[centerfield24]

Vinnie ,

        Will the sound upgrade require a break in period. I so how long

[Vinnie R.]

Vinnie

Many people think (me included) that passive TVC "preamps" are superior to other volume controls, including the DACT.  Therefore I would think that going for the power amp version, thereby removing the DACT from the signal path, and replacing it with a TVC would, in itself, be an upgrade.   Any experience or thoughts on this?

Regards
Ian

Hi Ian,

I can't say I have much experience in comparing passive TVC vs. a high quality resistor-based attenuator such as the DACT/Goldpoint. 

If you were to use a TVC preamp, it would be best to upgrade to the Signature 30.2 (or 70.2) that does NOT include the volume control.

I very much would want to know how the data points to sonic
differences between the two. Quite frankly Vinnie, distortion graphs and FR are par for the course,
especially when charging $2500.

Hi acd483,

I would say it comes down not wanting a product to be "pre-judged" by graphs and measurements vs. actually being listened to with playing real music instead of test tones.  While I admit to using test tones and taking measurements during devolopment, I will state upfront that ALL of my decisions are based on the resulting sound playing MUSIC.

As many already know, there are plenty of tubed-based amps out there that don't measure very well, but many love how they sound and the music that they make.  If you are interested in how a product sounds in your system and room and with your own two ears, playing music, I suppose how something measures is not of great importantance.  Sure, one would like to know how much clean power is available to them and other specifications such as input impedance, input sensitivity, etc. and I do provide such details.

FWIW, there are LOTS of amplifier manufacturers out there (tubed and solid-state) selling equipment far beyond the cost of the Signature 30.2 and that do NOT provide FR plots and distortion graphs.  I don't believe such graphs are "par for the course" for *any* priced piece of equipment.  Others may disagree and that is fine as well.  In the end, the consumer has the choice to purchase or not to purchase a product for whatever reason.  If you as the customer require seeing such data before making your purchase (even though we offer a 30-day refund period so you can listen to our products in your system and room and with your own two ears and with your own music), our products are probably not the right choice for you... I can respect that and have no hard feelings about this. 

I don't have much more to say about this topic and I would much appreicate it if this thread does not continue on with posts about measurements, as it is about the features, options, availability, etc. of the Signature 30.2 as described above and I would like to keep it focused on this and only this.  Such a thread can be posted elsewhere on audiocircle and may prove to be very interesting and worthwhile to some.

Thank you for your understanding,

Vinnie

[Vinnie R.]

Vinnie ,

        Will the sound upgrade require a break in period. I so how long

Hi centerfield24,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!

Good question and here is how it is -- Right out of the box the sonic goals of the Signature 30.2 as detailed above will be easy to hear (even compared to a well broken-in Signature 30).  However, I highly recommend 100 to 200 hours of burn-in to allow the product show-off what it really can do, as it does sound noticeably better with burn-in time.

Thanks for posting,

Vinnie

[DARTH AUDIO]

Hey Vinnie, that was a "Classy" answer to the "Graph" guy!! I'm with you.. Let me hear how it sounds. I could care less what the FR response graph shows, if the sound suits me the who cares.

BTW, Your new product has caught my attention and can't wait to hear it at RMAF. I've been a tube person for a long time. But I live in a small condo in Chicago and the amps can warm things up a little. But the trade off in sound keeps me with my AC real low.. Will you have the 70.2 monoblocs at the RMAF? How much will they sell for?

I look forward to hearing your amps at RMAF

Continued Success,

Gary

[Bucky]

OK lets hear about the Isabella!  If it comes in at a competivite price (Competitive is tough to judge, but the Dodd battery pre is just too much for a preamp), and sound good i'm all over it.

[davidada]

Hi Vinnie
As an early adopter of all your products except the Ipod (soon) the upgrade path is greatly valued
I agree with a few other posters on the logos for the sig 30.2, please keep it discreet or offer a stealth option engraved but not colored. At thr least make it no larger than what we already have on the sig 30.
Cannot wait when do I send mine in!!

[Brad]

Looks like great work Vinnie.
The upgrade path seems more than fair to your existing customers.
I think you're going to be even busier 

[acd483]

Hi acd483,

I would say it comes down not wanting a product to be "pre-judged" by graphs and measurements vs. actually being listened to with playing real music instead of test tones.  While I admit to using test tones and taking measurements during devolopment, I will state upfront that ALL of my decisions are based on the resulting sound playing MUSIC.

As many already know, there are plenty of tubed-based amps out there that don't measure very well, but many love how they sound and the music that they make.  If you are interested in how a product sounds in your system and room and with your own two ears, playing music, I suppose how something measures is not of great importantance.  Sure, one would like to know how much clean power is available to them and other specifications such as input impedance, input sensitivity, etc. and I do provide such details.

FWIW, there are LOTS of amplifier manufacturers out there (tubed and solid-state) selling equipment far beyond the cost of the Signature 30.2 and that do NOT provide FR plots and distortion graphs.  I don't believe such graphs are "par for the course" for *any* priced piece of equipment.  Others may disagree and that is fine as well.  In the end, the consumer has the choice to purchase or not to purchase a product for whatever reason.  If you as the customer require seeing such data before making your purchase (even though we offer a 30-day refund period so you can listen to our products in your system and room and with your own two ears and with your own music), our products are probably not the right choice for you... I can respect that and have no hard feelings about this. 

I don't have much more to say about this topic and I would much appreicate it if this thread does not continue on with posts about measurements, as it is about the features, options, availability, etc. of the Signature 30.2 as described above and I would like to keep it focused on this and only this.  Such a thread can be posted elsewhere on audiocircle and may prove to be very interesting and worthwhile to some.

Thank you for your understanding,

Vinnie

I believe that distortion and noise play important roles in the way a piece of electronics sounds. Far be it from me to tell someone which sound they should prefer, however I do think the test results are important in supporting a manufacturer's claims, whatever they may be.
That is the only reason I was curious to see the graphs. I'm a card-carrying Sig 30 owner, and we love the sound it makes, and that's all I'll say on the subject also.

[acd483]

P.S. If I didn't care about your products, I never would have offered any criticism on their design.

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Vinnie
As an early adopter of all your products except the Ipod (soon) the upgrade path is greatly valued
I agree with a few other posters on the logos for the sig 30.2, please keep it discreet or offer a stealth option engraved but not colored. At thr least make it no larger than what we already have on the sig 30.
Cannot wait when do I send mine in!!

Hi David,

Ok... let me have another concept drawing worked up. 

P.S. If I didn't care about your products, I never would have offered any criticism on their design.

Hi acd483,

I understand and do appreciate your feedback. 

Thank you,

Vinnie

[Vinnie R.]

Here is another concept photo with smaller letters:



here was the previous concept photo with the larger letters:



I might be able to go even smaller, but I don't want to go much smaller 

I really wish you all could see the actual touch-sensing switch with built-in LED... it looks really good.  At least I have something to show with this photoshopped pic 

Thanks again,

Vinnie

[stevenkelby]

Looking good Vinnie, I am close to the funds I will need here. Will be in touch soon with either good news or great news.  aa

Just wanted to post here and add my voice in agreeance with David and others regarding the font size. I know the 30.2 will look beautiful either way but I would prefer a bit smaller lettering too, even a touch smaller than your last small font pic above. It wouldn't be a deal breaker though, even if you graffiti all over the front it's the sound and functionality that matter most!

[acd483]

Smaller type is definitely better. Here's my thought:



Why not integrate your grapes logo to glow when it's on?

This typography ties the elements together.

[Vinnie R.]

Smaller type is definitely better. Here's my thought:



Why not integrate your grapes logo to glow when it's on?

This typography ties the elements together.

Hi acd483,

Thanks for your feedback.  Yes, it would be very cool to have a custom switch made like this, but this type of switch needs to have the center area clear for the "touch-sensing" aspect to work properly. 

Just wanted to post here and add my voice in agreeance with David and others regarding the font size. I know the 30.2 will look beautiful either way but I would prefer a bit smaller lettering too, even a touch smaller than your last small font pic above. It wouldn't be a deal breaker though, even if you graffiti all over the front it's the sound and functionality that matter most!

Hi Steven,

Thanks for the feedback. 

I am fairly certain that I am going to use this look:



This is the version of the smaller text (see above for the comparison).  I really likethis new look , and will also be using this approach for the Signature 70.2 and the Isabella.

I will also be posting a Signature 30.2 rear-panel "concept photo" next.  Again, this is just a fairly accurate representation of what the product will look like.  I won't be able to take actual pics until later this month (hopefully!)...

Thanks again,

Vinnie

[Oceanfront]

Hey Vinnie,

Great to hear you are going into production with an INTEGRATED VERSION of your amp. been waiting to purchase one of your renowned amps especially this integrated version. How many inputs will this integrated have available. I will need at least two inputs for my current audio system.
I will be pairing it with a DENON 3910 player (Modified by David Schulte of the Upgrade Co)  and the HORNS from Ed Schilling.
Could be just what the doctor ordered!!

[IronLion]

I might be wrong here, but I think that the integrated version will be no different in terms of functionality or inputs than the current Signature 30; that is, one input and a pair of RCA outputs to run to a subwoofer.  The current Signature 30 is integrated in the sense that it has its own volume control and can in most cases be wired directly to the source without the need for a preamp.  I think this distinction simply has to be made now by Vinnie because he will offer a non-integrated amp in the form of a Signature 30.2 that does not have its own volume control

If you need at least two inputs for your current system, I think you might want to wait and see what the specs are for this yet-to-be described Isabella preamp...

[Robert57]

Vinnie, FWIF, I really like the last photo mock-up you've shown, with the smaller type. I agree with the others that the smaller type is more elegant and unobtrusive, yet distinctive. Very refined. All these improvements to your Signature amps and the forthcoming Isabella are very exciting.  I hope to be able to sample the goods  at RMAF--especially the new Sig. 70.2's. I especially love your design goals for the sound--sweeter and richer like SET, with the drive and control of SS. Sounds like the grail to me.

Congrats on all your continuing creative and engineering work. You appear to be taking an already excellent line mo betta!  Good luck keeping up with demand.

Rob

[Vinnie R.]

Hey Vinnie, that was a "Classy" answer to the "Graph" guy!! I'm with you.. Let me hear how it sounds. I could care less what the FR response graph shows, if the sound suits me the who cares.

BTW, Your new product has caught my attention and can't wait to hear it at RMAF. I've been a tube person for a long time. But I live in a small condo in Chicago and the amps can warm things up a little. But the trade off in sound keeps me with my AC real low.. Will you have the 70.2 monoblocs at the RMAF? How much will they sell for?

I look forward to hearing your amps at RMAF

Continued Success,

Gary

Hi Gary,

Thanks for your post.  Unfortunately, I won't be attending RMAF this year.  Between getting production going for the Signature 30.2, followed by the 70.2 and The Isabella, I need all the time I can get and didn't want to take on this show without being 100% confident that I'd be ready in time to show off ALL the products in the new line-up. 

I might be wrong here, but I think that the integrated version will be no different in terms of functionality or inputs than the current Signature 30; that is, one input and a pair of RCA outputs to run to a subwoofer.  The current Signature 30 is integrated in the sense that it has its own volume control and can in most cases be wired directly to the source without the need for a preamp.  I think this distinction simply has to be made now by Vinnie because he will offer a non-integrated amp in the form of a Signature 30.2 that does not have its own volume control

Hi Oceanfront,

IronLion is correct (thanks for your post, I.L.) in that both versions of the Signature 30.2 will only be available with one input.  The version with the remote volume control will also have  volume-controlled L/R RCA output jacks (just like the Signature 30 has), and the version that is just a power amp (no volume control) will have one L/R input pair and one L/R output pair that is tied to the input... essential a pass through in case one wants to split their line-level signal between the amp and another amp or powered subwoofer, but doesn't have an extra set of output jacks on their preamp to do so.

If you need at least two inputs for your current system, I think you might want to wait and see what the specs are for this yet-to-be described Isabella preamp...

Yes you will!    I have not yet formally posted details about The Isabella because I am still finalizing them, but I'll leak some goodies soon enough.  For now, when you think "Isabella," think: Tubed preamp with built-in non-oversampling dac (USB, coax, and optical inputs), analog inputs, entirely SLA battery powered, SMART module equipped, matching style enclosure as the new Signature 30.2 and upcoming 70.2, remote volume control, etc.  Oh wait, that was more of a leak than I was planning on leaking       At this point, I can not post more and answer questions.  Soon enough, I'll start an Isabella thread on this forum and will answer questions and post more details. 

Vinnie, FWIF, I really like the last photo mock-up you've shown, with the smaller type. I agree with the others that the smaller type is more elegant and unobtrusive, yet distinctive. Very refined. All these improvements to your Signature amps and the forthcoming Isabella are very exciting.  I hope to be able to sample the goods  at RMAF--especially the new Sig. 70.2's. I especially love your design goals for the sound--sweeter and richer like SET, with the drive and control of SS. Sounds like the grail to me.

Congrats on all your continuing creative and engineering work. You appear to be taking an already excellent line mo betta!  Good luck keeping up with demand.

Hi Rob,

Thank you very much for your enthusiastic post... it is much appreciated!


Thanks again, everyone!

Vinnie

[jrebman]

What, no phono stage?

-- Jim

[Brad]

Great tease on the Isabella, Vinnie

I like the built in NOS DAC idea.
and TUBES! 

I'm with Jim on the phono stage