LCD Monitors for photography?

drphoto · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 Aug 2007, 02:50 am »

Jeezus. $6K to get full gamut? (the Eizo) Isn't computer stuff supposed to get cheaper?

Martyn · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 Aug 2007, 04:15 am »

Several decades ago I worked for a company that made very high-end studio systems for the pre-press industry. In those days, of course, there were only CRT displays. We used to buy ours from Barco because it was critical that the colours were correct and Barco made good monitors. A quick search shows that they are still in business and still producing good monitors. See http://www.pnwx.com/Equipment/Digital/Displays/Barco/?gclid=CM-C69mY_o0CFQf_YAodOGLrPw.

drphoto · « **Reply #22 on:** 18 Aug 2007, 04:29 am »

Last I saw...Barco was done w/ CRT too. They made THE industry standard, but crazy spendy! Most industry insiders thought the Artisan was a close runner up for a lot less (though still significant ) amount.

LCDs suck....at least the one's I've seen. You couldn't give me one. The day my Sony dies is the day I retire.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #23 on:** 18 Aug 2007, 04:53 am »

Quote from: drphoto on 18 Aug 2007, 02:13 am

A client of mine had one of those pricey Apple Cinema things in their studio and I thought it was unusable for retouch work. Now maybe it was just setup wrong, but it had a very restricted gamut, non linear greyscale, and who the hell knows about the white point.

Caveat - I don't know how your client had his/her's set up, and I'm no expert by any definition. That said, I've spent a lot of time tinkering with the settings on my Cinema Display and I'm reasonably pleased with the results. It still pales in comparison to the best CRTs IMO, but what doesn't?

I tried to buy a super high-end Sony CRT a few years ago after learning they were ceasing production, but I couldn't find one.

I'd prefer to have the best of the best - like most everyone else on the planet - but I'm not a pro like you and some of the others here. Consequently, unlike you, my 'needs' are in fact wants, and I try to allow for that when it comes to redistributing funds from my bank account to someone else's. I'd love to spend $5k, $6k or even more for a state of the art display without thinking twice, but that ain't gonna happen. Unfortunately for you and others, you may soon have no other choice.

IOW...

The Cinema Display may be better than you think, but
I don't need the quality your profession demands, so my gold might still be garbage to you. Nevertheless,
I understand and sympathize with your position.

Robert57 · « **Reply #24 on:** 18 Aug 2007, 02:11 pm »

I bought the NEC Multisync 2090Uxi LCD (their highest end LCD) about a year ago and have been pleased with the color and the wide angle of view. I also was very reluctant to move away from from my old Sony CRT, but when it started fading I thought I'd see if I could find a pro-quality LCD alternative. This 2090 xi is the base monitor LaCie uses in its pro monitors and has 12 bit color. NEC also offers a color calibration package for pro use, which I have not tried. This NEC monitor is so good, and handsome on the desk, I no longer miss my Sony CRT.

navi · « **Reply #25 on:** 18 Aug 2007, 04:42 pm »

The Problems I've had with CRT's in the past is once they get older than 2 years the colours weren't as good anymore- After 3 it was impossible to calibrate.It also had colour shifts in certain areas.

CRT's were better in quality but i prefer LCD's - esp. when I work in a tiny office and the CRt's generate a lot of heat + they took u a lot of space on my desk....... I had no where to put my bottle of wine or decanter on the desk. OUTRAGE!!!

And the flickering CRT gave me headaches.

ctviggen · « **Reply #26 on:** 18 Aug 2007, 06:14 pm »

Flickering CRT? I can honestly say I've never seen a CRT flicker. Are you sure it wasn't the refresh rate of the graphics card? I like the small footprint of LCD, but my old CRT's picture was head and shoulders above my LCD's.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #27 on:** 18 Aug 2007, 09:41 pm »

Sometimes CRT's can have some flicker if you have the refresh rate at 60hz.
It is worse if you have any flourescent lighting. Usually, your refresh rate can
be set higher and that should eliminate the prob.

As for the LCD thing, have had great luck with the current cinema display.
We use the LA Cie 321 for critical color and I've been extremely impressed.

A lot depends on whether you do this for fun or if you earn a living with it.

The other part is just being able to calibrate your display accurately enough to
your output device. You are never going to be able to nail the color perfect on
screen, because every color device has a different gamut.

I can't imagine having to deal with a big CRT anymore.... Even when I was working
in prepress, we always did color by the numbers anyway, so the screen wasn't
even that important. I've never trusted a screen for calibration.

Imperial · « **Reply #28 on:** 18 Aug 2007, 10:11 pm »

I have a CRT, a Samsung.
It is called SyncMaster 959nf.
I've not seen flat screen that can touch it so far.
http://computing.kelkoo.co.uk/ps_342819/114401.html
It was 1100$ when I bought it. It is still running strong!
This baby is way sick in the picture! Really sharp!
One of the best CRT 19 inch monitors made back 5-6 years now.

Imperial

Imperial · « **Reply #29 on:** 18 Aug 2007, 10:30 pm »

NEW EGG has some NEC's still left.
And this is just plain cool:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000CRI8AU/ref=dp_olp_2/102-9458235-5427304?ie=UTF8&qid=1187476387&sr=8-2
Zo, not available anymore them CRT's? Some are left...

And as for the famed sony... Well they are still available...!
http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Dell-FD-Trinitron-P1110-21-inch-Monitor/663116/product.html?cid=82124
This is basically a Sony Artisan (innards) in a Dell shell, without the calibrator tool.

Imperial

tonyptony · « **Reply #30 on:** 18 Aug 2007, 11:05 pm »

Quote from: drphoto on 18 Aug 2007, 02:13 am

CRT are gone. But don't get the impression that all of them were better than any LCD. Plenty of crappy CRTs were out there. It's just that the best killed the best of the LCDs.

A client of mine had one of those pricey Apple Cinema things in their studio and I thought it was unusable for retouch work. Now maybe it was just setup wrong, but it had a very restricted gamut, non linear greyscale, and who the hell knows about the white point.

Dark days ahead, I'm afraid.

I'm hanging on for dear life to my 22" widescreen Silicon Graphics CRT display (Sony tube). At work we had a handful that were pretty much brand spanking new - that they decided to get rid of!

I grabbed one as fast as I could. Don't know what I'm going to do when it stops working.

nathanm · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 Aug 2007, 01:09 am »

Part of me still wants to see a Barco Megacalibrator in person. *sigh* This was a (I think) 30" tube with all sorts of hardcore hardware inside. High-falutin' specs and all. I was bummed that they didn't have any at the print trade show I went to awhile back in Chicago. Dammit...

drphoto · « **Reply #32 on:** 19 Aug 2007, 02:52 am »

Natham, If you ever find yourself in Louisville (for whatever reason that could be!) Come look at a Sony Artisan. Shadow detail to the last pixel. This is one thing LCDs can't do.

However LCDs do look nice for everyday crap. I might get one just for this sort of stuff (web, email, etc) and save the CRT for only retouch work. I guess Windoz supports multiple monitor now, but that was always one of the strengths of the Mac OS....you could run as many monitors as you had cards to support them. And that was there in the really old versions of the OS.

Off topic.... I loved Mac OS 8.6...I had it on an home built rig (based on a Daystar Genesis chassis) and it was bombproof. Never crashed. It's not as fast (obviously) as my modern rig, but in it's day, it was a killer setup. I had dual monitors on that....the Pressview and an 17" Sony for palettes.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #33 on:** 19 Aug 2007, 03:14 am »

Hey Doc,

There's a guy in San Diego selling a Sony Artisan on craigslist. The ad was posted 2 days ago, so maybe it's still available.

Wants $350 for it.

Maybe he'll take $500 and ship it to Louisville.

nathanm · « **Reply #34 on:** 19 Aug 2007, 03:41 am »

I was thinking about an Artisan myself, but I ended up adding old monitors I bought from work for cheap when we do our upgrades. CRT or LCD aside what I really really could never live without are multiple displays! I have a NEC Fp1350 and then this other 21" CRT whose make I can't remember considering I've taped up the front bezels with black gaffer tape. The NEC is nice, but of course has deteriorated a bit over the years and requires some TLC in regards to convergence. I was a CRT diehard until I saw the Cinema Display. (I didn't have a choice, that was what I was getting- IT's decision. *doh*) It didn't make me hate CRTs, but it did make me glad that LCDs didn't HAVE to suck so much. Not having to muck about with all the adjustments is also very nice. Perfect geometry and all of course.

Anyone ever seen the 200ppi IBM LCDs? That's the other thing I'd love to see. They're like 10 grand, require four video cards and whatnot but have resolution which I can only imagine.

JohnR · « **Reply #35 on:** 19 Aug 2007, 09:28 am »

Quote from: drphoto on 18 Aug 2007, 02:50 am

Jeezus. $6K to get full gamut? (the Eizo) Isn't computer stuff supposed to get cheaper?

Well, that's Australian prices, it would likely be a fair bit less for you

I've learnt heaps from this discussion. And I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't put the money into a printer instead. After all that's what is going to produce the end result. And just get a bigger CRT used on EBay and calibrate it as best I can -- there seem to be plenty of 21" Sony's available...

Levi · « **Reply #36 on:** 19 Aug 2007, 02:41 pm »

Most CRT displays don't die, they just become darker over the years.

I like the 30" Apple or the 30" Dell monitor. The 23" Apple or the 24" Dell is also not too bad considering the price less than usd$1,000.

drphoto · « **Reply #37 on:** 19 Aug 2007, 10:19 pm »

Hey thanks Double. I sent a email to find out if they'd ship. I'm sure that sucker will sell fast at that price.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #38 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 02:05 am »

Quote from: drphoto on 19 Aug 2007, 10:19 pm

Hey thanks Double.

You're welcome. Hope you get it!

DU

drphoto · « **Reply #39 on:** 21 Aug 2007, 08:02 pm »

Dang, the Artisan guy won't ship. If any of you live in San Diego, jump on it! You will not regret it.