[alanmaher]

vett93

Are you sending the filter back or do you opt for the DIY wire swap?

The system can benefit from the Pro Custom if you remove the Shunyata Guardian 6.  The Guardian doesn't really have a lot of internal filtering, it will definitely benefit from the S/AC installed at the wall.  I'm not sure plugging a filter into the Shunyata is the right answer, I would be afraid of overloading the internal circuit.

All the PE's are 2 pole...the pic on the web site is a manufacture stock photo.  I'm sure we have covered that one many times in this tread

As for the LessLoss product, I have no idea what it is and can't comment.  As far as the European designs are concerned I'm fairly familiar with a majority of them, but the high-end models never make it into my arena.  I'm sure the European Audiophile guys are all over it, but I haven't come across any in the studios I service. 




NOTE:  All defective S/AC units are accounted and in the process of being returned or fixed.  Thank-you all for your understanding.  Out of 67 filters mailed out last week only 4 were defective.  To date we have mailed out 1648 PE's, 107 S/AC, 28 V Pro Customs, 12 V IEC, and 9 V Pro IEC....only 7 returned (incompatibility / non-defective) and 4 defective in the last 12 months.

[alanmaher]

2 PE's left in stock. 

4 Reference Power Cords in stock.

Everything else is sold out.  Parts on the way...the next pre-order date starts July 28.

[zmanbands]

Alan, the RPC you mailed Monday, got here today in 4 days. Is that a record for the post office? For some strange reason, I noticed I had a PE IV on an extension cord between my Belkin and the ref. power cord on my power amp. Should I give the PE IV its own plug on the RPC and plug the power amp directly into the RPC? I'm using the outlet farthest from the RPC power cord on the RPC for "warmth". Is that correct? Everything else is plugged in willy nilly since the rest of the components can be in any plug. IS THAT CORRECT??  Too soon to judge the installed RPC after the system was down for 45 minutes while putting it in.

[alanmaher]

Try the IV and see what you think, it's such a strange fish with it's interaction that I rather you try it in and out and see how it response after 15 or 20 minutes.  Many have reported about the IV and Ref One filter working good together, but I have never tried it.  Try the first outlet near the power cord inlet and see how the IV response.  Keep in mind the RPC is just like your Reference cords and require 30 to 35 days before sounding at almost it's best...a full break in is around 45 days give or take a day.

The components can be installed in any plug and sound identical.

The RPC already provides good warmth, I don't think installing the filter at the end is a smart move...might be too much of a good thing...install in the first outlet as recommended.

Send initial report day 1, 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30.  Have fun and enjoy.

[zmanbands]

I also just installed a Ref One in a non audio circuit on the same phase as my audio. What is the break-in scrnario for it?

[vett93]

vett93

Are you sending the filter back or do you opt for the DIY wire swap?

The system can benefit from the Pro Custom if you remove the Shunyata Guardian 6.  The Guardian doesn't really have a lot of internal filtering, it will definitely benefit from the S/AC installed at the wall.  I'm not sure plugging a filter into the Shunyata is the right answer, I would be afraid of overloading the internal circuit.

Alan, I'll do the DIY wire swap. I'll email you my address for the PE.

Can you be a bit clearer on your definition of the left and right sides of the filter banks? Depending on how you view the PE V S/AC, you may get different sides. For example, if the power cord is facing downward, the left side bank is different from that if the power cord is facing upward.

I am glad to see that you are taking good steps in resolving the issues. Great sign!

[alanmaher]

zmanbands

3 days normally, but it will depend on the circuit and what's installed.  If it's a PE circuit it could take up to 10 days.


vett93

1.  Unscrew the top cover.  Remove cover and twist it over (cord side down).  You should see 2 rows of filter caps.  The left row has the white wire and the right row has the black wire.  We don't care about the black wire.

2.  Look at the filter cap with the white wire.  The white wire should be soldered to the right side of the filter cap (positioned inside).  If it is, remove the white wire and solder it to the left side of the same filter cap (positioned outside).

[alanmaher]

Just a reminder folks...I would like to have all the S/AC problems resolved before the end of the weekend.  Jen and I are going out of town for the next couple of weeks and I would like to have all of this resolved before I leave.  I still need an address from vett93 for his PE and Jim N.'s details and resolution.  I will be out of town July 16-26.


Reference Power Cord orders must be placed no later than Sunday in order to make Tuesday postal drop off.  We also have 1 Studio Reference cable (5') in stock at the sale price ($425).

[alanmaher]

Ref power cord. This is my 30 day update on these beauties. Vs. day 20 they still somehow got better in just about every way. Amazing. I have punchy bass to burn. Still more detail and realism. All the frequencies are more intimate. My brother who hasn't heard any tweaking improvement in his mind, for 3 months, finally said there is a lot more bass. He thought I did something to the sub. A lot of CD's now actually need the sub volume turned down since they over emphasised the bass during recording the CD. Jen and Alan say the Reference Power Center [RPC] packs about 4X to 5X more improvement than the Ref pwr cords. The RPC is in the mail from an early purchase. Can't wait to get it and the Ref One. WOW.

zmanbands

The sub should always be the same db in a stereo set up.  Never cross the mains and force the sub to handle everything...it's not possible if you want clean sound.  It's better to set the mains up in the peak node of the room and the sub in the null of the room for cross node cancellation.  Set the db for all channels the same at the listening position so all nodes are equal.  The idea of using a subwoofer is to extend the mains and not become it's own entity in the room...it should be seamless, super fast, articulate, tuneful, everything the mains have to offer...too much misinformation on the net for speaker set up.  I usually run the mains at full range, measure the room for the natural roll off without the sub on.  Set the sub crossover 10 Hz above the -6db natural roll off.  Now set each speaker independently at 75 db's and call it a day.  Of coarse each speaker has to be voiced, including the sub with the mains off and full range material, but it's worth the effort.

Enjoy!!!

[zmanbands]

I use the Velodyne sub only to augment the Klipsch speakers. The Klipsch go down to 35 Hz. The sub is set to kick in at 80Hz. I do have an SPL meter. I have yet to position the mains [ala a Cardas variation] as you told me since I need help to do it. But for the present does it sound like I have the sub crossing over too high? Perhaps  60 Hz would be better. Or turn the sub volume down at 80 HZ. BTW I don't see how a could turn my speakers off and have only the sub on unless I disconnected the speaker cables. No speaker volume control at the speaker

[alanmaher]

First....never route your main speakers via the subwoofer....always better to use a digital crossover if you have to roll off the mains, but you don't have to do that with your speakers.  Do you have a sub out on your preamp?  If you do that is the way to go for the subwoofer. 

If your speakers go down in the room to 35Hz, then 80Hz is way to high for the cross.  Turn the sub off and measure your main speakers using simple test tracks...you can download them from our site....start measuring both channels together around 75Hz and drop it 20Hz one test track at a time.  Find the frequency that is -6db lower than the 75Hz measurement.  Normally this should be in the 40Hz to 50Hz area.  Set the crossover 10Hz above the -6db rolloff....so you might actually set the sub at 50Hz or 55Hz. 

Note....just because the speaker spec is 35Hz doesn't mean that is all the speaker can do in your listening room.  Usually it will have a good 15Hz to 20Hz additional range to play around with, all you are concerned with is the natural room roll off, not the speaker spec.  I would measure with the SPL meter all the way down to 20Hz just to see how the room reinforces the lower range in it's current node/location.

Now measure all three channels one at a time and all full range.  Set the db output the same for left and right and +3db for the sub. 

Now set the crossover point, leave the mains at full range, and listen again and see what you think.

[zmanbands]

Day one report on RPC/Ref One sound. Belkin PLC removed. A substantial improvement already. All frequencies seem to be effected. Same old adjectives. Clearer, more articulated detail, more musical and intimate, more air around wind instruments, more live sound like you are there. very sweet. Look forward to the next 30 days. Am I the only one with an RPC? Would like to hear others findings and I'm sure Alan and Jen would too.

[alanmaher]

Several RPC's were mailed out last week....all different sizes.

[vett93]

Just a reminder folks...I would like to have all the S/AC problems resolved before the end of the weekend.  Jen and I are going out of town for the next couple of weeks and I would like to have all of this resolved before I leave.  I still need an address from vett93 for his PE and Jim N.'s details and resolution.  I will be out of town July 16-26.


Reference Power Cord orders must be placed no later than Sunday in order to make Tuesday postal drop off.  We also have 1 Studio Reference cable (5') in stock at the sale price ($425).

Thanks for the reminder, Alan. I just emailed you my address.

What are the differences between Reference Power Cord and Studio Reference Power Cord? I am considering upgrading the power cord for my CD player. Can you please make a recommendation?

I have a Denon 3910 Universal Player modified by ModWright. ModWright replaced the 2-ch output section with tubes and use an external power supply (also tubed based rectifier). Currently, I have a Shunyata Diamondback shielded power cord for the CDP and another LessLoss power cord for the external tube power supply.

My preamp is also all tubes and uses a VHAudio Flavor 4 power cord. My power amp is hybrid and uses a BlackSand Silver Reference power cord.

All of them go to a Shunyata Guardian PLC and use a LessLoss power cord to connect to the wall AC outlet.

Thank you.

[Huck]

Keith-
Plug the next PE into the PLC.
Thanks! It has been 14 days since installing two PE's, one sharing a duplex with my Furman and one plugged into the rear of the Furman. Where to put the other 5PE's Thanks, Huck

zmanbands-
Didn't you turn your system off the other day for a storm?  I mentioned at that time the cord will have to stabilize all over again.  Leave it be for the next 8 to 10 days and report your findings.

Thanks! It has been 14 days since installing the second PE, one sharing the Hubbell duplex with my Furman and one plugged into the rear of the Furman. Where do I put the other 5PE's Thanks, Huck

[alanmaher]

Huck

Try another PE, only one, on the same circuit and see what you think after several days.  The install will be trial and error.  I don't want to give specific locations because I'm not there to listen to each install, so you will have to be my eyes and ears during the installation stage.

[alanmaher]

vett93

The Reference offers a warmer balance compared to the Studio Reference.  The SR is designed for the recording studio to allow engineers to experience a neutral / live sound to aid in the mix process.  The SR doesn't provide complete transparency, but it does achieve 85% compared to our v2 version which offers total transparency. 

The Reference is designed to damp brighter sounding components without rolling off any one frequency.  The cable provides a warmer balance with excellent dynamic range and sound stage presentation.  Maybe Bob would like to comment more since he has a few installed in his set up.

The advice I give will depend on the sound presentation of your system.  Is it warm, bright, neutral...and is neutral my neutral or your interpretation of neutral...you would be surprised how many folks confuse these terms.  If I had to pick and choose I would probably go with the SR for tube gear, because I like a tighter presentation, but everyone is differrent.

[Huck]

Huck

Try another PE, only one, on the same circuit and see what you think after several days.  The install will be trial and error.  I don't want to give specific locations because I'm not there to listen to each install, so you will have to be my eyes and ears during the installation stage.

 O.K.! Thanks, Huck

[zmanbands]

vett93. I have a ARC SPII tube pre amp and SS power amp. My system leans toward the bright side and the reference power cord has been remarkable. See my several posts on them. Very clean, clear and articulate. I did not get a warm sound from them in my system. I'm also a cheap skate and the price of the ref. pwr cord appealled to me.

[vett93]

Thanks, Alan and Zmanbands. I would say that my system is neutral towards slightly warm. This is the way I like it. I have spent a lot of time and money to enhance my system. But I continue to find ways to reduce the noises and increase its resolution. My next step is filtering out the noises from Denon player on the AC.

I plugged in my PE V S/AC and 3 PEs last night. The PE V S/AC is plugged in the same duplex with the Shunyata PLC, which is on a 20A dedicated circuit. The 3 PEs are on the circuits that I think have more noises.

My initial impression, after 12 hours, is that they do make noticeable improvement on my system. The cymbals are crisper. The edges are more defined. I am pleased with the improvement. The improvement has been stable after 5 minutes of use. Will I hear the changes that others described?

One more question for Alan please. The PE V S/AC and PLC are plugged in to a Shunyata cryo treated duplex outlet. Does it matter if use the upper or lower outlet for PE V S/AC? Thanks.