Opinions please on this deal with Audio Connection

warnerwh · « **on:** 1 Sep 2003, 03:59 pm »

Decided I'd try tubes in my system and decided to get the Cary AE 3 preamp as it's not too expensive and if I like it I will move up the food chain and if I don't I can just sell it at a small loss at most. The ad shows a clear picture with GE tubes and not the stock russian tubes. I'd read over and over how the russian tubes suck and after another poster here who had the same preamp suggested changing tubes I said I'd confirm that it comes with the GE's shown in the picture. The response from Audio Connection was that it comes with the stock CARY tubes and the GE tubes are an option. (I have the email) Also the ad appears to be from a private seller but it turns out it is from a place called the Audio Connection on the east coast. What's everybody's opinion, should I tell him to send my money order back or is he within his rights showing a picture with one pair of tubes and substituting another? Here's a link to the audiogon ad with the picture:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?preatube&1066107058
Personally I feel like this is bait and switch but the guy has good feedback. Comments appreciated.

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 04:14 pm »

Seems you're right to expect the GE tubes shown: even his item description says "See photo below". It'd be different it he showed a pic with GE's but clearly stated something like "Preamp comes with stock tubes, but tubes shown are available at additional cost." He should know the ropes about stating everything clearly in an ad: it's not like this is his first sale.

Mad DOg · « **Reply #2 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 05:53 pm »

Quote from: warnerwh

The response from Audio Connection was that it comes with the stock CARY tubes and the GE tubes are an option. (I have the email)

did you email him and receive this answer before agreeing to purchase the preamp?

Mad DOg · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 05:57 pm »

Quote from: Tonto Yoder

Seems you're right to expect the GE tubes shown: even his item description says "See photo below". It'd be different it he showed a pic with GE's but clearly stated something like "Preamp comes with stock tubes, but tubes shown are available at additional cost." He should know the ropes about stating everything clearly in an ad: it's not like this is his first sale.

i'd agree with this...but if he was clear in his email communication w/ warnerwh before warnerwh agreed to purchase the preamp, then it would also be warnerwh's responsibility to negotiate for the GE tubes in the final price...

cjr888 · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 06:02 pm »

Audio Connection is in Verona, NJ (http://www.audioconnect.com) about 20-30 minutes from me. My experience with John Rutan is that he's very friendly and accomodating -- at the least, he's much, much more so than many of the other NJ dealers.

First, and please correct if wrong, it sounds like you inquired about the tubes after sending the money. From a point of suggestion, I would have asked all questions prior to handing over your money, just for confirmation, but that's no longer the issue obviously. Based on the advertisement, if the picture is of the actual unit, that's what you should be getting. If it isn't displayed as it would be sold, I would think they would or should state this -- what tubes are included (and if tubes are included at all!)

As you've already spent your money, I'd give them a call, and ask specifically to speak with John and mention that you assumed they were included as the advertisement indicated as such due to the picture, and that you otherwise wouldn't have gone through with the sale. If he's friendly and understanding of what would be considered his mistake, stick with it -- if not, ask for your money back, or speak with Audiogon. If you're just trying to the 'tube thing' anyway, there's plenty in the same range to try out if things go sour on the deal (the cheaper Dodd preamp comes to mind as well as Space Tech Lab)

I think you're perfectly within reason to state that it should come with the GE tubes or your money be returned. Either way, your transaction isn't completed yet......

Was surprised to see the ad on Audiogon -- I have thought that Audio Connection only advertised on Audioshopper. You can see all their listings via the link below, including the advertisement for the same preamplifier in the 2nd link.

Hope the transaction goes OK in the end, whether its getting what you thought you were getting, or having your money returned to you.

http://www.audioshopper.com/cgi-bin/classifieds.asp?action=fl&curpage=1&sp1=1&location=VERONA&vtype=B&stype=F
http://www.audioshopper.com/cgi-bin/classifieds.asp?action=showad&id=55710

warnerwh · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 06:07 pm »

He said nothing of which tubes come with the preamp before I made the deal and I did not ask as I assumed (woops) it would come with what was in the picture. It was after the fact that I emailed to confirm that it does indeed come with the GE tubes. If you look at the ad like Tonto Yoder said, he states "see picture below". Why I decided to ask after I sent the MO is I just read hmen's post how bad the chinese tubes suffered from microphonics and got nervous. Also I've been on pain meds all week as I had surgery Monday and haven't been thinking as clearly as usual or I would have verified it beforehand. This of course is my side of the fence and is why I posted this.

Mad DOg · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 07:13 pm »

based on all of this info, i would expect the unit to come w/ the GE tubes...

Pirate · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 07:58 pm »

I would have expected the unit to arrive as shown in the photo

Danny Richie · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 08:30 pm »

If you are looking for a good pre-amp in that price range have a look at Dodd Audio's entree level unit.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=3267

The circuitry is a replica of the Melos that sold for $3,900.

It has a high quality transformer, Sonicaps, Cardus inputs, Alps Black Beauty pot, etc.

You can't get higher quality for twice the price and it will sound better than the Cary I promise you.

I think he is even sending them out for auditions.

If I were you I would get your money back on the Cary.

TIC · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 08:42 pm »

I agree with the above posters. It should come with the tubes shown in the ad since there was no mention of the "stock tubes" being supplied at that asking price.

Personally, I would send e-mail to Audio Connection with a link to this thread included. Since Audio Connection is a dealer and depends on the internet for much of their advertising, I would think they would be interested in responding here with the good news.......that they will include the GE's with your pre-amp.

If they still insist that they will not include the GE tubes, I would ask for my money back and get the new Dodd or possibly a new Space-Tech Labs pre-amp. Of course, the BottleHead ForePlay could be a fun project too....All similarly priced to the USED Cary!

Enjoy,

TIC

warnerwh · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 11:02 pm »

Here's John's response on AA to those interested: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/285728.html

I think it's interesting I was offered the GE tubes if I paid more but no mention was made of the fact that it would void the warranty. Personally I think I'd tell someone something that important at the outset. If I thought the warranty was affected by the tubes I used I would have mentioned it earlier.

cjr888 · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 01:18 am »

BTW, the AA post mentions giving him a 2 year warranty that was not in the ad.

If you reference the ad on AudioShopper and not Audiogon, it sure appears to be the same unit, and mentions a full 3 year warranty. Something you may want to keep in mind.

http://www.audioshopper.com/cgi-bin/classifieds.asp?action=showad&id=55710

warnerwh · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 01:45 am »

Quote from: warnerwh

Here's John's response on AA to those interested: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/285728.html

I think it's interesting I was offered the GE tubes if I paid more but no mention was made of the fact that it would void the warranty he offered. Personally I think I'd tell someone something that important at the outset. If I thought the warranty was affected by the tubes I used I would have mentioned it earlier.

hmen · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 02:58 am »

He's probably legally obligated to give you the tubes shown in the ad unless the ad specified otherwise.
This is what my AE3 manual says would void the warrenty:
"Improper maintenance or repair,including the installation of parts or accesories that does not conform to the quality and specifications of the original parts"
Does this pertain to rolling tubes? If the GE tubes are not up to Cary's standards (which I doubt) why is he selling them? Is this warrenty from AES or the seller? The warrenty with my unit is 3 years.

TIC · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 03:28 am »

Well, I read the Asylum post from John at Audio Connection. The way I read it, he says "fine, you can have the GE tubes, but we will not warranty the TUBES". It is difficult to understand exactly what John is saying because his sentence runs on very badly. But, the impression I got is that he will give you the tubes, but they will not be covered by the warranty.

BTW, it's pretty typical for tubes to not be covered by the same warranty as the manufacturer's electronics.

Hope it works out for you.

Enjoy,

TIC

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 10:46 am »

I'm unsure why a dealer doesn't advertise as such??? The fact that an available warranty has come up surprises me somewhat: if I had been reading Agon ads, I would have expected this pre was just from some individual who decided to sell after 3 months use and who probably couldn't offer any warranty (unless it was transferrable from the original sale).

F-100 · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 06:11 pm »

Based on the ad, I would expect the preamp to come w/ the GE tubes too. Otherwise it's a false advertisement.