How Does My 90's Equipment Rate By Today's Standards?

DaveC113 · « **on:** 1 Sep 2007, 09:21 pm »

I bought my first system in the mid-90s, and have recently updated the amp and speakers to Omega XRS and a Trends T-amp.

The rest of my equipment:

Preamp: Adcom GFP-565

I'm considering replaceing it with a Dared SL-2000A pre for sale here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130148001529&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003

I'd like to try tubes, and it might work really well with the XRS and Trends amp. My reservations are that the Adcom was highly rated (stereophile class C) in its time, so I don't want to spend money if there won't be an improvement (or worse). I don't need more features than the Dared has.

Source: Yamaha Burner -> Audio Alchemy DTI -> Audio Alchemy XDP (via I2S bus)

I'd like to get a Squeezebox eventually, but I'd still need a DAC. The AA equipment isn't worth much, so I'm thinking of waiting until the budget isn't as big of an issue as it is now...

Thanks for any advise!
Dave

Double Ugly · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Sep 2007, 09:37 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 1 Sep 2007, 09:21 pm

I'd like to get a Squeezebox eventually, but I'd still need a DAC.

Are you planning to have the SB modified? If so, I submit the above may not be true.

IME, a fully modified SB (such as a Bolder w/ Ultimate PS) is absolutely killer sans external DAC. In fact, it was preferable in my system.

IMHO, you're likely to be disappointed with a stock SB if your speakers are the least bit revealing. Much of audio is system dependent and personal to the extreme, but I believe my assessment of a stock SB's performance is shared by many.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #2 on:** 1 Sep 2007, 10:10 pm »

I can't afford a modded SB right now (eventually though...), and getting a stock SB and running it through my current DAC isn't likely to be enough of an improvement to be worthwhile. Convience would be nice, but I want to focus on a basic system with the best performance for the money right now.

The XRS / Trends combo is very detailed and holographic, but perhaps a bit thin. I like the Trends amp, and once better input caps, power caps and resistors are added it should be even better. Its running on a 12V gel cell battery. Would the Dared tube preamp add some warmth, maybe make the sound a little fuller? I've never owned tube gear.

macrojack · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Sep 2007, 10:40 pm »

For another $100 or $200 you could find an Eastern Electric Mini Max. My experience with Dared left me very unimpressed with how they are made. They seem to be rather photogenic but much less impressive in person. The monoblocks I used just screamed cheap and tacky. The EE on the other hand, was a really classy little pre.

Tweaker · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Sep 2007, 11:16 pm »

For a little more than what you'd pay for the dared you could try one of these: http://www.pacificvalve.us/Shuguang100B.html from Pacific Valve. They have a 30-day money back guarantee (minus an 8% restock fee).

DaveC113 · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 01:50 am »

Thanks for the feedback. I was considering the Dared because it got good reviews... the Minimax might be in the ballpark used. If there are any other good used options let me know.

Tweaker, do you know anyone who's ordered from pacific valve or had good luck with the products they sell? I can't find any reviews of the pre you mentioned.

Dave

WGH · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 01:56 am »

Would you consider a kit? I am going out on a limb here by suggesting you try the Clarinet linestage by Jim Hagerman: http://www.hagtech.com/clarinet.html, because I have not heard one, but I do use his Cornet2 phono pre-amp and it is fantastic. Similar in design philosophy to the Cornet2, I feel confident the Clarinet would cure the thinness of your current setup because the Cornet2 produces tight, deep, window rattling bass with the magical tube midrange. The Clarinet's retro design is the complete opposite of the shiny chrome and wood Dared, but it's all about the music, right? Finished price would be in the $500-$600 range.

Wayne

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 02:12 am »

Quote from: macrojack on 1 Sep 2007, 10:40 pm

For another $100 or $200 you could find an Eastern Electric Mini Max.

Its a nice preamp for the money....and with a little tube rolling...will sound even better.
Next in line ...for more money....the Mapletree Ultra 4 preamp....they have a circle on AC.
Heard it many times....nice !!!

GBB · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 02:23 am »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 1 Sep 2007, 09:21 pm

I'd like to try tubes, and it might work really well with the XRS and Trends amp.

Source: Yamaha Burner -> Audio Alchemy DTI -> Audio Alchemy XDP (via I2S bus)

I'd like to get a Squeezebox eventually, but I'd still need a DAC.

Dave,
I may be in the minority, but I've never been a big fan of the t-amps like the Trends. I think the source of the thin sound that you're trying to fix is the Trends and not the rest of your system. Given your desire to get into tubes and your budget, I'd take a serious look at the Ming Da MC34-B integrated amp. People that I know well say it's great, especially for the money. You can get them on ebay for just a bit more than the preamp you're looking at and then you won't need a preamp at all.

I also think that the Squeezebox will be a big step up from your Yamaha burner and will work pretty well through the Audio Alchemy DTI and DAC. And once you are ready to change DACs, I'd recommend the Citypulse DA7.2X. It's available for the $300 price range and is a real giant killer.

---Gary

DaveC113 · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 03:37 am »

WGH, I like the Hagman pre. The only issue I can see is going overboard on all the parts purchases

It looks like that kit is a great value, and I have access to equipment to fabricate sheet metal boxes... $89 for the PCB plus a huge list of parts.

GBB, I've thought about a tube integrated, but am afraid it won't have some of the really good qualities of the Trends. The Trends has a great 3D presentation... lots of air, perfect placement, etc... It also has good dynamics, a super quiet backround, and excellent detail. I know a couple members here who would let me bring the XRS over to try on their tube amps, luckily they're only 35 lbs each.

I'll try this before I make any decisions. I think one is a KT88 amp, the other is an el34.

LW, The Mapletree pre is beyond my budget for now.

If I could find a minimax cheap enough it would be a good option. Agon has one for $600 and one for $650 which is a little more than I'd like to spend.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 03:41 am »

Quote

If I could find a minimax cheap enough it would be a good option. Agon has one for $600 and one for $650 which is a little more than I'd like to spend.

Maybe wait till you can afford it....audio is not a race...buy wisely, its always better in the end...

Good luck Dave....

DaveC113 · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 03:57 am »

LW, I'll be in school for the next year or possibly longer depending on if my potential employer wants a masters degree.... so waiting isn't going to help the financial situation. I envision this as being a bedroom system eventually, (after I buy a house

) so I'm ok with keeping it a budget system. I like the idea of being able to upgrade a simple tube preamp over time, as long as the basic design has potential. This was the idea behind the Trends amp... not only that but I can now sell my Adcom GFA-5500 for a nice profit. As a bonus, the Trends just crushes the Adcom driving the XRS speakers.

Dave

AdamM · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 04:44 am »

Quote

As a bonus, the Trends just crushes the Adcom driving the XRS speakers.

Yeah, i've found the same thing. Adcom makes good big powerful amps, which i always thought were a little sterile but solid.

The other weekend, i did mini shootout with a GFA-6000: 5 channels 100Wx3, 60Wx2. Huge transformer, big PSU, you know a decent amp in many respects. I was only using two channels, which means the PSU would have had a mountain of headroom.

The challenger was my homebrew 18W SET KT88 tube monoblocks. The tubes blew the Adcom away, like, no comparison

There was just so much more life with those tubes compared to the Adcom, which seemed dry, sterile and robotic in comparison. I had to turn it up pretty loud to even get into it.

I know, some will say that i'm digging the artificial representation of the SET tube amps, because of all their even-order harmonic distortions.... Yeah? well, for a livingroom where i just want to enjoy the music, that's fine by me!

/A

Tweaker · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 05:17 am »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 2 Sep 2007, 01:50 am

Thanks for the feedback. I was considering the Dared because it got good reviews... the Minimax might be in the ballpark used. If there are any other good used options let me know.

Tweaker, do you know anyone who's ordered from pacific valve or had good luck with the products they sell? I can't find any reviews of the pre you mentioned.

Dave

I've ordered twice from Pacific Valve, a Lite Audio NOS DAC modded by PV and just recently a Yaqin tube buffer which I don't have yet. It's hard to find reviews on much of their stuff as it's all Chinese imports with the preamp being a fairly recent addition, I believe. The Lite Audio DAC, by the way, is excellent sounding for the money and very solidly built.

WGH · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 05:27 am »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 2 Sep 2007, 03:37 am

WGH, I like the Hagman pre. The only issue I can see is going overboard on all the parts purchases It looks like that kit is a great value, and I have access to equipment to fabricate sheet metal boxes... $89 for the PCB plus a huge list of parts.

Dave,

Here is what a Clarinet would cost using what I spent on the Hagtech phono parts. The Clarinet uses many of the same parts so I would expect your final outlay to be close. You can go stock and then do the boutique caps as money allows. Building your own case will save you $100 too.

Clarinet PCB $89
Digi-Key $107
AES $85
NOS tubes (Jim McShane) $79.50
Case $0

Total Price Stock Clarinet $360.50, with standard caps you might be up to $400.

I used the optional boutique caps (12 total) - Sonicap, Sonicap Platinum, & Mundorf Siiver/Oil $193.25

DaveC113 · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 01:57 pm »

Quote from: WGH on 2 Sep 2007, 05:27 am

Dave,

Here is what a Clarinet would cost using what I spent on the Hagtech phono parts. The Clarinet uses many of the same parts so I would expect your final outlay to be close. You can go stock and then do the boutique caps as money allows. Building your own case will save you $100 too.

Clarinet PCB $89
Digi-Key $107
AES $85
NOS tubes (Jim McShane) $79.50
Case $0

Total Price Stock Clarinet $360.50, with standard caps you might be up to $400.

I used the optional boutique caps (12 total) - Sonicap, Sonicap Platinum, & Mundorf Siiver/Oil $193.25

That sounds like a good idea. I'll have put a list of parts on a spreadsheet and see what I come up with. I just spent $89 on 2 blackgate power supply caps and 2 Jupiter input coupling caps for the Trends

... I'll have to be a bit more conservative with the parts for the pre, but as you said I can upgrade later.

It will be interesting to see how the XRS do with the kt88 and el34 tube amps... maybe I'll go with an integrated amp if they don't sacrafice the good qualities of the Trends amp. I'm thinking a tube pre with the Trends will give me the best of both...

Dave

macrojack · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 02:13 pm »

See what you can get this for:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1193555501

Another possibility is a Music Reference RM-5. They don't come up often but they seem to go for about $450.
It is Roger Modjeski all the way and has an excellent phono section on board as well.

A Melos SHA-1, if you can find, it also sells for under $500 but it is line only.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 02:55 pm »

Hi Dave,
I think it is obvious from the responses that it is time for the Adcom to go. Adcom was decent for the money but going with a tube pre, even an affordable one, will provide you with a better sense of musicality. The Adcom, from what I remember, is a bit dry and boring as compared to a tube unit.

I too think going with a tube unit will bring you into a whole new world of listening enjoyment.

Another option for you is the Ming-Da MC-7 also available from Pacific Valve. Usually around the $500 mark. This is a very nice sounding unit outof the box and you can start tweaking it as your budget allows.

doug s. · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 05:54 pm »

i would say many of the suggestions for a tubed pre are good, (especially the melos sha-1 - i am partial as i love my modded melos ma333r), but i wouldn't write off the dared sl2000. (a dared yust sold for $300 used on agon, in a day, another is adwertised f/s for $500.) a bud of mine has the dared, & he sez it's comparable to the rogue 99 magnum he used to own, & that it's better than a vtl tl5.5 he a-b'd it with... as he lives in ny & i'm in md, i have never heard it...

doug s.

warnerwh · « **Reply #19 on:** 3 Sep 2007, 10:47 pm »

If you're not familiar with tube gear let me offer this advice.

Tube preamps can vary wildly on their sonic signature. What works for one person's ears/system may be wrong for you. If you can get an idea of how tubey the the ones you're looking at are described by owners this would help. An Audio Research LS 16 I had sounded very close to SS but definitely weaker in the bass. The midrange was better though.

Some tube preamps will make the sound into a syrupy mess but some people like that. Then of course you've got character filling in all the in between possibilities.

So make sure you get preamps at a fair price so you can get your money back if need be. That old Adcom preamp is far better than most people give it credit for btw. I'd hold on to it while I tried different tube preamps if you can afford to.