Using anA/V Receiver as a Pre-Amp

vektro · « **on:** 12 Sep 2007, 02:01 am »

Anyone using a receiver as a pre-amp for your Odyssey gear. I'd like to use my set-up for HT and music, and it seems that a receiver offers alot of bang for the buck. If you are using one which is a good choice?

Vapor Audio · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 02:08 am »

Receivers eat your detail, dynamics, and imaging for lunch ... then come back for seconds. If you have a receiver and want to enjoy it as a pre-amp, don't ever A/B it against a real pre-amp. BTW, I still have a Yamaha RX-V2500 that I keep around mainly as a reference. Sure, taken on it's own it can sound decent, but compared to other gear is when you notice how it kills the sound.

ukjon72 · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 12:55 pm »

i went through the same thoughts a few years back when i integrated my HT with my 2ch. when you go through a receiver you do lose a lot. I ended up finding a pre-amp that had a HT pass through, that way i was able to enjoy my 2ch but still use it as part of my HT.

The only other thought might be to try and find a decent a/v receiver that would double well as a pre.. i remember reading well of the Outlaw a/v receivers.

just my 2 cents!

BobC · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 02:25 pm »

This is from another post I made, but it addresses the same question. Hope it helps! In my opinion.....

"I also kept my HT rig (Rotel RSP 1066 and a stack of B&K / Rotel amps) for HT. I use the pre out to send the front channel signals to my Candela in HT bypass. When I want to listen to music I use the Candela of course eliminating all of the Rotel circuitry. Works great for me. The Rotel does a great job on movies but it's stereo pre-amp section does not perform nearly as well as the Candela by itself. I suspect any Odyssey gear would smoke the Onkyo or HK....but you will never know for yourself unless you try.

I'm more critical of music vs movies, also HT tech changes fast...so I choose to spend my $$$ on a killer 2ch set up and keep my HT low / mid fi.

I think I put this in an earlier post....but the benefits of a dedicated 2 ch pre are not small. The big thing I noticed was that I did not have to turn the volume up as high to get a 3D image and soundstage. That's a big deal because I have a 2 year old at home who goes to bed at 8pm! Plus all of the usual flowery words.... better clarity, dynamics, imaging, texture, etc etc. It just sounds a lot better...'nuff said.

Reco you put your money where your pleasure is. From your post I think I'd keep your Onkyo (assuming it has pre outs ) and use a pre with HT by-pass for 2CH (not sure if the Etesian has HT bypass or not). Later, if you decide to upgrade your HT you can do it without fear of messing up your stereo, i.e. search for the best low / mid fi receiver based only on HT processing, etc."

Bob

Christof · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 03:29 pm »

Nort sure if it counts as a "receiver" or not but I use an integrated amplifier (Electrocompaniet) as my preamp hooked to a pair of stereo Khartagos used in vertical biamp config.....sounds great with my SP Tech TP 2.1's.

vektro · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 05:51 pm »

Thanks for the response. I'm sure you guys are right on using a dedicated 2 channel amp being better for music. Right now I'd like to do HT and 2-channel with my current set-up. Sounds like a receiver that has the lastest cool processing, but not necessarily alot of power, for the ht, and a separate 2 channel with pass thru for music. That would be great, except for the costs. Thought maybe I could get a receiver first, then look to add a 2 channel preamp.
I have an HT-3 with the cap upgrades, and the Mono Extremes. Speakers are RBH 1044, 441, and the 1010sep sub. Source is a Panny rp10.

Bigfish · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Sep 2007, 02:06 am »

Quote from: vektro on 12 Sep 2007, 05:51 pm

Thanks for the response. I'm sure you guys are right on using a dedicated 2 channel amp being better for music. Right now I'd like to do HT and 2-channel with my current set-up. Sounds like a receiver that has the lastest cool processing, but not necessarily alot of power, for the ht, and a separate 2 channel with pass thru for music. That would be great, except for the costs. Thought maybe I could get a receiver first, then look to add a 2 channel preamp.
I have an HT-3 with the cap upgrades, and the Mono Extremes. Speakers are RBH 1044, 441, and the 1010sep sub. Source is a Panny rp10.

My Mono SEs showed-up a couple of weeks ahead of the Candela Preamp and I used my Denon 3806 AVR as a preamp for 2 channel. Honestly, I thought it sounded pretty good and then the Candela showed-up. The difference in the quality of the music was astounding. What you are considering doing with a AVR will work but you will be seriously handicapping the capabilities of the Stratos Amps for 2 channel sound. I use the Candela in HT bypass with the Denon 3806 for movies where I think it works fine (I have never had the opportunity to evaluate a dedicated HT Preamp). Oh, by the way, I think you will find many of the owners of the Stratos Monos feel they sound their best when feed by a tube preamp.

Good Lunk,

Ken

Msleb · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 07:06 pm »

Can someone clarify for me: I have the stratos extreme which have just arrived, and I had hoped to use an Onkyo 885 PrePro for HT, and the Candela for 2 ch music listening. However, the 885 PrePro is in limited supply, so I may go with an Onkyo 905 receiver (which, supposedly, is the 885 PrePro married to an amplifier in one chassis). I will bypass the built in amp (using preamp outs) in order to use the Stratos', but I am confused on how to integrate the Candela in this manner.

Simply put, what connects where? I assume the receiver's preamp outputs go to the stratos, but where does the candela fit? On a different note, I have read that the phase is inverted with the candela, and that connections at the speaker should be reversed in order to open the soundstage. For those of you with a multichannel HT receiver or PrePro, and the candela, how do you accomplish reversing the phase in order to make the candela correct, but not reversing phase for HT/multichannel? Or, is it a case of pick your tradeoff?

Mark

St_PatGuy · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 07:35 pm »

Hook up the Stratos to the Candela's outputs. There should be another set of outputs on the Candela and you want to hook those up to the 905 preamp out connection. You should be good to go. Mind you, I don't have a Candela, but I do use a tube preamp in this same configuration.

I don't know what to tell you about the phase issue.

Bigfish · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 08:00 pm »

Quote from: vektro on 12 Sep 2007, 02:01 am

Anyone using a receiver as a pre-amp for your Odyssey gear. I'd like to use my set-up for HT and music, and it seems that a receiver offers alot of bang for the buck. If you are using one which is a good choice?

I used a Denon 3806AVR as a preamp for 2 channel as my Odyssey Mono SEs arrived a week or so prior to the Candela Preamp. It works and you don't know what you are missing until you connect a dedicated preamp. Others may disagree but with HT your focus is on what your eyes see, not what your ears hear. With 2 channel it is 100% about sound quality. Yes, a receiver can serve as a preamp but if you ever connect a real preamp (with HT Bypass to allow dual purpose use) to your 2 channel rig you will not want to use a receiver as a preamp again.

Good Luck,

Ken

ted_b · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 08:08 pm »

Get an Integra 9.8 (Onkyo pro 885) pre/pro for like $1500 and it will handle ALL your HT needs (HDMI, Blu-ray and HD-DVD audio codec processing, DSD onboard, etc.). Then find a good stereo pre with an HT bypass (pre-owned Modwright SWL 9.0SE on A-gon) and you're set. A receiver will do a very poor 2 channel job, and only a fair HT job. Too many cost cutting decisions go into a receiver's front end.

Msleb · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 09:15 pm »

Thanks for the rapid responses!
Just a quick clarification so I can wrap my head around this:
St_PatGuy, you said "Hook up the Stratos to the Candela's outputs. There should be another set of outputs on the Candela and you want to hook those up to the 905 preamp out connection. You should be good to go. Mind you, I don't have a Candela, but I do use a tube preamp in this same configuration."

Do you mean the 905 Preamp output goes to Candela 2 channel Inputs, and then the Candela Outputs go to the stratos? (and, I assume, the center channel and side/rear surrounds go straight from 905 Preamp to the stratos)?
Is that correct? So, in essence, when listening to multichannel movie via the 905/stratos, the Candela is "in line" but not active?

Thanks
Mark

Msleb · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 09:26 pm »

Ted_b,
Do you know of any places to find an onkyo 885/integra 9.8? That is the $64,000 question

ted_b · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 09:44 pm »

Quote from: Msleb on 23 Dec 2007, 09:26 pm

Ted_b,
Do you know of any places to find an onkyo 885/integra 9.8? That is the $64,000 question

They are showing up more and more now. The slow drip has become a nagging trickle. I got mine (885) through Brian Vita in Peabody MA (Cinema and Service). Quite a few have found them at proaudiosolutions lately.

Msleb · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 09:56 pm »

Thanks Ted-
How long was your wait with Brian (Peabody)? Last time I spoke with him he thought ~1 month...
In your opinion, other than the added cost, is there any difference in going with the onkyo 905 as a pure prepro and use the stratos with that? It's hard to say definitively, but it looks like the 905 preamp section is the same as the 885...
Mark

PS. Given the ol' laws of supply and demand, I can actually buy the 905 Receiver and "throw away" the amplifer for less than the cost of an 885. So, the issue isn't $ --I just want the best product for its intended use (PrePro only)
Mark

St_PatGuy · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 10:13 pm »

Mark, I don't know how the Candela is labeled on the back. On my two-channel preamp, I have my Khartago amp hooked up to the first set of outputs, and the second set of outputs are connected to my receiver's pre outs. I think mine is this way because there is no HT bypass selected input. I can either mute the volume or turn off the preamp and it will effectively pass the signal through. Some preamps may have a labeled HT bypass connection, something you can select from knob on the front, i.e. CD, Phono, Aux, Ht. . .etc, which may give you a different hook up scenario.

You know, shoot Klaus an email, or give him a call. He'll tell you the right way to hook it up. Hopefully, someone with a Candela can chime in.

Bigfish · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 10:19 pm »

I have a Candela preamp and use the front main speakers for HT and 2 channel duty. You connect ICs from the receiver preouts for the front right and left channels to the Candela. When you desire HT you select HT Bypass on the Candela Selector (I turn the Candela Off) and the HT Receivers Preamp Processor controls the signal to all speakers.

Good Luck,

Ken

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 11:53 pm »

My 885 was only $1250 new with warranty. It is excellent and does not have the switching/clicking my 805 had. Very quiet and easy to set up. Dolby True HD is outstanding.

zybar · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 12:50 am »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 23 Dec 2007, 11:53 pm

My 885 was only $1250 new with warranty. It is excellent and does not have the switching/clicking my 805 had. Very quiet and easy to set up. Dolby True HD is outstanding.

Pete,

What are you using as a source for True HD?

Can you get True HD via HDMI or does it have to be via the analog outputs?

George

ted_b · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 01:25 am »

Quote from: zybar on 24 Dec 2007, 12:50 am

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 23 Dec 2007, 11:53 pm
My 885 was only $1250 new with warranty. It is excellent and does not have the switching/clicking my 805 had. Very quiet and easy to set up. Dolby True HD is outstanding.

Pete,

What are you using as a source for True HD?

Can you get True HD via HDMI or does it have to be via the analog outputs?

George

George,
TrueHD is via bitstream (HDMi) from my Samsung 1400 (although Panny 30K is nicer machine). DTS-HD Master Audio is incredible, too. For great TrueHD try Dave Matthews/Time Reynolds Live at Radio City. Wow. The 885 I have, Pete, was around that $$ too. We did good. Slightly less open in analog byapss than my Cary Cinema 11, but for the money and the advanced audio codecs, and the HDMI, and the DSD, and the....... it's way worth it.

Oh, and now Cary states they were kidding; they really aren't gonna be able to do TrueHD and DTS-HD MA with the two box Cinema11/Cinema 11V. Folks will need, instead, to buy the Cinema 11A in order to marry it to the 11V and get advanced audio codecs...the current 11 doesn't have the proper chips, and the unreleased 11V will do no audio after all, just pass HDMI, etc. HUGE bait and switch. They even stated in the 11 manual, page 5, that TrueHD and DTS-HD MA would be available with the 2 box solution.....problem is, they must've meant ANOTHER 2 boxes!!!!!

The Onkyo Pro 885/Integra 9.8 is a keeper.