[ctviggen]

George, that's outstanding!  The detail work looks great too.  Very nice and truly a great use of space for a weird room.  How are you going to mount the speakers? 

If I decide to go this route, mine won't look 1/1000 as nice.  I plan on slapping up some 2x4s and putting the screen on them. I may paint the 2x4s black or some other dark color.  In my case, I'm going to have to take it down when I leave, so the more temporary I can make it, the better. 

[bpape]

Looking good George.  Nice job with the Mahogony.

Bryan

[zybar]

Looking good George.  Are you doing all this work yourself ?

I got my new projector hung yesterday without much difficulty.  After some head scratching I think I've figured out the best way to mount the screen (Da-Lite Tensioned Cosmo Electrosol) and hopefully will get it up later in the week.  If I end up taking pictures I may start another thread in this circle.

I worked with a carpenter friend, so I certainly can't take all the credit.

It was good having somebody who really knows what he is doing there to help guide and make sure something doesn't go down the wrong path.

George

[zybar]

George, that's outstanding!  The detail work looks great too.  Very nice and truly a great use of space for a weird room.  How are you going to mount the speakers? 

If I decide to go this route, mine won't look 1/1000 as nice.  I plan on slapping up some 2x4s and putting the screen on them. I may paint the 2x4s black or some other dark color.  In my case, I'm going to have to take it down when I leave, so the more temporary I can make it, the better. 

Thanks Bob.

Unfortunately, the routing work doesn't show up to well in my pics.

The speakers I will be using are Salk Song Towers, so mounting is not an issue since they are floor standing speakers.  They will simply go 6-12" behind the screen fabric.  I believe Jim is going to try and post a picture or two of the three speakers later today. 

As for temporary vs. permanent...

This frame can easily come down with minimal impact if I were to sell the house.  The only part that is attached to anything is the header that is nailed into the ceiling.  Given the size and weight of the frame and the multiple cross beams, it wasn't necessary to do more than that from a structural standpoint (trust me when I say that the frame isn't going anywhere!)  Patch some nail holes in the ceiling and it was like it was never there.

If you want to keep your costs down, you can simply trim it out with less expensive wood or even go with a nice finished plywood + trim.

Now who wants to do the real hard work for me?  Filling in nail holes, sanding, staining, etc...

George

[WGH]

Now who wants to do the real hard work for me?  Filling in nail holes, sanding, staining, etc...

George

I would love to... but I am too jammed up with deadlines. I can make your work easier though, sand, stain, and finish the wood first, then fill the nail holes with Color Putty http://www.colorputty.com/index.html. You can achieve a better color match by mixing different shades together or adding some paint tinting colors. After you fill the holes with color putty, clean up the haze with a dark tinted wax like Deft Satin Finishing Wax. A dark wax will dry dark, a clear wax will work, but any wax left in the cracks will dry with a white color.

Filling the nails holes first with a hard filler like Famowood, http://www.woodnshop.com/Famowood.htm will work but the filler gets into the grain around the nail holes and usually leaves a shadow that stains differently than the surrounding wood, this highlights the holes instead of hiding them. You will have to sand a lot more to make sure the shadow is gone and you never know how the Famowood will stain out.

Wayne

[zybar]

Now who wants to do the real hard work for me?  Filling in nail holes, sanding, staining, etc...

George

I would love to... but I am too jammed up with deadlines. I can make your work easier though, sand, stain, and finish the wood first, then fill the nail holes with Color Putty http://www.colorputty.com/index.html. You can achieve a better color match by mixing different shades together or adding some paint tinting colors. After you fill the holes with color putty, clean up the haze with a dark tinted wax like Deft Satin Finishing Wax. A dark wax will dry dark, a clear wax will work, but any wax left in the cracks will dry with a white color.

Filling the nails holes first with a hard filler like Famowood, http://www.woodnshop.com/Famowood.htm will work but the filler gets into the grain around the nail holes and usually leaves a shadow that stains differently than the surrounding wood, this highlights the holes instead of hiding them. You will have to sand a lot more to make sure the shadow is gone and you never know how the Famowood will stain out.

Wayne

Thanks Wayne.

I was going to use Minwax Polyshade to help cut down on the time things take.

I am guessing you would probably suggest doing a separate stain and poly vs. the all in one?

George

[WGH]

The Poly will work, I usually do exterior finishing for my doors so I always think of using separate satin and finishes, the all-in-one stain/finish for your small job sounds perfect. I would still fill the nail holes last.

[klh]

George... lookin' good . Where to do you plan on putting your electronics? I would think you'd be able build in a rack next to the screen that would look beatiful and allow easy access from the rear as well as great ventilation. You are one lucky guy .

[zybar]

George... lookin' good . Where to do you plan on putting your electronics? I would think you'd be able build in a rack next to the screen that would look beatiful and allow easy access from the rear as well as great ventilation. You are one lucky guy .

I haven't decided yet.

Most likely it will be at one end of the room or other.    

There are pro's and con's to placing it in either location and neither seems to be better than the other.

In either location, it will be easily accessible and out of the way.

George

[klh]

In either location, it will be easily accessible and out of the way.

That would be nice. I'm envious of your project.

[zybar]

Ok, here are a few pictures with the Salk Song Towers quickly put into place.  These aren't the exact final spots, but you get the idea...







George

[ctviggen]

As for temporary vs. permanent...

This frame can easily come down with minimal impact if I were to sell the house.  The only part that is attached to anything is the header that is nailed into the ceiling.  Given the size and weight of the frame and the multiple cross beams, it wasn't necessary to do more than that from a structural standpoint (trust me when I say that the frame isn't going anywhere!)  Patch some nail holes in the ceiling and it was like it was never there.

If you want to keep your costs down, you can simply trim it out with less expensive wood or even go with a nice finished plywood + trim.

Good ideas, George.  I think my main problem is the tile floor, which is remarkably uneven.  However, if I could conquer this, I think you've given me some great ideas (and I just need to put the center behind the screen -- the front speakers will be into the room). 

[jermmd]

George,

That's really looking nice. I like the way the drivers all sit right above the frame. It should really sound awesome for movies. I thought the speakers were going to be too close together but it looks like you have plenty of space. It's so nice to hide the speakers behind the screen. With the frame you made, the theater will have a really clean look. Well done!

[zybar]

Thanks guys.

I need to play around with placement and might even elevate the speakers a little more by placing them on top of something.

I am also trying to decide what to do with the opening below the screen.  Right now I am leaning towards covering it with GOM fabric and possibly some Muslin for blackout qualities.  I just need to be careful not to do something that has a negative sonic impact.

George

[bpape]

Lift the speakers so the acoustic center is 1/3 to 1/2 up the screen.  You're not going to hurt anything on the bottom.

Bryan

[zybar]

Lift the speakers so the acoustic center is 1/3 to 1/2 up the screen.  You're not going to hurt anything on the bottom.

Bryan

Bryan,

Is that so the voices will really sound like they are coming form the middle of the screen?

George

[samplesj]

Looks great so far.  The SmX screen material does look cool (especially the rotatability to avoid moire).

I'm don't know about you, but I actually enjoy playing around with the theater room.  I just finished my last set of changes (riser in back for overflow seating) and while its nice to sit down and watch something now, I'm sure in a few days I'll be tweaking something again.

Lift the speakers so the acoustic center is 1/3 to 1/2 up the screen.  You're not going to hurt anything on the bottom.

Is that so the voices will really sound like they are coming form the middle of the screen?

I bet it is so you reduce any comb filtering (or whatever the proper term is) problems from the bottom frame bar.

Good ideas, George.  I think my main problem is the tile floor, which is remarkably uneven.  However, if I could conquer this, I think you've given me some great ideas (and I just need to put the center behind the screen -- the front speakers will be into the room). 

Just keep in mind that everything is a trade off.  While an acoustically transparent screen lets you put the speakers behind it in a more "correct" location, it isn't going to allow appreciable gain.  You've got to have gain to go big.  I've got my center ceiling mounted and I wouldn't trade my high power screen with the center up there for an unity gain (or slightly more) AT screen with the center in the right height.

[bpape]

George,

Getting it up a little does both put the dialog and image more in line with the screen. It also as was suggested, get you farther from the framing. 

Samples,

Personal preference.  You're right if you want to go big - with a CRT PJ.  The issue with high power screens is off axis unevenness in brightness if you do too much gain.  Couple that with the super high brightness and borderline blacks of most digital PJs, and I personally don't like the results.  Things just look washed out to me.  Blacks are grey, not sitting in the center seat causes dimness on the opposite side of the screen, etc.

I also personally find the center up high by the ceiling distracting.  When you get pans that do a vertical arc, it's noticible.  Also, going way up high with a normal ceiling height will cause SBIR issues that will change the voicing of the center in relation to the left and right.  3 identical speakers all behind a screen that has little to no attenuation below 10kHz IMO is preferable.  Identical voicing, excellent panning, good lock of dialog to the screen, etc.

Lastly, having the speakers behind the screen allows for more space between the speaker and the side walls which reduces SBIR issues.

To each their own - just my 2 cents.

Bryan

[zybar]

Just keep in mind that everything is a trade off.  While an acoustically transparent screen lets you put the speakers behind it in a more "correct" location, it isn't going to allow appreciable gain.  You've got to have gain to go big.  I've got my center ceiling mounted and I wouldn't trade my high power screen with the center up there for an unity gain (or slightly more) AT screen with the center in the right height.

For the past five years I have been using a Stewart Firehawk screen, so I am fine with a unity gain screen.  This is a dedicated space and it will be totally light controlled.

I am pretty sure that this was the right choice for me, but won't know with 100% certainty until I get the fabric on the frame and fire things up!

George

[samplesj]

Just keep in mind that everything is a trade off.  While an acoustically transparent screen lets you put the speakers behind it in a more "correct" location, it isn't going to allow appreciable gain.  You've got to have gain to go big.  I've got my center ceiling mounted and I wouldn't trade my high power screen with the center up there for an unity gain (or slightly more) AT screen with the center in the right height.

For the past five years I have been using a Stewart Firehawk screen, so I am fine with a unity gain screen.  This is a dedicated space and it will be totally light controlled.

I am pretty sure that this was the right choice for me, but won't know with 100% certainty until I get the fabric on the frame and fire things up!

George

For the size screen you are running, you shouldn't really need the gain.  Its all area based so just an inch or two more matters a lot.  Since you don't need the gain, why not take advantage of the AT material.  For that room with that size screen, its a great choice.

Just 30% more diagonal needs over 60% more lumens.  So even though I've gotten light control to the level that I need to weatherstrip the door frame because that tiny bit of halo from where the sides aren't perfectly square with the wall is the brightest light in the room I still need gain.  I'm not running a CRT, but instead a JVC RS1 rated at 800 lumens.  I'll just point out that projector makers "over" estimate brightness and of course any tweaking you do to settings reduce the brightness even more.  As a bulb ages you will also see a reduction so Bryan's comment that only CRTs need gain is not at all accurate if you shoot for a minimum 13 ft lamberts at the end of bulb life.  More never hurts!  Also many of the disadvantages Bryan cited are much less observable with retro-reflective screens vs angular reflective screens.  I wasn't trying to question Bryan's recommendation/sale of this SmX screen to George, but rather point out the trade off to others that were planning on following George's design.  We've gotten off topic from George's thread so I'll leave it there.