system if I plug in more of your products into #2 or #4?

BTW, when is the end of summer for you? I am thinking to upgrade my speaker cables next. The impedance of my speakers drops to 3.2ohms from their nominal 8ohms for lower frequencies. My speaker cables, JPS Superconductor+ Petite, do not handle that well.

[alanmaher]

  I'm not going to reveal any trade secrets.  The PE is an active circuit.  What does that mean?  It means the PE interacts with the circuit wiring, duplex outlet, component powercord, power supply, and just about everything else plugged into the same side of the circuit panel as the PE. 

Power cord selection is very simple, start with the component closest to the main duplex outlet.  The component could be a power conditioner, power strip, or CD player.  In you set up you have a Hydra PLC, I would recommend listening to the system with and without the Hydra before looking at power cord selection.  Another option is to forget power cord tuning and attack the source with the PE V IEC filter.  The V IEC removes power cord coloration from the equation and provides the power supply with a rock solid supply for filtered a/c and passive power factor correction.

The S/AC is recommended for brighter placement on the circuit.  Additional S/AC units installed into 2 and 4 will continue to add improvement.  I suggest to add the filters in stages, try 1 S/AC plugged into 2 next.  Instead of adding another filter to 3, I would definitely look a couple V IEC filters for the CD player and external power supply before adding anything else.

The end of the summer will be a tight squeeze for me.  I would like to have things out by the 3rd week of August, don't know yet it is still up in the air.  The designs will definitely be released before or on Labor Day weekend.

[zmanbands]

None of my system has balanced connectors. I have one outlet left on my RPC which is connected to my dedicated 20 amp hardwired outlet. Would I plug the PEV S/AC into that?

[vett93]

I plugged the amp directly to #2 without the PLC (which is on #3). Then I noticed slightly increased noise around the edges of sound. The background was not as dark as with the PLC. So I think my Shunyata PLC is doing something good in my configuration.

My Shunyata PLC is Guardian not Hydra. Hydra is a higher end model and offers good filtering among the outlets. My Guardian has much less inter-outlet filtering.

Will adding a PE V IEC overload the Shunyata PLC as you indicated before? In a previous posted, you indicated that adding a PE on the Shunyata might overload it.

Can you give a preview of your speaker cable? Why is it better than other designs?

[Huck]

Huck, I assume the cassette deck is used 1980 also. If that sounds better than your 3.2K CD player, you may have a problem with the CD or its IC. My brother recently threw away his Nakamichi and all his tapes. What CD do you have and what year?

Thanks! I have a Copland CDA-823 (2006) with Grover UR-8 interconnects.Thanks, Huck
Here:http://www.divertech.com/copland.html

[Huck]

Huck

I would install a 4th PE into a source component outlet.  This application will offer isolation for the selected component. 


Thanks! I have six 15 amp Hubbell hospital grade outlets, all bottom wired, controlled by it's own circuit breaker. Here is what is plugged in each duplex.
 #1- desk lamp (top)
 #2- Empty
 #3- SVS powered subwoofer (TOP), PE (Bottom)
#4-  Furman power conditioner(Top), PE( Bottom)
     Also PE plugged into rear of Furman
 #5- Empty
 #6- Sony RPTV(Top), PE (Bottom). I think this is where you said to place the fourth PE? Thanks!
   

[alanmaher]

zmanbands

The S/AC should be installed into the first receptacle on the RPC next to the power cord inlet.


vett93

I hate to ask a dumb question, but did you allow the amp power supply to stabilize over a 4 or 5 day period after it was installed into 2?  If I understand the Hydra circuit, I think they use either a .47uf or .1uf across each receptacle....if that is correct, a standard PE offers 3 to 5 times the filtering, maybe you should consider adding a PE to the amp duplex.   

I don't think one IEC filter will hurt the Shunyata because of the location of the filter to the PLC.  A PE plugged directly into the Shunyata might cause an overload, it's a trial and error process, but the IEC filter will be closer to the component providing direct filtering, I don't think it will be a major problem for the PLC.  I use isolation transformers, and I have 3 of the larger Pro filters on the secondary with zero problems.  Plugged directly into the PLC the sound quality does become a little dark, but when placed near the component the dark character disappears and mimics the normal direct sound quality of the filter.

Can I give a preview????  It is based on the Reference geometry.  How does it compare????  I hate comparing the product line with other manufactured designs, the best thing I can say is it mimics our signature sound.  Right now the design will be 8ga copper/Teflon, but we are playing around with plated and pure silver/fiberglass insulated wiring to see if we can extend the bandwidth.  Price and consumer interest will dictate the final design.   


Huck

Plug another PE into the desk lamp duplex.  If possible, plug the 6th PE into the Furman.

[vett93]

Well, guess I am the one with the dumb answer. No I did not wait for 4 or 5 days. 

I waited for about 1 day and decided that it was not good. What you said about 4-5 days wait makes sense. I plugged in my 4th PE on one of the outlets on APC power line conditioner for my HT. It shares the same filter bank with the HDTV. In the first few days, TV looked worse and SAT receiver had problems sending signal to the surround decoder reliably. After 4-5 days, it has stabilized.

Back to my 2-ch system. I understand that PE has to plug in the outlet that AC lines enters. On my 2nd duplex (which is side-by-side with the first duplex), the AC enters the upper outlet. Can I plug in a PE on the upper outlet but point upward? Then I can plug the power cord for the PLC on the lower outlet (#4).

[Huck]

Huck

Plug another PE into the desk lamp duplex.  If possible, plug the 6th PE into the Furman

 Thanks! I already have a PE plugged in the back of the Furman, so are you saying to add one more? Thanks, Huck

[alanmaher]

vett93

"Can I plug in a PE on the upper outlet but point upward?"

No.  I can build you a PE-R which is a PE with reverse wiring, but a standard PE will sound like $&%t with the polarity reversed on the circuit.

Most people make the same mistake, we really try to explain the importance of allowing the component power supply to adjust to the new install location and compare the interaction.  The PE highlights the placement allowing the user to test the component install location on the circuit for best overall performance.  In other words, some components, pending the power supply design, will sound different in outlet 1 compared to 3 on the same circuit.  The PE is the perfect tool to allow the user to test this theory, and allow the user to fine tune the location for better interaction between the power supplies, at the same time fine tune the filters as well.  Not all systems have multiple points of electrical entry so the component placement concept is moot for most, but it still applies for PE installation.

"SAT receiver had problems sending signal to the surround decoder reliably."

A good example to show how the PE interacts and effects the entire electrical circuit.  A better example is to measure the circuit strength (component output) before and after to see if there is any change in voltage.  It has been reported, and I have also experienced the same thing with sat signal, after the PE sets up the signal strength usually increases.  Some consumer claims are a little farfetched with reports of 25% and 30% boosts in signal performance, and I have never experienced anything that severe in performance enhancement, but I have noticed a +4 / +5db increase in signal strength with a single PE install.  PE install closer to the component obviously offers better performance when the circuit and electrical wiring are taken out of the equation.  It takes the PE about 7 to 10 days to stabilize the circuit, after the circuit stabilizes the PE will begin to store excess voltage and will quickly release the voltage during dip periods of the day, another reason why many claim late evening performance 24 hours a day after PE install.  The PE is not a replacement for a UPS and it does not deal with brownouts, but it can help with +/-3v swings over the coarse of the day.  Adding more PE's obviously provides better voltage stability because they can be strategically placed throughout the phase to address problem applications, create a filtered moat around the circuit, and act as a voltage reservoir to eliminate crosstalk interactions due to power fluctuations and increased circuit resistance, or on the other side of the coin, prevent transformer over voltage interactions; hum, buzzing, mechanical magnetic vibration, etc.


Huck

You can add as many PE's as you have components, but you will reach a point where the PE overloads the smaller filtered circuit, which is why I have you adding one PE at a time to make sure the PE doesn't compress the circuit because of an interaction problem between the filter caps.  In other words, if the Furman used the same filter design I would tell you to add as many PE's as your heart desired because the circuit would continue to improve without negative side effects, but that advice is difficult to provide when the other manufacture uses a different filter concept / design.  Too many of the same value capacitors used to support the circuit will create a narrowband compression of harmonics, the compression will create an electrical crossover slope on the circuit, this is the worse thing that could ever happen to the a/c because it now introduces a magnetic imbalance which creates resistance and voltage stability problems.  The PE approach is not to roll anything off, instead create a flat and neutral response from all the harmonics on the circuit, including the harmonics created by wiring and component power supplies.  Doing so allows the a/c to move throughout the phase unrestricted and provides a more even playing field for total phase power factor correction.  Correct PFC becomes a problem when circuits are not driven to spec and power supplies interact.  The PE erases the imbalance and provides a neutral electrical environment, but the amount of PE's required will be dictated by the circuit spec vs. component draw.  The voltage stability problem due to the Furman interaction is the exact reason why I asked you to spot test each PE location on the same circuit and non-a/v circuits that share the same side of the circuit panel.  As I mentioned above, if the Furman was not part of the equation the cautious approach to install would not apply, but I'm trying to make sure we balance the phase in multiple locations in order not to throw the Furman out of whack and allow it to continue to contribute to the overall sound quality.  In this set up we are asking the PE to enhance instead of acting as the main filter.  Without the Furman in the loop the PE would act as the main filter, additional PE's would enhance, and the total PE package would provide power factor correction.  I think where everyone confuses the flat response element of the PE description is dealing with the placement.  Every single PE install should sound flat or neutral to the stereo location on the same circuit or connected circuits.  The install location vs. the system will dictate the harmonic neutral character.  Just because there are open outlets on the same circuit doesn't mean a PE should be installed into it....the PE should always be installed in the same outlet as system or in between the circuit breaker / fuse and the system outlet.  It is a very easy to tell which outlet comes before and after the system outlet.  PE installed in between will provide a brighter upper midrange and treble response after about 15 minutes.  Installed after the system outlet the PE will provide a warmer balance, but the warmth is not considered a good thing, it originates from a magnetic interaction along the length of the in-wall wiring.  The magnetic interaction increases inductance at the system outlet and can cause resistance or voltage drops because it alters the frequency balance of the intended PE circuit and interacts differently with the system component power supply.  Try to use these tips when you spot test locations, as I mentioned before, I can't physically be there to hear the differences and my placement opinions should mean zippie do da because I can't be there to test the harmonic balance.  But if the user understands what to look for in a PE install, then they don't need to rely on me opinion for each install.  It is a trial and error process...all we ask is to allow the new filter to set up 10 to 12 days before testing the next location.

[solda]

Alan
I was looking at installing a 193m choke on the iec inlet of the my sony 777es SACD.  The problem is I run the sony SACD with the ac inverted polarity (per crump and bound for sound tweak).  Do I need to reverse the leads on the choke. Should I use a 193m or 193L. Thanks for the help.

[alanmaher]

It depends....why are you reversing the polarity?  Did you measure the voltage and it's high, or is this some kind of audiophile tweak suggestion?  Let me be the first to say reversing the polarity, if not required, is very dangerous.  I don't advise the idea...you would be better off installing the choke at the iec with the proper polarity or one of our IEC filters.  The V IEC offers superb performance with SACD players....and a huge leap forward in resolution. 

[Huck]

Thanks! Good information! Huck

[zmanbands]

FWIW Kieth. I replaced a 193L IEC choke with the PE V IEC. Big improvement over the choke. I put the choke on my computer outlet.

[solda]

Alan - The conversation started some time back when Bob Crump was still alive. He pointed out that many of the sony sacd 1 and 777es had inverted polarity. Bound for Sound also featured a column "tweak of the week" talking about inverted ac polarity on components. After using the multi-meter, I got a lower reading with the polarity inverted...so I diy'd a power cord with inverted polarity. I was going to install the choke at the iec end of the power cord.  1. do you think I shouldn't invert the polarity on the power cord. 2. should I used a pe instead of the choke.  Thanks for all the great advice!

[alanmaher]

solda

You are talking about the tweak that works for some and not for all.  The reverse polarity tweak came about from manufactures screwing up on the assembly line, every once in awhile a 2 prong power cord would be soldered to the power board backwards.  The answer to your question is very easy, open the SACD player and take a look at the a/c input.  The board will be marked with a H and N to represent hot and neutral.  Trace the neutral lead from the solder joint all the way down to the a/c plug and make sure the board polarity is wired properly.  Fix if needed.

Yes a PE V IEC would be a nice upgrade for the SACD player.

[alanmaher]

NEWS: New Reference HDMI 1.3 cable will be available in multiple lengths sometime in the next 5 to 6 weeks.  We have tested our prototype against many popular designs and are super pleased with the results (see specs below).  Prices will be set around $75 for a 3 foot cable. 

Just to give a little background, we tested the cable digital audio performance against several cables costing upwards of $900 to $1000 that we have collected over the years.  The Reference HDMI has a very nice warm balance, excellent sound stage depth, tight and tuneful bass, and sweet highs that soar forever.....in all honesty it performed very well against digital cables costing around $550 to $600. 

On the video side I didn't want to spend the bucks on HDMI cables that cost as much as a midsize car payment, so I stuck to cables priced roughly in the same price range (up to $300 for a 15' cable) we are looking to market the Reference cable.  Looking at both generic and audio/videophile cables, the Reference either held it's own or surpassed the performance by a wide margin.  We used 15 foot cables for all testing and viewing sessions.  In this category the new Reference equaled or outperformed HDMI cables priced around the $250 to $300 price range, the cheaper priced cables (under $250) were easily outclassed in the area of color saturation, depth, and definition.  The audio performance of the Reference HDMI 1.3 is in a class by itself at the suggested price and up to the max cable price tested.  None of the cables tested equaled the digital audio performance of the Reference HDMI 1.3.   

Specifications:

- Reference HDMI supports 1.3b spec and is backward compatible with v. 1.1 and 1.2
- PRT treated for superior signal transfer
- Shakti Innovations passive RFI/EMI filtering (passive filtering from 120 KHz to 1.5 GHz)
- Black mesh jacket
- Gold plated copper connectors
- Triple shielded
- Supports 1080p/24 as well as the new HDTV's that have the 1080p/120 option to support 24 FPS
- Supports 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p and up to 1440p resolutions
- Supports computer resolutions up to WQXGA or 2560x1600
- Reference HDMI 1.3 increased single-link bandwidth from 165 MHz (4.95 gigabits per second)
   to 387 MHz (over 10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future high definition display devices
- HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from 24-bit
   depths in previous versions of HDMI specification
-  HDMI 1.3 supports LipSync technology. Its automatic video/audio synching capability
   allows devices to perform video/audio synchronization with total accuracy.
- HDMI 1.3 supports current high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio (Dolby Digital and
   DTS) and new lossless compressed digital audio formats: Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD.
- HDMI 1.3 supports up to 1080p and is ready for the upcoming resolution format
- Conductor wires are 24ga 6N copper to support 1440p up to 15 feet.  Over 15 feet we use 22ga to
   support lengths up to 100 feet
- UL CL2 rated for new room / home / in wall installations
- HDCP compliant

Available Length: 3, 6, 10, 15, 25, 50 ft.  Longer cables will be available at a later date.  We expect lengths up to 100 feet without requiring a in-line booster.  We will also be releasing a Silver Reference design (silver plated copper conductors) based off the same cable design in the fall that looks very promising.  Jen will have more info on the Silver Reference sometime in early October.

Reference HDMI 1.3: http://alanmaherdesigns.com/HDMI.aspx

The cable takes about 2 hours after it is first installed for the magnetic field within the cable geometry to stabilize in the circuit, after it sets up the picture quality is really stunning.

[Occam]

Solda,

As Alan states, if there is a miswiring of a cord as he described, it should be fixed so that the switch and fuse are acting on hot line are fufilling their intended function.

But Bob Crump's comments referred to a totally different matter, specifically, the minimization of reactive leakage currents to the chassis. He found that although the entry of the powercord on the Parasound HCA3500 amplifier was wired properly with regards to fusing and switching, its simply didn't sound as expected in comparison to the prototypes developed by the Curl/Crump/Thompson team. The fix was to reverse the polaraity of the power transformer primary leads to minimize reactive leakage from that transformer.

In addition to the BFS article you referred to -
http://boundforsound.com/tweak.htm

Jon Risch addressed this issue in some detail -
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/36909.html

And now for my cautionary comments, not specifically adressed to you, but to others who may read this response -

NEVER EVER reverse the wiring of a polarized plug, save for the specific situation that Alan mentioned above. If you wish to reverse 'hot' and 'neutral' wiring to minimize reactive leakage currents, it must be done internally to the component and that reversal must only be done after the power switch and fuse/breaker so that these still effectively act on the 'hot' line.

If you've a vintage component that has a polarized 2 prong plug, you MUST do the following test.  Check for continuity from each blade of the plug to the conductive parts of the chassis. Although its be against code for going on 40 years, some (even very good) vintage components connected the neutral to the chassis. If you find such continuity, talk to someone who is knowledgeable and competent in vintage components and don't even think about doing any reversals on your own, you will make your chassis 'live' and possibly kill yourself. (this is why balanced power is problematic on some vintage components)

There is no such thing as a 'cheater' adapter. These adapters are used to provide a grounded receptacle to an outlet that was not grounded by connecting the wire or metal tag to a grounded screw on the outlet box. If you know what you are doing, these adapters are useful for temporary diagnostic purposes ONLY.

FWIW,
Paul

[solda]

Paul and Alan
Thanks for the advice.  I'm not really interested in switching the wires coming off the transformer on the 777es, I was hoping to using something simpler with a power cord...so I guess I'll use a power cord with normal polarity.  Thanks again for the help!

[zmanbands]

Day 16 for the PE V IEC and additional Non audio PE and Day 19 for the RPG and Ref. One filter. Resolution is still yet noticeably higher say 10 to 15 %. Its like adding a new tweak every 5 days. Every Cd I put on is a new rendering from what I remember! In a week or so I should be getting a PE V S/AC to install in my RPC to keep the ball rolling. Alan estimates a couple more notches of resolution from that. BTW Alan this last listen sounds about 3 to 4 db louder than before. Does that make sense?