[markC]

Jman,
Hope this works:http://www.venhaus1.com/diysilverinterconnects.html

[beat]

J,
follow the design scheme there. I substituted polyethelene (for plumbing icemakers) for the inner teflon. You can call Rio Grande for the five 9 silver 1800-545-6566. ask for dead soft, I used 24 guage I think. Get cardas silver gsmo rcas, thin teflon tube, shrink wrap, techflex or the braided tinned copper outer jacket from diycable.com, teflon tape and 1/4" pe tube from home depot, and that about covers it. I was impressed with the cardas rcas..very solid build and easy to work with. Make sure you get the ones with the wide opening to accept everything. For the money you wont be disappointed. They dont take long to assemble either really. I added an extra shrink wrap over the teflon tape but under the techflex on a pair as I thought it would add alittle dampening. Im sure it didnt hurt. another nice thing is you can make it exactly the length you need.
there is my two cents, beat

[markC]

24 ga. might be a bit heavy, try 27 . Just my opinion. At any rate, with the material cost, I don't think you can go wrong. The thinner the gauge, the more detail and presence. The heavier the gauge, the more bottom end. But, too much bass is a bad thing. Isn't it?

[beat]

True,
The rig I have the silvers on was a little short on the low end so it was a good compromise in my case. If you have been happy with your bass thus far, I'd go thinner too.

[Tonto Yoder]

Don't know how this stacks up against the Ven Haus recipe, sonically or financially, but might be interesting--

http://www.homegrownaudio.com/diy_supplies.htm
There are two pdf's about assembly, so even if someone doesn't use Homegrown material, it might be worth checking out.

Chimera labs is another silver-oriented site about which I've heard good things.

[EProvenzano]

I'd like to second ...or third, where ever we are...the CVH IC's.

Jack I have some construction pics in my gallery here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=15

...someone please teach me how to add a nice short link to my 'gallery'. That long link looks like crap.

Any wayz...the CVH are very very nice cables. I've made 3 pair and I can't ever justify spending more for boutique wires. I've compared these IC's to a few Cardas offerings ranging from 200-600. The CVH are every bit as good in all arenas. I have not compared them to any of the popular brands on this forum tho.
I wonder if Nikko is still around here. I built him a pair of CVH cables and I know he also owns a pair of Superlatives.

Nathan you kill me man! Keep it up!
For the most part I agree with your opinions on cable marketing and the product's value. I do, however, think that you could spend a little more than a hundred bucks by buying quality wire, like 99.99 silver, and quality plugs like Eichmanns; I have noticed appreciable differences between the average parts and the high quality parts.

On a related note, if you choose to use the Eichmann plugs in combination with the CVH recipe, be careful to make neat, strong solder joints. The CVH design, with fine silver, is a fragile recipe. That, coupled with a fragile plug, like the Eichmann IMO, demands a well made conection with support.

BR,
EP

[nathanm]

EP - Well, the exact figures are merely an adjunct to the point I was making, but yes decent parts are obviously a good thing. With a little time and effort it's easy to imitate or surpass any commercial cable product selling for ridiculous sums without blowing your entire paycheck on the damn thing.  I am working on a cable design myself, and I can say without fear of contradiction that it will be one the best audio cables in the whole world.

[KevinW]

Nathan,
If you want to see ridiculous, you should see the cables in my system now.  I spent yesterday at Jena Labs, and returned home with a 3' loaner pair of Dreamdancers.  That's a 19 strand of 18ga. ultrawire per side RCA cable retailing for $8k.

I put it into my system, was immediately impressed with a huge increase in sweetness, resolution and detail.  But keep in mind that "huge" is a highly relative term.  I personally believe that my system is revealing enough to actually be able to hear the improvement, but that the relative size of that improvement is highly dependent upon the quality of the entire system as a whole.  I know for a fact that my system is not even close to good enough to make the dreamdancers a cost effective upgrade. But there are many people who do, and have the money to burn. Jena Labs sells plenty of these cables, and it takes several days to make one pair.

You can be as adamant as you want in stating that expensive cables make no difference... to you.  I'm certain you are 100% correct, and I do not seek to dispute you in any way. Your ears are your ears, not anyone else's.  By the same logic, there are others who believe exactly the opposite, and have developed this belief after logical testing and comparison with their own ears.

Of course, the key element that is sometimes overlooked in cable discussions, is whether a certain level of cable is worthy of a particular system and/or pocketbook.  Finding this information is a challenge without in-home demos. I also think it's time for a series of extremely rigorous and scientific tests on this subject        

ps. if there's any volunteers in Portland who want to be a test subject, let me know

[nathanm]

Perhaps people with more money than brains deserve to be swindled.

[jackman]

Perhaps people with more money than brains deserve to be swindled.

Coming from the guy who purchased nOrh Pyramids...

Just kidding....

J

[audiojerry]

If you want to see ridiculous, you should see the cables in my system now. I spent yesterday at Jena Labs, and returned home with a 3' loaner pair of Dreamdancers. That's a 19 strand of 18ga. ultrawire per side RCA cable retailing for $8k.

As soon as your done, you can send them my way. I promise to be impartial  

[markC]

I believe what Kevin says makes sense: You probably can hear the difference an ultra dollar cable makes in an ultra dollar system.... I'll never know.  But, for most of us on a real world budget, with real world  rigs, I believe that diy with the best quality parts one can afford is the way to go.

[JohnR]

If anyone wants to spend $8000 US on a cable, I suggest you send it to me instead so I can buy a new car, and in return I will send you a framed certificate of appreciation, signed by me. Unlike those common-as-dirt $8000 interconnects, this certificate will be the only one in the world, a true collector's item.

But seriously [cough], how much are the electronics between the cables supposed to be worth to make 8k on a cable make any sense? It would be a lot cheaper to have someone rip your equipment apart and house it all in a new chassis without any cables at all!

Or are good cables actually better than no cables?

[nathanm]

That's hifi propaganda concept #1 - justify absurdly overpriced crap by suggesting that buying even more absurdly overpriced crap is the only way to 'realize the potential'.  The idea that "oh gee I don't think my system will be able to appreciate an 8000 dollar cable" is preposterous.  You'd get a better return on your money if you invested 8 grand in Enron stock right about now.  

Gotta love the design "concept" - just keep adding another wire on the weave and that'll make it better.  Jena Labs must have great security systems to make sure no employees sneak out with any copper shavings stuck to the sides of their socks - that shit's worth more than gold!

Sure, send JohnR your 8 grand if you want, but if you send it to ME I guarantee my certificate will be printed on 100% lingin-free archival rag stock, not that crummy newspaper stock he uses!

[KevinW]

But seriously [cough], how much are the electronics between the cables supposed to be worth to make 8k on a cable make any sense? It would be a lot cheaper to have someone rip your equipment apar ...

John, How about a wild-assed-guess of 50k for speakers, amp, and source?  From what Jennifer has told me, the customers are cost-no-object kind of people. Must be nice...  

I've spent a little bit of time experimenting with cables today... and my initial results are that there is a noticeable difference with the 8k cables.  Harmonic details are richer, the music is more natural sounding, and there's much more resolution between instruments and voices.  This was compared to the 1k Symphony with only seven strands of copper, which is a VERY good interconnect.  

My system is very revealing for the budget.  The Jordan drivers are harmonically very rich and detailed, as you should know. Using my older pair of Acoustic Reality Tetras, which uses Scanspeak Revelators, the difference between cables is not as dramatic.  I'm certain that a much more expensive and revealing speaker would magnify the differences between cables and thus make the good stuff even more worth the money.

If my girlfriend hadn't stolen my digital camera, I would post some photos to show just how nutzo these cables are...  Terminating 19 strands of 18ga  into a single RCA aint easy.

[JohnR]

John, How about a wild-assed-guess of 50k for speakers, amp, and source

You'll need at least two pairs of ICs and a set of speaker cables, so that's half your budget already. Leaving a little over 6k each for source, preamp, amp, and speakers.

Pity you have to put the electronics in there, if you didn't you could spend even more on the cables.

My system is very revealing for the budget.

Not any more!!!

[KevinW]

You'll need at least two pairs of ICs and a set of speaker cables, so that's half your budget already. Leaving a little over 6k each for source, preamp, amp, and speakers.

Yeah, except for the little detail of WAG's having at least a 50% error margin.

Pity you have to put the electronics in there, if you didn't you could spend even more on the cables.

Hey, now you've really got your thinking cap on!  If being an audiophile is all about the gear, then the concept of a fully assembled and functioning system is not that important.  You know all about that, right?

My system is very revealing for the budget.

Not any more!!!

[/quote]

Hah, just wait until my next couple of designs come to fruition.  

[JohnR]

Hehh heh, very good

What's a WAG, oh statistical scientist?

[avahifi]

I am amazed at the priorities around here.  A bunch of you guys get together for a serious listening session involving our Biro loudspeakers and that draws 400+ hits and 7 responses.

The talk turns to speaker wires and that draws 1100+ hits and 37 responses so far.

Whats important when you guys buy cars?  Hood ornaments?  Fan belts?  Oh yes, of course, I forgot, its the wire used between the car radio and the speakers in the doors.  What do you do when it gets so heavy you can't open the car doors?

Geeze.

Frank Van Alstine

[JohnR]

Hey, there's not much you can say about a speaker you've never seen or heard...

Arguing about cables, on the other hand... now there's endless entertainment

But seriously, why don't you liven the thread up a bit then? What are your comments on the session?

[Edit: I'd just like to add, by the way, that the number of hits and responses on a message board such as this isn't much of an indication of how seriously anyone takes it... after all, remember the http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=3613">tweaking thread?... ]