[T37]

I have on order a fet valve 350 and Trancendant 8 pre from AVA. I will be using a Alesis Masterlink as a  CD transport,along with a project debut with blue point special cartrage. Interconnect are Kimber hero and speaker connect are Kimber 8tc.

My room measurements are 18' x 30' with a dining room to the right of it that opens up to 12' x 8' .I was using a Nad c370 amp along with a set of Kef Q7 speakers that were replaced by a used set of swan 6.1's.

Music: Lots of jazz and blues ,venturing into classical and still play a little hip hop.Looking for a speaker that can do all of the above.

I never felt satisfied with my set up,thus the up grade to AVA.I want to get the best performance from my gear it comes. Any help will greatly be appreciated.

If suggestions are offered please note budget will be under $2,500.

[yooper]

While I have only heard one of the three you ask of, I did hear the SongTower and can tell you that I was very, very impressed.

For the record, I own a pair of Salk HT3's and very much appreciate what they are capable of, and absoluty love them.  That said, I did not expect to hear the robust imaging, depth, bass and transparency that I did from a $1500.00 speaker.

Of course, there are only a handful of people that have had the opportunity to hear the SoundTowers since they are so new, so I doubt you will get many opinions based on experience.

Just know you can't go wrong with a speaker that has that Dennis Murphey/Jim Salk love built in! 

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

Mark

[JLM]

T37,

Welcome fellow TL lover!

As Joe D'Appolito states: "Transmission Line loudspeakers have long enjoyed a small, but dedicated following. The advantages of TL's are well known. They are essentially non-resonant enclosures, producing a deep, well-controlled bass response. For a given driver, bass response will extend well below that produced with either a vented or sealed enclosure using the same driver. Above a few hundred Hz, the line filling material completely absorbs the driver back wave, giving the TL an open, non-boxy sound."  And like a rear loaded horn, the sloped internal baffle helps to direct that midrange backwave away from coming straight back out through the semi-transparent cone material to reduce smearing.

The Vandy is the classic here, the historic variants are highly available used and at good prices, check audiogon.com.  Love the 6 dB/octave crossovers and stepped baffle, but don't like 2 crossovers or the passive radiator.

The Salk and Thor use Augspurger/King design.  The trade off I see there is driver quality in the Thor versus the convenience of the Salk being pre-built.  I'll always go with quality parts if given the choice, so I voted for the Thor.  Madisound is old school in their methods and quality of service.  But I'm not a fan of the MTM arrangement as it restricts vertical mid/bass imaging.

I've been listening to TLs for 30 years and currently own Bob Brines FTA-2000.  These speakers use "the mighty" Fostex F200A full range driver (8 inch, 90 dB/m/w, 8 ohms, 30 - 20,000 Hz raw) with a big Alnico magnet that Madisound currently sells for $388.50 each.  Bob sells speaker plans, panelized kits, assembled/unfinished cabinets, or fully completed speakers.  The completed FTA-2000 is in your price range.  The big 8 incher will "beam" above 4,000 Hz, but provides complete coherency for nearfield listening (and helps take the room effects out at those higher frequencies).  With a single listening position I've not found the beaming to be an issue.  Using single drivers means that you're running "active" by default.  IMO TL, single driver, and active are the only way to go.

Happy hunting.

[T37]

Gentlemen,

 Thank you for your very informative responces.The Salk was a personal recommendation from Frank of AVA and he did mention that they we're fairly new.I have heard the Vandee's and enjoyed them,I have also read great things about the Thor.In my search I have come across and have seen the Fostex mentioned with great respect being paid to it!.

It seems as though I've come to the right place to seek advice,And I thank you for the welcomes.

Is their a web site for the completed fostex ?

I also get the feeling that the Salk could be a great match with the AVA gear


Thank you again.

[macrojack]

Zu Druid. A used pair can be had for under $2K but you have to be quick to get them at that price. They turn over pretty fast because they are exceptional. New ones sell for $2800/pair.

They'll work with any amplifier because they present a very friendly 12 ohm load and have 101 db efficiency.
They can play very loud without breaking up and are easily placed in a room. Very good detail and excellent liveliness. Check into them.

They also have one of the highest resale values in the game and can be resold for what you paid very quickly. If your program is not designed to absorb depreciation, don't buy new.

[BrianM]

Get the SongTowers. Not because I've heard them, but because Jim is just a stellar guy to do business with and looks to be offering a serious speaker at an unreasonably low price.  If your budget is $2500 I think it would feel great to come in a grand below that, and have the extra money to put toward something else. Like, oh, say, an AVA DAC.  Or more recordings.  I'd wager the deed to my own system the Songs won't disappoint you.  Dennis Murphy designed the crossover for my speakers (Ellis 1801s, which are phenomenal IMO) and would not lead anyone astray.  If he's impressed by them, then they're impressive. (Speaking of the 1801s there's a pair for sale right now on agon for $1100, which would arguably be an even better deal for the money. FWIW I have the same amp as you, and had the T8 before switching to an Ultra SL.)

[macrojack]

Zu Druid has NO Crossover. Any speaker that employs a crossover network has to be designed around the goal of compensating for the crossover network in use. All passive crossovers introduce problems. This is why single driver speakers have become so popular. Multiple drivers must be co-ordinated in terms of time and phase so as to present a coherent sound. This objective can be approximated but cannot be accomplished absolutely if a crossover network is employed.

Another consideration concerning crossover networks is the power they gobble. Single driver speakers, as a rule, will be significantly more efficient. This means you need less amplifier power and affords you the option of applying your amplifier dollars to higher quality rather than higher wattage.

I'm recommending used product here because I want to encourage people to discover the advantages I've found. No one benefits from what I'm promoting except you and whoever you find to buy them from.

By the way, the Druid is designed around a sort of transmission line. The bass port is under the speaker firing at the floor. Bass response is tuned by adjusting the gap between the speaker plinth and the floor.

[T37]

I had the opportunity to hear the Druids at the HES show this May.I liked them, but don't feel that i could live with them long term. I realize this may sound weird considering my current speaker. They lacked weight in my very humble opinion.

[BrianM]

Never read anything bad about Zu Druids, would love to hear 'em myself. (Anyone in Columbus have them??) Good luck finding a used pair, though!  I see one on Audiogon that is already sold.  As for the single-driver vs. multi-driver thing I think it's fair to say both designs feature certain compromises, and that while a speaker like the Druid is indeed very efficient, the amp in question here (AVA 350), already purchased, renders the consideration moot.  It will drive big, less efficient speakers (I've heard it do so) quite well.  If T37 opens up his consideration to all the used speakers on Audiogon he'll certainly have a "fun" job ahead of him.  Of the four mentioned here I'd say he couldn't go wrong, and that's a good position to be in.  The good news is that these days a top shelf speaker can indeed be had (new) for under $2500.

[bluewax]

AZ Adagios likely could be had on the seconday market for your budget.
In my experience, they'd offer the versatility you seek. Enjoy the hunt!

Cheers, bw 

[BrianM]

Ok, I guess now I've read one "bad" thing about the Druids. 

If it's weight you want, or maximum bang for the buck (i.e. no sacrifice in the bass dept.) I would steer you toward some Revel F12 Concertas.  And, as it happens, there's a pair for sale on Audiogon for $950.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1191264164

[BrianM]

Speaking as a former F30 owner myself that is (which I drove with the AVA amp no problem).  At 50% off the price of the Songtowers I would be scratching my chin...

http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/706revel/

[T37]

Again,

I do not have the experience that most of you have.So don't consider my statement as a bad review..More specifically there where great remarks made about the druid.But my main concern is to have a speaker that can embody soulfulness and detail.

I have learned through my short journey into this hobby that recordings are a very important factor in how a system sounds .and with good recordings my humble set up has gotten me by this far.

However at the HES show I was allow to play a Wynton Marsalis CD in the Moscode /Joesph audio room That proved I need to step up the plate for real!!.

Not wanting to spend 15 grand in my pursuit?!?.AVA became my savour in electronics.So wanting to keep up with it and get the most that I can from it.

You all have made recommendations that reflect your experience and I am grateful for it.It could have be the fact that I was not interested in the choice of CD during the demo ? the druid did sound very very detailed it could play loud .

Which is why i initially like them but they did not sound soulful to me.

[Marbles]

I have not heard the Songtowers, but I have had the HT1's in my system and own the HT3's.

I have also heard the HT3's at Jim Salks house.  Jim uses AVA electronics.

I have also heard the Ellis 1801's  (Dennis Murphy designed crossover) and I had Dennis Murphy design crossovers for two sets of my custom norh speakers.  I think I have an idea of how the Songtowers might sound.

All speakers are designed with certain tradeoffs, whether it is if frequency response, price, quality of parts etc..

There is a reason that all speakers are not made with a single driver.

Jim uses AVA electronics because they mate well together, Frank uses Jim's speakers for the same reason.

Putting an audio system together is a lot like cooking.  Certain things just taste better (or worse) when mixed together.  It seems like if you get the pre/power amp and the speakers to sound good together, you are way ahead of the game.  Just add a nice source and cables and enjoy.

I vote for the Songtowers because I think you will be very happy with how they will sound with your existing gear. 

[BrianM]

Soulful...this is only conjecture, but based on what I've read about the Songtowers they sound like the ticket.  Why? because the depth of soundstage has been singled out by people who've heard them, as well as the smoothness and linearity of the bass response.  Those sound like soulful attributes to me.  I'm sure the Thors would be great too (the Seas W18 being one of the best midrange drivers around) but who knows, maybe more detail oriented or less "smooth" than the CA15s (magnesium vs. paper cones). I say that, but my speakers have W18s and they're smooth as silk to my ears, and then with a tube preamp...I'm clearly not helping you here am I.

[AB]

Can you wait three months?
Attend the RMAF and hear for yourself. There will be tens of speakers there to audition.
You might not have even have heard of your next speaker yet!

[T37]

BrianM LOL!! I think your leading me in the Right direction.

AB I have a co worker that will be relocating there at the end of the month so it is quite possible

You guy's are great!!!!!

[WEEZ]

I would second AB's recommendation.

WEEZ

[JLM]

Speakers are a very individual thing and as Marbles stated, there is no perfect speaker.  It's more a matter of determining what parameters are most important to you.  Take time to learn the lingo and what you like.  IMO live/unamplified music is the only possible gold standard, anything else has gone through microphones, studio work, source players, amps, and speakers that all affect the sound.  This could take a year in itself.

AVA is solid/common sense stuff.  Frank was here a year ago asking what speaker we'd recommend for his testing purposes, so you're in good company.  Realize that Salk/AVA now use and recommend each other's stuff so their opinions are bound to contain some bias.  Realize too that most of us are very supportive of "our own" here at AudioCircle. 

The Thor uses over $500 worth of Seas Excel drivers per speaker, that's impressive.  (Most speakers in this price range use drivers that cost less than $100 per speaker.)  Like I said above, I'd vote for quality parts.  With speakers, isn't the sound primarily a factor of the drivers used?

I've had 3 audio epiphanies over 30 years:  transmission line bass (huge, musical, fast, deep); single driver speakers (ideal for imaging, extremely coherent, best at conveying the heart of the music - the middle 7 octaves); active designs (one amp per driver, which allows a direct lock-step connection between amp and driver for incredible dynamics and unbelievable bass extension).

Here's the web address for Bob Brines:  http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/  He's a good guy, pleasant to deal with, does good work, and has more than fair pricing.

Frankly with your amp, you don't need or want high efficiency speakers (they'll reveal all sorts of minute system noises and greatly reduce the useable range of your volume control).

[zybar]

Can you wait three months?
Attend the RMAF and hear for yourself. There will be tens of speakers there to audition.
You might not have even have heard of your next speaker yet!

The problem with going this route, is that many of the rooms sound bad to god awful!!

This isn't necessarily the fault of the equipment, but rather what can happen under show conditions.

I wouldn't base any serious conclusions (positive or negative) solely off what you hear at any show.

Unfortunately, anything short of an in-home audition is a crap shoot.

George