[markC]

Which is worse?

A kid downloading MP3 and playing it back through his home theater in a box.

Or, a grown man spending thousands of dollars to play vinyl through SET's connected a single driver full range speaker system (with expensive power cords, IC's and speaker wire of course).

The audio capabilities of either system will be miserable.

The kid of course hasn't wasted near as much money.

The adult should know better but for some reason doesn't.

Not much has changed.

Their have always been a few intersted in high fidelity (maybe 0.1% of those involved).

The rest is nothing but B.S.

Are YOU interested in high fidelity?

[AJinFLA]

Statements like this show exactly how inexperienced and closed minded you truly are.

Really? What if that has been his experience? What if Daryl has heard dozens of vinyl/SET/fullrange systems and they all sound exactly like or at least very similar to what he hears from a HT in a box playing MP3's? Who are you to tell him that has not been his experience? Why should he not be able to state his opinion if this has been his experience? Exactly who is closed minded here?
I'm going to guess that you (and others) have such systems and consider that to be a blasphemous insult rather than opinion.

cheers,

AJ

[markC]

Statements like this show exactly how inexperienced and closed minded you truly are.

Really? What if that has been his experience? What if Daryl has heard dozens of vinyl/SET/fullrange systems and they all sound exactly like or at least very similar to what he hears from a HT in a box playing MP3's?
cheers,

AJ

You must be bored tonite. If one can't hear the difference between a box ht and a set/vinyl rig, then why would one even post here?

[opnly bafld]

Really? What if that has been his experience? What if Daryl has heard dozens of vinyl/SET/fullrange systems and they all sound exactly like or at least very similar to what he hears from a HT in a box playing MP3's? Who are you to tell him that has not been his experience?

AJ

Regardless if a person likes vinyl/SETs/fullrange or not, if they can't hear a difference or feel they are the same fidelity wise as a HTIB and MP3s, they must be deaf.

Lin

[doug s.]

here's a pic of scott f's system:


no, i have never heard it.  but, i would be wery surprised if it sounds "miserable"...  looks pretty damned sweet to me.  but, mebbe, at age 51, i don't know any better...     and, no, my system is not based on full range drivers & low power set's.  but i have heard these systems, & "miserable" is about the polar opposite of how they sound.  and, i may be setting up something similar myself, in the not too distant future.

if this really is daryl's experience, then i would submit that he has a hearing problem.

ymmv,

doug s.

Statements like this show exactly how inexperienced and closed minded you truly are.

Really? What if that has been his experience? What if Daryl has heard dozens of vinyl/SET/fullrange systems and they all sound exactly like or at least very similar to what he hears from a HT in a box playing MP3's? Who are you to tell him that has not been his experience? Why should he not be able to state his opinion if this has been his experience? Exactly who is closed minded here?
I'm going to guess that you (and others) have such systems and consider that to be a blasphemous insult rather than opinion.

cheers,

AJ

[aerius]

Really? What if that has been his experience? What if Daryl has heard dozens of vinyl/SET/fullrange systems and they all sound exactly like or at least very similar to what he hears from a HT in a box playing MP3's? Who are you to tell him that has not been his experience? Why should he not be able to state his opinion if this has been his experience? Exactly who is closed minded here?
I'm going to guess that you (and others) have such systems and consider that to be a blasphemous insult rather than opinion.

Hypothetically speaking, if a HT in a box sounds the same as a SET fullrange system, I'd seriously have to question the person's sanity.

If on the other hand, the person claims that HT in a box and SET fullrange are both equally flawed, but in different way, I can fully understand that.

But that's just my opinion.

[doug s.]

here's my opinion:

both equally flawed?  no.  both flawed, yes, but while the h/t-mp3 system will (imo), sound miserable, the single-driver/set system will sound extremely nice.

if someone thinks they sound the same, (or even not the same, but that both sound miserable), it would be their hearing i would be questioning, (as i awreddy stated), not necessarily their sanity...

personally, for my tastes, i think single-driver systems sound best when augmented w/subwoofers and supertweeters...  but, technically, they are no longer single-driver systems, anymore...

doug s.

Really? What if that has been his experience? What if Daryl has heard dozens of vinyl/SET/fullrange systems and they all sound exactly like or at least very similar to what he hears from a HT in a box playing MP3's? Who are you to tell him that has not been his experience? Why should he not be able to state his opinion if this has been his experience? Exactly who is closed minded here?
I'm going to guess that you (and others) have such systems and consider that to be a blasphemous insult rather than opinion.

Hypothetically speaking, if a HT in a box sounds the same as a SET fullrange system, I'd seriously have to question the person's sanity.

If on the other hand, the person claims that HT in a box and SET fullrange are both equally flawed, but in different way, I can fully understand that.

But that's just my opinion.

[TONEPUB]

I'm not an SET person anymore, but I still have a lot of fond memories of that configuration...

Doesn't do everything, but then again few systems do anyway.
My experience with the SET thing was that with the right music
it could be very magical indeed.

I've also heard quite a few different SET systems, and the ones I heard all had
very different flavors.  The 2A3's sounded different than the systems based on
a 45 or a 300B or an 845.  All very unique.

If I still had a big spare room, I'd definitely have a 2nd system built around
an SET....

[Daygloworange]

Daryl,

Just out of curiosity, what does your system comprise of?

Cheers

[Scott F.]

I knew I could make this thread spiral out of control if I tried   

...and no AJ, I ain't gunna bite 


Hey Doug, if you want some help putting together your system, drop me a PM. What you saw in that pic is changing again with proper cabinets and resized baffles for the Lowthers. It's been a long road getting it fine tuned .... I'm still not done 

[AJinFLA]

why would one even post here?

if they can't hear a difference or feel they are the same fidelity wise as a HTIB and MP3s, they must be deaf.

i would submit that he has a hearing problem.

I'd seriously have to question the person's sanity.

It's refreshing to see such open mindedness and tolerance for an other's viewpoint.
Maybe a forum rule could be added to clarify that a fatwa will be issued for any such future heresy?
I wonder what grief he would have taken for saying that CD sucks compared to vinyl, that Solid State sounds grainy and unmusical compared to SET, that multi-way speakers lack coherence and midrange purity compared to fullranges? I wonder if that would make him deaf, insane and unworthy of posting his opinion hear? Hmmm.

cheers,

AJ

[AJinFLA]

I knew I could make this thread spiral out of control if I tried   
...and no AJ, I ain't gunna bite 

Good for you. Is that really your 3 way pictured above?

cheers,

AJ

[doug s.]

hi scott,

here's a link to a post i made, re: what i will likely be up to, w/full-range single-driver speakers.  lemme know if you have any suggestions!   

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=45062.msg403853#msg403853

thanks,

doug s.

I knew I could make this thread spiral out of control if I tried   

...and no AJ, I ain't gunna bite 


Hey Doug, if you want some help putting together your system, drop me a PM. What you saw in that pic is changing again with proper cabinets and resized baffles for the Lowthers. It's been a long road getting it fine tuned .... I'm still not done 

[doug s.]

all ya need to do is check scott's system, linked here at audio circle, & read his response to me...

doug s.

I knew I could make this thread spiral out of control if I tried   
...and no AJ, I ain't gunna bite 

Good for you. Is that really your 3 way pictured above?

cheers,

AJ

[doug s.]

you really wonder what woulda been said if daryl posted some queries that you hypothesize?  yust peruse these forums for your answer.  all these topics are , in fact, discussed here, & usually quite intelligent & informative conwersations take place, with supporters & detractors from all sides.  but, that's not what daryl posted, that created such a backlash, is it?     hmmm...

doug s.

why would one even post here?

if they can't hear a difference or feel they are the same fidelity wise as a HTIB and MP3s, they must be deaf.

i would submit that he has a hearing problem.

I'd seriously have to question the person's sanity.

It's refreshing to see such open mindedness and tolerance for an other's viewpoint.
Maybe a forum rule could be added to clarify that a fatwa will be issued for any such future heresy?
I wonder what grief he would have taken for saying that CD sucks compared to vinyl, that Solid State sounds grainy and unmusical compared to SET, that multi-way speakers lack coherence and midrange purity compared to fullranges? I wonder if that would make him deaf, insane and unworthy of posting his opinion hear? Hmmm.

cheers,

AJ

[TONEPUB]

Just out of curiosity AJ, I'd like to know what you listen to...

Might give us all an idea of what your favorite flavor is.

[opaqueice]

This thread started with the premise that hi-fi is dying due to the proliferation of low-fi formats.  The idea was that since many people are deliberately choosing to listen to music with degraded fidelity, they apparently don't care about sound quality and therefore the hi-fi world is coming to an end.  (Personally I think that's clearly a silly idea - if more people listen to more music there's no way that's bad for hifi - but back on topic.)

Daryl's point was that one can apply precisely the same argument to many audiophiles.    How do we know MP3 is lower fidelity?  Because it has increased distortion, an altered harmonic balance, and it just sounds bad.  Well, guess what - SET amplifiers have much higher distortion than SS.  Vinyl has both lower resolution and much higher noise floor than CDs.  Single driver speakers have pretty terrible harmonic characteristics compared to conventional.  And all that degradation in sound quality can be heard quite clearly. 

So there you have it - a group of people deliberately choosing low fidelity!  Does that mean hi-fi is dying?   

[Big Red Machine]

Looks alive here!

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?cablspkr&1190078589&1190029790

[Scott F.]

This thread started with the premise that hi-fi is dying due to the proliferation of low-fi formats......<big snip>......Does that mean hi-fi is dying?   

Great.....another expert with minutes of experience weighs in. 

[Daygloworange]

Great.....another expert with minutes of experience weighs in. 

Get off your high horse there Scott.

Opaqueice's post was not an inflammatory one, but was quite succinct. I think he captured the essence of the matter quite well. And he's entitled to his opinion, as are others. How do you know what his level of experience?
Do you conclude that because he hasn't come to like the same stuff as you?

You're the one distilling it to what you want it to read like.

BTW, I've got ten's of thousands of hours experience, as a musician, and as a recording engineer.

I run vintage tubes and single drivers in my guitar rig and love it, but run different stuff in my studio where the requirements are different. So what?

Feel better now?

Cheers