[yooper]

I believe I have a pretty good ear, but have always wondered how well trained they really are.

Do I have an "audiophile ear" simply because I have been listening to two channel music for some time?  Nope, no more than saying I am a professional driver because I drive everyday.  I think proper training is important.  I know that sounds somewhat silly.

While our equipment, room and personal desires dictate the final outcome of what we hear, there must be room for improving our ears. 

How do you learn to hear, what you don't hear now?  Something may be there, but your brain and ear may not allow it to be heard.
 
I don't think there is any easy answer, but look forward to some pointers.

What prompted this question was listening to Cheskey's Ultimate Demonstration disc.  Before each track, a voice talks briefly of the upcoming track telling you what to listen for.  I found this extremely helpful with some tracks, as I now know some of these subtle nuances would have gone unnoticed had they not been pointed out.

So, I conclude my ear is not as good as I thought. 

How confident are you in your ears?

Any advice, or thoughts?

Mark

[BobM]

This may sound silly, but it worked for me. Try building something audiophile from scratch (I started with DIY cables). Or you could try and self-modify something like a CD player. You will be forced to listen critically as you change things. This will teach you how to discern the minute things that can change in a design as it progresses, and hopefully improves.

Now perhaps you don't have the time, or the inclination, or the tools, or the training, etc. Well, you can always learn ... it is a hobby after all, and this part can truly be fun.

Now, that said, this will definitely not teach you how to listen for enjoyment. It will teach you how to listen critically, whcih is very different and a curse unto itself.

Goo luck with your quest.
Bob

[WEEZ]

Like with most anything, the more you do it...the better you get at it. Remember the old saying, "practice makes perfect"?

Be carefull what you wish for, however.....if you get too good at it, like some audiophiles, you'll hear stuff that isn't there.

WEEZ

[Russell Dawkins]

Be careful what you wish for, however.....if you get too good at it, like some audiophiles, you'll hear stuff that isn't there.

well said!! 

[nathanm]

There's an ear-training disc set I bought awhile back...can't remember the name of it.  Golden Ear something or other.  Anyway, if you go through the exercises you will learn to identify frequency bands and whatnot.  It's rather hardcore, I myself didn't have the willpower to sit and listen to pink noise for hours, but I'm sure if I did it would be very helpful knowledge to have.

The Chesky disc is nice too, I think if a person actually sat through that entire thing true Audiophile nerdidity would be achieved.  Still, it cannot hold a candle to the Sheffield Drum & Track disc which will drain your will to live.

[Wayner]

If you have to "train your ears" to listen for something, I'd get a new stereo. Listening to good music doesn't require a "trained ear". Learing how to tune a piano does.

That's my 2 cents worth.

 aa

[jules]

potentially dangerous, ear training ... can get hard to hear the music for the notes.

Is there an ear-untraining CD for safety?

jules

[lonewolfny42]

Still, it cannot hold a candle to the Sheffield Drum & Track disc which will drain your will to live.

...... ....I guess your happy nathan that you sold it to me....

[Zero]

Cotton Swabs. Yep, I think that just about covers it.

[tanchiro58]

Do not listen to your own system and your own music all the time. If you do that you will end up to say " my system is the best suitable for my taste and you have never got "golden ears" or "audiophile ears." Get to know and listen to different systems or audio shows especially the best system you known.

[nathanm]

That was you, lonewolf?  I knew I sold it to someone here but wasn't sure who.  I am sure the disc has variable effects on people.  I am very glad it has not drained your will to live as it did me!

All audiophile demo CDs are essentially a means to shift one's focus away from what first attracted you to good sound in the first place.  I doubt most people got turned onto Hi-Fi thanks to some nerdy demo disc, it was their already extant love of real music.  But these discs are also like a dangerous drug because they satisfy your lust for pristine technical performance whilst simultaneously draining your will to live with incredibly dull musical content.  It's a double edged sword.  But really now, are there any single edged swords around?  Wouldn't that be a meat cleaver or a kitchen knife instead?

[stereocilia]

This may be a little off topic because it's not especially for audiophiles, but there is an ear-training program called LACE designed for people who have trouble hearing speech in noise.  It's an adaptive program that gets progressively harder and tracks your progress.  Like I said, it's more like a rehabilitation tool than something audiophiles would be interested in but I'll link it:

http://www.neurotone.com/lace-basics.html

[Big Red Machine]

Well Mark, your system will have a "sound" very soon and from henceforth you will be comparing everything to that sound.  But if you spend several hours each week glued to your system you will become sensitized to how the sound will change as you make cabling or component changes.  What I find interesting is how I can hear something new on a familiar recording by "upgrading" sometimes.  So I think we can learn to identify the strengths and weaknesses through training (hours of listening).  As you found with the Chesky recoding, you can also evaluate your system by looking for width, depth, height, instrument separation, trueness of voice, etc.  You're gonna have a ball pretty soon.  I'll lay some more recodings on you as well.

[Ethan Winer]

Mark,

How do you learn to hear, what you don't hear now?  Something may be there, but your brain and ear may not allow it to be heard.

Buy a violin (or cello or clarinet etc) and join a community orchestra. I guarantee your sense of pitch and detail will improve enormously.

--Ethan

[BrianM]

It's about the music.  It's NOT about sterile frequency bands and drum tracks.  Audiophilia and masturbation should be viewed as two separate pastimes IMO.

If you want better ears take a music appreciation/aural skills class, and go listen to as much live music as possible.  If you're used to hearing live music your ears will tell you how closely your stereo and listening room approach that.

There's nothing inherently wrong with hifi demo CDs telling you what transparency and good imaging sound like, or whether your speakers can reproduce certain frequencies...but what's the point of a demo CD telling you all that?  The music you like to listen to may or may not be of demo CD quality.  A good system will make reference recordings sound awesome, good recordings sound great, and mediocre recordings sound listenable.  All of the above should be enjoyable if the music is good.  Demo CDs, OTOH, are generally not...

[ooheadsoo]

Mark,

How do you learn to hear, what you don't hear now?  Something may be there, but your brain and ear may not allow it to be heard.

Buy a violin (or cello or clarinet etc) and join a community orchestra. I guarantee your sense of pitch and detail will improve enormously.

--Ethan

Wow!  You have to be pretty brave to hop into an orchestra without knowing how to play violin!  Clarinet is probably a bad idea since they need to be strong and there're usually only a couple clarinetists needed per orchestra vs. 20-40 violinists.

[jules]

perhaps ooheadsoo, but quite a few less than perfect violinists have been known to hide in the mass of an orchestra  Otherwise I agree with Ethan that, if the ear is to be trained in any way playing an instrument is the best way to go, with listening to live music also high on the list.

jules

[ooheadsoo]

I've done my share of hiding out in the violins (mostly in the violas)    Winds are probably a no go, though, unless you join a wind ensemble.  Orchestra violin parts are usually pretty tough for beginners, if the orchestra is any good, that is.  Well, I guess you could just skip over the fast runs 

[Wayner]

I do have to say that most recordings have nothing to do with live sound. If your into rock like myself, most of the reverb is canned, and the rest highly compressed. I have made several live recordings with just mics and a mixer and it is definitely fun. you do learn the difference between live and canned, anyway.

[TheChairGuy]

Buy a violin (or cello or clarinet etc) and join a community orchestra. I guarantee your sense of pitch and detail will improve enormously.

--Ethan

I've been planning to do just that for a while...buy a violin and learn how to play it at least rudimentarily, that is, not ruin  an existing orchestra.  Of all the instruments, live violin is the hardest to get just right...CD never has gotten it for me, vinyl has (but not all cartridges). 

I've gotten home from a handful of orchestral concerts in the past couple years and tried to reproduce it in my system as accurately as I (recently) remember it within 30 minutes of leaving the hall....and keep coming up with the same verdict each time: my CD or (pricey) DAC's owned in that time couldn't reproduce it, and only the Grado cartridges (of 11 cartridges, 2 are Grados) did it commendably in my vinyl set-up.

I recently read the quality of the even the Chinese $59 jobbers you can find on ebay are quite good nowadays...perhaps not Cremona quality, but it'll be good enough, I think, to have an instrument to instruct me nearby for pitch and detail.

Thanks for reminding me to do it, Ethan.  I had meant to a couple months back, but life got busy on me 

John