Long interconnects or long speaker wire?

ctviggen · « **on:** 30 Aug 2007, 04:10 pm »

I am planning on rotating my system, which will necessitate either long interconnects or long speaker wire. By "long", I mean around 30 feet or so. Currently, I'm using 30 foot lengths of speaker wire for my surrounds, but I'm not sure I want to do that for my main speakers and center channel. To me, the long (balanced) interconnects make the most sense, because these should have high common-mode noise resistance. On the other hand, I've seen arguments saying that it's better to use long speaker wire.

What are your thoughts -- long balanced interconnects or long speaker wire?

Also, can you recommend any places to buy such interconnects or speaker wire? I'm not looking for cheap but not the most expensive either. Currently, I have all Bolder Cable stuff, which I love, but I don't think I could afford it in 30 foot lengths.

martyo · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 04:27 pm »

Long speaker wires. www.bluejeanscable.com
Might to be too cheap for you but they work just fine. Put the money you save in your other gear or buy more music.

Toka · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 04:31 pm »

What martyo said.

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 04:45 pm »

Yes, you're thinking is correct -- long balanced interconnects is the way to go. You want to minimize the voltage drop across the speaker cable so keep them as short as possible.

I've been very happy with Blue Jeans Cable for all cabling.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 04:49 pm »

I'd go with long speaker cable. Mapleshade agrees with this approach too, FWIW...

I have had good luck with Anti-Cable speaker wire: http://www.anticables.com/home.html

CSI · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 05:26 pm »

Electrical engineers and audiophiles often disagree, but on this issue there is a consensus. Go with longer interconnects. However, I respect the minority viewpoint expressed by Mapleshade so you pays your money and takes your choice. Actually, you shouldn't get into too much trouble with 30' runs of either unless you are in a high RFI area in which case the balanced IC's might save the day. Your preamp output impedance and your amp input impedance could have an effect on lengths as well. In any case, an e-mail to your equipment mfg. for their recommendation/views wouldn't hurt.

Along with the above noted purveyors of good cables at reasonable prices you might also check with Better Cables and Signal. I've had good luck with both.

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 07:02 pm »

As the sum of the output impedance of the amp and the impedance of the speaker cable increases, the frequency response of the amplifier begins to track the impedance curve of the speaker. Typically, this is not what you want. So keep speaker cable large gauge and short to reduce its influence.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 07:32 pm »

My guess why some people like longer speaker cables/shorter ICs is that the capacitance of the IC has a greater effect than a long run of speaker wire. Higher capacitance ICs have less focus, they smear the sound, a result of time domain errors. If you own speakers that don't keep phase and timing intact than perhaps its better to have long ICs, and this is why people disagree on this.

I welcome corrections to this theory from people with more experience of course...

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 08:36 pm »

Quote from: Bob Reynolds on 30 Aug 2007, 07:02 pm

As the sum of the output impedance of the amp and the impedance of the speaker cable increases, the frequency response of the amplifier begins to track the impedance curve of the speaker. Typically, this is not what you want. So keep speaker cable large gauge and short to reduce its influence.

And what are all the other factors involved, and their direct, quantitative affect on the sound?

What is the resistance of the cable(s) in question (per ft) and approximately what proportion of the speakers' mean impedance does this represent?

Quoting one theoretical factor with no specifics and no consideration of all the other factors involved doesn't really get us far.

As for me, I prefer short speaker cables (after much experimentation) because it tends to sound *slightly* better with my gear & my speakers. Then again, now all the runs are rather short.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 09:00 pm »

I've always considered low level signals (IC's) need to be kept shortest due to more potential radio and electromagnetic issues the longer lengths are subject to...and capacitance issues and related high frequency losses of longer runs for them(or, indeed, high capacitance to begin with).

An IC will act more and more as antenna the longer it's length (shielding of course mitigates this, but it doesn't halt the process entirely and some feel, myself included, heavy shielding adds additional issues to the 'sound')

Which leaves the choice of longer runs, and of higher level signals, to the speaker cables for me.

I can't say I've ever experimented otherwise....I just left my elementary understanding of electric transmission guide me on this. Right now I use 1 meter IC's and 5' runs of speaker cable so it's not an issue...and hasn't been in the past for me at all

So, my vote is short IC's and long speaker cables

Dan Driscoll · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Sep 2007, 05:27 pm »

If you're using single ended (RCA) interconnects there should be no argument, keep them short and go with longer speaker wire runs.

It's a different story with balanced (XLR) ICs, they are designed for longer runs, they typically have better shielding and of course, excellent common mode noise rejection. In an environment with moderate or high levels of RFI, long balanced IC runs are probably better than long speaker wire runs. I would also recommend long balanced ICs over long speaker wires when using tube amps, which tend to be more sensitive to the effects of long speakers wires than SS amps. But in a relatively low RFI/EMI environment, with a SS amp, I would go with long speaker wires over long IC runs. It's much less expensive and I don't think there will be any audible difference, unless there are special circumstances.

zybar · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Sep 2007, 04:17 pm »

Guys,

Given how my HT is going to be setup, I am probably looking at speaker cable runs around 50' in order to do things properly.

If I go with some 10-gauge cable from Blue Jeans Cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm), does anybody see any issues with that?

Thanks,

George

Toka · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Sep 2007, 04:19 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 5 Sep 2007, 04:17 pm

Guys,

Given how my HT is going to be setup, I am probably looking at speaker cable runs around 50' in order to do things properly.

If I go with some 10-gauge cable from Blue Jeans Cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm), does anybody see any issues with that?

That should work more than fine for 50 feet...maybe double-check with Kurt (BJC) to make sure, but if that doesn't work, I don't know what will.

zybar · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Sep 2007, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: Toka on 5 Sep 2007, 04:19 pm

Quote from: zybar on 5 Sep 2007, 04:17 pm
Guys,

Given how my HT is going to be setup, I am probably looking at speaker cable runs around 50' in order to do things properly.

If I go with some 10-gauge cable from Blue Jeans Cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm), does anybody see any issues with that?

That should work more than fine for 50 feet...maybe double-check with Kurt (BJC) to make sure, but if that doesn't work, I don't know what will.

Very true...10-gauge is some pretty serious cable.

George

art · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Sep 2007, 04:33 pm »

50' speaker runs are also an antenna. And since most amps use feedback at the output terminal.........well, yes, it is lower impedance, but not zero impedance.

Taking into account how much copper goes into big speaker cables........

And how much the resistance will be if they are not big......

Not such an easy decision, is it?

For rear channels, you can get by with a smaller cable. In that case, longer speaker runs. For main channels.........i.e., the ones that also work for 2 channel........longer interconnects.

Yes, the risk of RFI pickup is greater. In which case, balanced has the advantage over unbalanced. All interconnects will pick up some RFI, and depending on the frequency range of the offending noise, lots of copper on the cable (shield) is the only effective way to get rid of it.

Pat

WEEZ · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Sep 2007, 04:49 pm »

George, I think in your case the 10 ga. Belden will be more than adequate. (It's about 1 ohm per 1000 ft.) My brother has this stuff in his walls to connect speakers throughout his house. (The run to the bedroom is over 150 ft. with no issues.)

You could probably get by with 12 ga. for 50 ft., but the 10 ga. is good stuff.

WEEZ

zybar · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Sep 2007, 04:58 pm »

Quote from: art on 5 Sep 2007, 04:33 pm

50' speaker runs are also an antenna. And since most amps use feedback at the output terminal.........well, yes, it is lower impedance, but not zero impedance.

Taking into account how much copper goes into big speaker cables........

And how much the resistance will be if they are not big......

Not such an easy decision, is it?

For rear channels, you can get by with a smaller cable. In that case, longer speaker runs. For main channels.........i.e., the ones that also work for 2 channel........longer interconnects.

Yes, the risk of RFI pickup is greater. In which case, balanced has the advantage over unbalanced. All interconnects will pick up some RFI, and depending on the frequency range of the offending noise, lots of copper on the cable (shield) is the only effective way to get rid of it.

Pat

Pat,

These long runs are for my front three channels that are being powered by an ATI 1506 amp.

So you think longer rca ic's would be better than long cables?

George

doug s. · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Sep 2007, 12:43 am »

Quote from: zybar on 5 Sep 2007, 04:58 pm

Quote from: art on 5 Sep 2007, 04:33 pm
50' speaker runs are also an antenna. And since most amps use feedback at the output terminal.........well, yes, it is lower impedance, but not zero impedance.

Taking into account how much copper goes into big speaker cables........

And how much the resistance will be if they are not big......

Not such an easy decision, is it?

For rear channels, you can get by with a smaller cable. In that case, longer speaker runs. For main channels.........i.e., the ones that also work for 2 channel........longer interconnects.

Yes, the risk of RFI pickup is greater. In which case, balanced has the advantage over unbalanced. All interconnects will pick up some RFI, and depending on the frequency range of the offending noise, lots of copper on the cable (shield) is the only effective way to get rid of it.

Pat

Pat,

These long runs are for my front three channels that are being powered by an ATI 1506 amp.

So you think longer rca ic's would be better than long cables?

George

if it were me, i'd definitely relocate the amp, & run a long i/c w/shorter speaker cabling...

doug s.

Toka · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Sep 2007, 02:28 am »

Quote from: zybar on 5 Sep 2007, 04:58 pm

These long runs are for my front three channels that are being powered by an ATI 1506 amp.

So you think longer rca ic's would be better than long cables?

How long are the IC's going to be as it stands?

rajacat · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Sep 2007, 09:29 pm »

After some experimentation, I easily prefer long IC's and short speaker cables with my rig.

I'm biamping my Omega Hemp Dipoles with two Trends 10.1's. I first tried 8' IC's (Blue Jeans Cable LC-1) with 18" 14 gauge twisted silver speaker cable. I found the sound extremely detailed and with excellent separation but a little bright. Next I tried 6' of 12gauge twisted magnet wire speaker cable with 3' BJC LC-1 interconnects. This had a nice mellow tone, but it lacked distinct separation, had a relatively constricted soundstage and didn't image as well. I then mixed the long interconnects with 18" of 12 gauge magnet wire and the somewhat bright tone was tamed a bit, the expansive soundstage returned and separation/imaging were excellent.